invacar LightBulbFun's Invacar & general ramble thread, index on page 1, survivors lists on Pages 24/134 & AdgeCutler's Invacar Mk12 Restoration from Page 186 onwards, still harping on...

[High Jetter]

Fairly sure my old valve mixer amp has that sort of mains input socket, if that's of any help.

[egg]

7 hours ago, Pigeonator said:

Anyway any help would be appreciated and I can pass the parts /info onto the new owner if it sells. 

Hello! Welcome. @AdgeCutlerhas pretty much brought his MK12 back from the dead, and may be able to help with information as to any return of your vehicle back to stock spec. A new chassis is probably not beyond the pale. Did yours have much of the underpinnings left when you dug it out?

[LightBulbFun]

7 hours ago, Pigeonator said:

Hello, I'm looking for any Thundersley Invacar Mk12 bits, preferably a chassis (any condition) or if not bits of a chassis, particularly the front suspension set up.

As an explanation I have the Mk12 imposter on ebay at the moment and 12 years ago dug it out of a field where it sat for 35 years. I started (with limited funds and space) with the damaged fibreglass body and a few odds and ends but they seemed rare then and was told by the prominent enthusiasts any parts were unobtainable so I went the Reliant route... which turned out easier than expected. 

Anyway any help would be appreciated and I can pass the parts /info onto the new owner if it sells. 

Ps I owned this briefly about 15 years ago, I sorted out the mechanicals and got it roadworthy again (minus the spoiler) A chap from Switzerland bought it and sent 2 blokes from Poland in a 7 1/2 ton wagon to collect it. With no planks! We ended up taking the wagons wood floor up to make a ramp then flipped a coin to see who would drive it up. I lost. 

I guess the important question here is what do you have left of the original Invacar Mk12B's chassis? only 4 (including yours) are known to still survive full stop, so even detailed pictures are very scarce  sadly, certainly no spare rolling chassis sadly!

but a lot of the component bits are just all off the shelf parts bin parts mostly, so im not sure why you where told parts where unobtainable? thats a bit odd! any-who how many ancillary bits do you still have, stuff like the steering control/tiller arm, was that missing when you got the car?

just trying to gauge a picture of how much the original car is still floating about, as I do know this ones chassis number, if the orignial chassis/under pinnings can be restored/reinstated, then I can easily sort out its identity and return it to its original registration mark etc  

 

Awesome to hear you owned the santa-pod car for a time, and interesting to hear it did indeed go to Switzerland, I had heard such, but I was only aware of 2 Blue Model 70's over there not any black ones, either it got restored, or i have yet to find it again!

On 11/01/2019 at 10:03, LightBulbFun said:

speaking of Rough

 

came across this Model 70 while doing some more sleuthing, it looks like the Drag Car pictured previously in this thread was for sale at some point

 

https://www.worthpoint.com/worthopedia/ac-invacar-model-70-reliant-bond-271349439

 

 

wonder what became of it, glad to see the roof was not thrown out at least.

 

(that website seems to have archived quite a few past Model 70 ebay listings, but annoyingly hide all the details behind a paywall)

you did not happen grab its identity/chassis number before you sold it did you? as you can see I have been chasing it up since Page 9!

 

 

2 hours ago, brummiejon said:

Bit of a disappointment today….. thought I’d found the correct plug for a lead to connect the onboard charger for Flo today…. Nah…. Nearly but the pin diameter on the power port are larger than the pin diameters on the plug…. Also I hadn’t noticed that the location groove on the plug is half round and female…..  what I need is a location groove as a square male…… back to the drawing board….. 

 

 

thats a 3 pin Bulgin connector, Tippen Delta's also used them  

there do seem to be a few different keying/variants of them out there, but im sure something can be found without too much faff

in a quick search I have found a few with the correct keying at least  example https://mullard.org/collections/components-plugs-sockets/products/bulgin-3-pin-power-lead-comprising-of-22mm-nose-dia-plug-1-5m-lead-plug-top-fitted-with-3a-5a-fuse-for-leak-tl12-1-quad-esl-57

 

[High Jetter]

17 minutes ago, LightBulbFun said:

3 pin Bulgin connector

That's the name I couldn't remember! I think this is the right size, from Rapid electronics, @brummiejon:

https://www.rapidonline.com/bulgin-px0646-3-pole-socket-and-strain-relief-23-1210

[brummiejon]

52 minutes ago, LightBulbFun said:

