Project Mercedes Benz - W123 230E & W124 200E - Both happy and working ok

[Peter C]

Since replacing the water pump back in June the engine has been running with just water in the cooling system.

 

I did some research on the internet to find out what antifreeze is best for the 200E and to shop around to get the BEST DEAL. Read more here:

 

http://autoshite.com/topic/33124-what-antifreeze-do-you-recommend-and-where-from/

 

Thank you to everyone who contributed.

 

In the end I visited my local ECP and bought 5l of this for £16.99.

 

 

I drained the contents of the cooling system and gave it a flush.

 

 

With the cooling system bled, which took about half an hour, job done. The rain that was due this afternoon came at 10am so most of the action took place under cover.

 

[Peter C]

I’ve never been to the Newark Autojumble before so I figured it was time for a day trip.

 

Don’t forget to top up the fuel and check all fluids before a long trip.

 

 

M40 eastbound heading towards the M25. Horrendous driving conditions!

 

 

On the A1 heading north. This looks promising.

 

 

But this doesn’t! I can’t remember the last time I checked the engine oil level.

 

 

Contrary to the fact that it’s grim up north, the sun came out north of Peterborough.

 

 

Upon arrival in Newark I checked the oil level. Yep, the little light was telling the truth. Better get some oil for the journey home.

 

 

Another disappointing event. The autojumble wasn’t that big, most of the stalls had motorcycle related tat and within an hour of my arrival a lot of sellers had packed up and left. Something I said?

 

I did get a W201 wheeltrim for a fiver, the same design and size as the W124 wheeltrim but it doesn’t have the chrome ring around the edge. It’s still a useful spare in case I lose any of mine.

 

 

Oil topped up, purchased at the autojumble for a fiver.

 

 

The journey home was uneventful, the 200E is very happy cruising at 70-80MPH and my lack of attention to the engine oil level issue aside, we clocked up a very happy near 300 miles.

 

[skattrd]

Verdict - Newark autojumble not worth the trip?

 

I live quite close to Newark and have never been to the autojumble. I really don't see why I should pay to go in to look at people selling stuff and probably won't find the bits I'm after.

[Guest Conan]

I don't know if anyone already pointed out but shouldn't the car run slightly hotter? My M111 used to run at 78-79c with colder 71c Thermostat and that had horrendous fuel economy. After putting on original spec thermostat and the car running at 82-87c I gained about 4-5mpg. There's nothing wrong with cold running engine other than increased fuel economy and slight wear, of course.

 

I always reckoned that people put 71c thermostat on when the car has cooling issue, or if they're that much of a cheapskate they even just punch the thermostat through!

[Peter C]

Verdict - Newark autojumble not worth the trip?

 

I live quite close to Newark and have never been to the autojumble. I really don't see why I should pay to go in to look at people selling stuff and probably won't find the bits I'm after.

On a warm summers day, with the field full and if you get there early enough, it’s probably worth going. On a day like today it was pants.

[Peter C]

I don't know if anyone already pointed out but shouldn't the car run slightly hotter? My M111 used to run at 78-79c with colder 71c Thermostat and that had horrendous fuel economy. After putting on original spec thermostat and the car running at 82-87c I gained about 4-5mpg. There's nothing wrong with cold running engine other than increased fuel economy and slight wear, of course.

 

I always reckoned that people put 71c thermostat on when the car has cooling issue, or if they're that much of a cheapskate they even just punch the thermostat through!

Around town the engine will reach approx 86 degrees but on a 60MPH+ run it’s over cooling. I need to investigate this further.

[BorniteIdentity]

Around town the engine will reach approx 86 degrees but on a 60MPH+ run it’s over cooling. I need to investigate this further.

 

From memory - there are two thermostats.  a 78 and an 82.  (I seem to remember this when I had my old 190e totally overhauled).  Worth investigating further - it might be bust, but it might also be on the way out.

[Peter C]

From memory - there are two thermostats. a 78 and an 82. (I seem to remember this when I had my old 190e totally overhauled). Worth investigating further - it might be bust, but it might also be on the way out.

I replaced the thermostat a couple of months ago so hopefully it hasn’t failed already. I shall investigate and report back.

[The Reverend Bluejeans]

Newank autojumble hasn’t been any good for years. If you want an overpriced NOS wing for a Riley 45/76 or Austin Atrocious maybe but for regular stuff, no.

[Guest Conan]

I replaced the thermostat a couple of months ago so hopefully it hasn’t failed already. I shall investigate and report back.

 

I assume it was some sort of aftermarket thermostat? They're a bit hit and miss but there doesn't appear to be any issue other than running slightly cold on motorway so it could indeed be just colder thermostat.

 

On my M111, when I drive on motorway the temperature stay at slightly above 80c, in the city it's about 84-86c, and only once in my ownership that it got up to 90c+ (it was a particularly hot day in stopped traffic). Not even a near vertical grade with constant first gear made it went above 87c. Mind you, my mechanic said that as long as it doesn't go over the mark between 80 and 120 it's fine. (That's 100c). Before I did the thermostat it never went above 80c no matter how much I caned it.