I guess the important question here is what do you have left of the original Invacar Mk12B's chassis? only 4 (including yours) are known to still survive full stop, so even detailed pictures are very scarce  sadly, certainly no spare rolling chassis sadly!

but a lot of the component bits are just all off the shelf parts bin parts mostly, so im not sure why you where told parts where unobtainable? thats a bit odd! any-who how many ancillary bits do you still have, stuff like the steering control/tiller arm, was that missing when you got the car?

just trying to gauge a picture of how much the original car is still floating about, as I do know this ones chassis number, if the orignial chassis/under pinnings can be restored/reinstated, then I can easily sort out its identity and return it to its original registration mark etc  

 

Awesome to hear you owned the santa-pod car for a time, and interesting to hear it did indeed go to Switzerland, I had heard such, but I was only aware of 2 Blue Model 70's over there not any black ones, either it got restored, or i have yet to find it again!

you did not happen grab its identity/chassis number before you sold it did you? as you can see I have been chasing it up since Page 9!

 

 

 

thats a 3 pin Bulgin connector, Tippen Delta's also used them  

there do seem to be a few different keying/variants of them out there, but im sure something can be found without too much faff

in a quick search I have found a few with the correct keying at least  example https://mullard.org/collections/components-plugs-sockets/products/bulgin-3-pin-power-lead-comprising-of-22mm-nose-dia-plug-1-5m-lead-plug-top-fitted-with-3a-5a-fuse-for-leak-tl12-1-quad-esl-57

 

Yes…. I didn’t realise how many different variants of the Bulgin plugs there were…. Now I know I’m looking for a Bulgin SA1862….. or the SA 2111 would also fit….. thanks for this forum, it’s great to connect to people who care about what I’m trying to do….

[brummiejon]

43 minutes ago, High Jetter said:

That's the name I couldn't remember! I think this is the right size, from Rapid electronics, @brummiejon:

https://www.rapidonline.com/bulgin-px0646-3-pole-socket-and-strain-relief-23-1210

It’s so easy to get it wrong…. This is the type I bought that doesn’t fit…. It’s an SA1862 I’m after…. 

[brummiejon]

This is the resource I found to get the correct part number in case it’s useful to others 

http://electrojumble.org.uk/DATA3/BulginPlugs.pdf

[Pigeonator]

No underpinnings unfortunately. The soil was 2" above the floor and once dug around we lifted it with a fork lift and the front and rear chassis section remained in the ground. I salvaged the trailing arms and hubs and some chassis stays from the engine bay which are on LKE now. ICR'd Stuart was one of the 3 people to tell me it'd be like finding a needle in a haystack trying to get a chassis. I remember carrying it on 2 wheelbarrows and planks with friends to get it to storage where it was lashed up to look more or less complete to obtain an ID. 

It was quite a while later when I went back to the place to ask about spares, Pye Motors of Lancaster who had the service contract for the invalid carriages, and they gave me an engine, by which time I'd already acquired a Reliant chassis and had the motorcycle engine bolted in. 

Also at Pye's there were 2 1950's AC Acedes, alloy bodied. I don't know what happened to those. 

No details of the black Model 70 sorry, it was blue underneath and it was depressingly difficult trying to remove the black paint. I do remember the buyer was a Haflinger (?) enthusiast which you probably know has the same engine. 

SO.... If there are no chassis' around do you know of any factory drawings? 

 

Ps LBF... I wanted LKE to look as standard as possible but the wheelbase is unavoidably 3" longer, hence the grill and bumper to try and disguise the fact. 

Thanks for your help

 

 

[bobdisk]

Bulgin,  thats a name from the past! I think some British made domestic hi-fi and other domestic equipment of the 60s/70s used.

https://www.bulgin.com/products/pub/media/import/attachments/Circular_Power_Connectors.pdf 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/b/Quad-33-303/14970/bn_7023502361

The smaller ones are rated at 2A for the hi-fi. The bigger pins could be 5A or so. 

[AdgeCutler]

On 2/15/2023 at 2:03 PM, Zelandeth said:

In case you wind up looking for a fuse box replacement that doesn't have horribly tarnished terminals, they're not horrifically expensive.

Link.

Thanks Zel, I was hoping to find an old one still with genuine Lucas fuses. Today that happened albeit all fuses are 35a, still on the lookout for some 25a.

[LightBulbFun]

3 hours ago, AdgeCutler said:

Thanks Zel, I was hoping to find an old one still with genuine Lucas fuses. Today that happened albeit all fuses are 35a, still on the lookout for some 25a.

still a very cool find! I have to wonder a fair number of fuses like this get replaced because their terminals had gone crusty, rather then actually blowing/failing

given that these fuses are a bit unusual and finding good originals especially is not super easy, I wonder how hard it would be to clean up the terminals on the fuses themselves and maybe even re-electroplate them if they where plated in the first place that is!

just something I was thinking about the other day, with  Phil's electroplating exploits in mind LOL

 

speaking of Brian 

I noticed he has been papped for the first couple times at the show you took him too recently, 

https://www.facebook.com/ernie.horler/posts/pfbid02T5nSnwWtJwG9F7T7Mijx1hz1EHEKhvvuxfY7xRiscjUL9SL7bJKCAcM9iWDpLccDl

https://www.flickr.com/photos/birdrock1/52711484857/

wonder when he will get papped out and about  

[AdgeCutler]

3 hours ago, LightBulbFun said:

still a very cool find! I have to wonder a fair number of fuses like this get replaced because their terminals had gone crusty, rather then actually blowing/failing

given that these fuses are a bit unusual and finding good originals especially is not super easy, I wonder how hard it would be to clean up the terminals on the fuses themselves and maybe even re-electroplate them if they where plated in the first place that is!

just something I was thinking about the other day, with  Phil's electroplating exploits in mind LOL

 

speaking of Brian 

I noticed he has been papped for the first couple times at the show you took him too recently, 

https://www.facebook.com/ernie.horler/posts/pfbid02T5nSnwWtJwG9F7T7Mijx1hz1EHEKhvvuxfY7xRiscjUL9SL7bJKCAcM9iWDpLccDl

https://www.flickr.com/photos/birdrock1/52711484857/

wonder when he will get papped out and about  

That fusebox and fuses were pretty crusty. The fuses clean up pretty easily on the wire wheel on the bench grinder, obviously with care not only for the fuses but also fingers.

Quite funny to see Brians first photos that hadn't been taken by myself or a friend. He did gain a lot of attention and it was only a small gathering.

[LightBulbFun]

On 11/03/2023 at 18:33, Pigeonator said:

No underpinnings unfortunately. The soil was 2" above the floor and once dug around we lifted it with a fork lift and the front and rear chassis section remained in the ground. I salvaged the trailing arms and hubs and some chassis stays from the engine bay which are on LKE now. ICR'd Stuart was one of the 3 people to tell me it'd be like finding a needle in a haystack trying to get a chassis. I remember carrying it on 2 wheelbarrows and planks with friends to get it to storage where it was lashed up to look more or less complete to obtain an ID. 

It was quite a while later when I went back to the place to ask about spares, Pye Motors of Lancaster who had the service contract for the invalid carriages, and they gave me an engine, by which time I'd already acquired a Reliant chassis and had the motorcycle engine bolted in. 

Also at Pye's there were 2 1950's AC Acedes, alloy bodied. I don't know what happened to those. 

No details of the black Model 70 sorry, it was blue underneath and it was depressingly difficult trying to remove the black paint. I do remember the buyer was a Haflinger (?) enthusiast which you probably know has the same engine. 

SO.... If there are no chassis' around do you know of any factory drawings? 

 

Ps LBF... I wanted LKE to look as standard as possible but the wheelbase is unavoidably 3" longer, hence the grill and bumper to try and disguise the fact. 

Thanks for your help

 

 

this got me thinking, this is not the same Mk12 is it?

On 31/08/2019 at 23:29, LightBulbFun said:

 

and a Forlorn Mk12, this photo is more recent I think (From a 2011 FB post) so I wonder if its still there, just notice there's a wheel chair folded up inside still!

 

 

 

on the unearthing of it did you manage to save the chassis sections that remained in the ground? and where any of the main controls saved? did it have an engine/running gear at all?)

just trying to put together a picture of how much was present on the car when you found it, and how much still exists/was saved  

[LightBulbFun]

XPD805 is on eBay for a 2nd time, 3rd time for sale in general including the Auction

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/225481714110

someone here please give it a good home! I would genuinely bid for it, but I literally have nowhere to stash it sadly!

would be fantastic for local trips pootling to the local shops and back, where REV would not get a chance to warm up properly...

 

not sure why the seller thinks it was registered in 1956? May 1955 was when it was registered

still a very late machine and the latest known survivor (I think about 7 machines from the end of Ministry Argson production, looking at what chassis number data I have been able to find over time researching these machines)

[brummiejon]

2 hours ago, LightBulbFun said:

XPD805 is on eBay for a 2nd time, 3rd time for sale in general including the Auction

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/225481714110

someone here please give it a good home! I would genuine bid for it, but I literally have nowhere to stash it sadly!

would be fantastic for local trips pootling to the local shops and back, where REV would not get a chance to warm up properly...

 

not sure why the seller thinks it was registered in 1956? May 1955 was when it was registered

still a very late machine and the latest known survivor (I think about 7 machines from the end of Ministry Argson production, looking at what chassis number data I have been able to find over time researching these machines)

I’ve just spotted this….  Wasn’t sure if it was the same one….

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/225481714110?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-127632-2357-0&ssspo=IoIucGFrQGG&sssrc=2349624&ssuid=BiNzBpnaQa6&var=&widget_ver=artemis&media=COPY

hope someone gives it a good home because I don’t have the room or the funds 

[LightBulbFun]

48 minutes ago, brummiejon said:

I’ve just spotted this….  Wasn’t sure if it was the same one….

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/225481714110?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-127632-2357-0&ssspo=IoIucGFrQGG&sssrc=2349624&ssuid=BiNzBpnaQa6&var=&widget_ver=artemis&media=COPY

hope someone gives it a good home because I don’t have the room or the funds 

seems to be the day for Argsons! OPE79 not one that I recognise! an earlier private machine, pre-deluxe, like Flo  

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/134491198055

I recognise the seller tho, he has had a few older Carriages over the past few years, Argsons and Hardings

[Mrs6C]

There's a third Argson about also... it is being converted from having its original Villiers engine to electric and the engine is up for sale... or so the seller claims...

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/265615210427

[LightBulbFun]

2 minutes ago, Mrs6C said:

There's a third Argson about also... it is being converted from having its original Villiers engine to electric and the engine is up for sale... or so the seller claims...

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/265615210427

indeed I have been aware of that for little bit now (although I am not sure which it is but with a 98cc engine its gonna be an early one) but dont think I have posted about it

you know the saying "if you dont have anything nice to say..." LOL

 

I just dont get it! with an Argson of all things, where Electric ones where a key part of their model range already, so why convert a nice original and rarer Petrol one to electric?

would be better for preservation sake to just go out and get an Electric one, and restore said electric one to its former glory

 

[egg]

blimey, that Villiers is smoll!

[brummiejon]

44 minutes ago, LightBulbFun said:

seems to be the day for Argsons! OPE79 not one that I recognise! an earlier private machine, pre-deluxe, like Flo  

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/134491198055

I recognise the seller tho, he has had a few older Carriages over the past few years, Argsons and Hardings

I’d love that one…… twins

[AdgeCutler]

44 minutes ago, LightBulbFun said:

seems to be the day for Argsons! OPE79 not one that I recognise! an earlier private machine, pre-deluxe, like Flo  

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/134491198055

Just checked the sellers other items and found something I've been looking around for for a long while. Another childhood memory, again from my grandparents house but this time it was in the shed not down the road (as the Invacar was). In that shed was a derelict Vincent Firefly that my grand Dad would use as transport to get to his steam roller back when he was a driver for the council, sadly it was disposed of after my grandmother died.

[brummiejon]

1 minute ago, AdgeCutler said:

Just checked the sellers other items and found something I've been looking around for for a long while. Another childhood memory, again from my grandparents house but this time it was in the shed not down the road (as the Invacar was). In that shed was a derelict Vincent Firefly that my grand Dad would use as transport to get to his steam roller back when he was a driver for the council, sadly it was disposed of after my grandmother died.

Oh O…. Lock up your wallet

[AdgeCutler]

10 minutes ago, brummiejon said:

Oh O…. Lock up your wallet

Indeed, I was looking more at the £200 region! Grand Dads one went in a skip I believe.

[High Jetter]

Happy to contribute if my no.s come up this week. Don't hold your breaths tho. .

[LightBulbFun]

On 15/03/2023 at 20:20, LightBulbFun said:

I recognise the seller tho, he has had a few older Carriages over the past few years, Argsons and Hardings

speak of the devil! the Coca-Cola Harding is Back up for sale *again* LOL

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/134492684975

On 21/12/2020 at 13:55, LightBulbFun said:

just noticed the Harding https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/133412512372

thats been for sale on ebay for yonks now

has been updated at some point with a neat little video of it in action  

I love the noise it makes  (thats true of any old electric vehicle really!)

(also im pretty sure that thumbnail with the harding and that helmet is next to the word incongruous in the dictionary LOL)

it makes for a lovely sight on eBay atm tho! really is like buses 3 at once etc! take your pick! (ill take the bottom one please!)

[LightBulbFun]

On 09/03/2021 at 18:47, Crackers said:

On 09/03/2021 at 12:56, LightBulbFun said:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/114718672663

Cheap, Rusty but mostly complete Electric Stanley Argson anyone? going by the Registration its a Private Non ministry example  

I am kicking myself for actually replying to this thread, but at least I'm not directly discussing Inv*c*rs.

Anyway.

I spend most of my summer weekends playing at a private miniature railway, where one of the petrol-electric locomotives has the speed controller lifted out of one of those things, but with a shovel handle attached to make it shorter. Works well, to be fair. Probably coming off it soon though if we convert it to a battery loco.

 

On 25/07/2021 at 17:24, Crackers said:

I know you had been asking for some photos of this, so while rain stops play at the miniature railway I've taken a couple. 

all the Argsons reminds me, as i keep forgetting to post this, but a while back I managed to Slueth up this nice old video 

 

and I have to wonder/ask its not the same Locomotive is it? or did multiple people have the same idea of use the speed control out of an Argson?  

[Crackers]

11 hours ago, LightBulbFun said:

 

all the Argsons reminds me, as i keep forgetting to post this, but a while back I managed to Slueth up this nice old video 

 

and I have to wonder/ask its not the same Locomotive is it? or did multiple people have the same idea of use the speed control out of an Argson?  

Well found, I was sent the same video a while ago and it is indeed the same vehicle, still residing at Furnace. In its current state it is heavily modified running off a petrol generator to run the motor, but that generator is very unhealthy and we're looking at restoring the vehicle and putting it back to battery power as designed. 

Unfortunately the whereabouts of the LMS 10000 also in the video is unknown, it looks beastly. 

[Mrs6C]

Have you seen this little film: 'Elegy for the Elswick Envoy'? The lady concerned used to have a Tippen Delta and then an Invacar, which she said that she took to the Alps...

 

[RayMK]

38 minutes ago, Mrs6C said:

Have you seen this little film: 'Elegy for the Elswick Envoy'? The lady concerned used to have a Tippen Delta and then an Invacar, which she said that she took to the Alps...

 

A lovely story.  Thanks for posting it.

[LightBulbFun]

On 18/03/2023 at 22:24, Mrs6C said:

Have you seen this little film: 'Elegy for the Elswick Envoy'? The lady concerned used to have a Tippen Delta and then an Invacar, which she said that she took to the Alps...

 

as @RayMK thats a lovely little film! I had seen an excerpt from it/a short version of it a good few years ago, and somewhere on the internet, maybe RUMCars? is a period thread talking about it, as it happened in period which was an interesting read! 

indeed theres a surprising number stories/mentions of Invacars being taken abroad, France, the Netherlands, even heard of someone taking a Villiers machine to Spain and back! (but sadly I dont much in the way of details for these trips, there just accounts quickly mentioned in comment sections etc)

and the Ministry had special previsions put in place to for people who did a lot of annual millage in their Model 70's for example in the 1980's if you did more then 6000 miles a year you got priority access to limited supply of the new CVT Pulleys the ministry had managed to source!

 

but I had never seen the full shoot before! and was quite awesome to see inside the Science museum like that! a lot of faces I have not seen in a long time so to speak! 

as I mentioned in another thread, the Invacar New Era DJN944 thats shown and is talked about as one of the first wheel-aboard vehicles (in-fact I believe the Invacar New Era was the first vehicle that could be driven from a wheel chair, so not one of the first, but thee first!)

very much has a story of its own and was donated to the museum itself under similar circumstances  in-fact its very interesting with how its both a progression on the same theme and history repeating itself, with how the Invacar New Era was replaced by a Custom built A series vehicle, and then 20~ years later, a Custom built A series vehicle is replaced by a Renault!

 

 

also this was quite a weird sense of Deja veu! 

*sounds of me rummaging around in my archives* 

found it here many years ago, have wondered about it from time to time of course being an Unknown but hopefully still surviving Model 70! so very curious she has those photos!

https://www.navy-net.co.uk/community/threads/car-thread.52616/page-2#post-897416