 

From what I've heard, older M102 and M103 does run slightly hotter than M111 and M104. With more issue in heavy traffic. On M111 there are 2 type of thermostat, 71c and 87c. Some creative people modified BMW thermostat and have 82c as an intermediate option. I'm sure similar choice is offered with M102 thermostat. It would be written on the thermo plate itself anyway.

[Peter C]

My brother in law is on holiday in Cyprus and earlier today he caught a cab.

 

 

Apparently it is in really good condition but it’s hiding a secret.

 

 

That’s about 600k miles. It’s probably ready for the same again!

[Mally]

On a warm summers day, with the field full and if you get there early enough, it’s probably worth going. On a day like today it was pants.

 

I used to be a regular at Newark, gone downhill a bit since the Autojumble was taken over by new owners.

The stallholders do watch the weather, as much is outdoors. Area to the right as you go in tends to be Bikes.

Starts 10am £7, but you can get in between 8am and 10am for £10. 

All the bargains have gone before 10am, early customers (me) and other Stallholders snap them up.

You used to get free admission, drive your car in, with a Classic Car, probably still do, but only at 10am and different entrance to the punters.

[Peter C]

I haven’t updated this thread for a while mostly because life and holidays have taken precedence but also because I’ve clocked up approx 1,500 fun and trouble free miles in the 200E since my last post.

I took advantage of the ECP Christmas sale and bought some oil filters for my Mercs and a cam cover gasket for the 200E.

There was evidence of oil seeping past the old gasket in a couple of places.





With the cam cover removed I noted the clean valve gear and unworn cam. Nice! Obviously this engine has benefited from regular oil changes.



Fortunately the old gasket came away unharmed as the replacement part was clearly not the right one. The curved part of the gasket should be the same as the opposite end. How unlike ECP to provide the wrong part (even though the label on the packaging suggested the gasket was the right one for my engine).



Nothing to see here, the underside of the cam cover was nice and clean.



I applied some silicone gasket sealant, at least I thought I did. I got this far before I realised that I was smearing body filler hardener instead of silicone sealant. What a plonker!



Once I removed the hardener I applied the silicone sealant.



Everything went back together without any problems. Somehow I managed to break the top of the dipstick but fortunately I had a spare. I also replaced the oil filler cap with a newer one, which probably has a stronger spring and fresher seal.

 

All in all I spent two hours getting my hands filthy and made no progress whatsoever. 

I changed the thermostat back in the summer but the engine has always run cool. Since fitting a piece of plastic that covers 2/3 of the front of the radiator the engine temperature stays at approx 80 deg C, which is not ideal when the thermostat should open at 87 deg C. Guess where I got the thermostat from. ECP. Say no more.

[richardmorris]

I bought a new thermostat from Mercedes for my 320 last year. It was £22ish I think complete with o ring seal. Made a huge improvement to the stability of the temperature gauge ( and presumably the actual temp). Never had an ECP experience that was correct the first time, so gave up on them years ago.

 

With a bit of a recommendation- Mercedes Benz of Newcastle have an eBay account and are very helpful listing parts specifically for you to buy. I asked about roll bar bushes they had for sale, but they weren’t the right ones- they asked for my vin number and listed the correct ones for me to buy. Free postage and next day delivery too!

[Peter C]

Hughes of Beaconsfield, one of the most renowned MB dealers in the country, are walking distance from my house. I have no excuse not to start getting my parts from them.

[omegod]

Forgive me for saying but that looks rather a lot of sealant on there

[Peter C]

Forgive me for saying but that looks rather a lot of sealant on there

How much would you recommend?

[Kringle]

Just a continuous bead isn't it? Then it spreads sufficiently under compression.

[Peter C]

Just a continuous bead isn't it? Then it spreads sufficiently under compression.

I applied a continuous bead but before refitting the gasket I squished the sealant down with my finger to ensure that the gasket definitely ends up sitting on top of it.

[Peter C]

I have already enquired about potential causes of crunchy gear changes here:

 

http://autoshite.com/topic/33764-gear-change-issue-question-faulty-synchro/?hl=w124+gear+change

 

Today I investigated the cause of a stiff change from neutral into first. Whilst every other gear goes in ok, first often baulks, regardless whether the engine is hot or cold.

 

Underneath the selector rods and bushes look fine.

 

 

 

And up top there’s nothing to see.

 

 

Could there be something amiss inside the gearbox?

 

A DIY gearbox oil change on the drive is not an option, time to pay my old mechanic a visit.

[320touring]

If ever there were a car in need of a manual to auto swap..

 

Merc manuals were never the greatest in my experience.

 

I think an oil change would be a good start - and get the mechanic to check that the levers engage properly

[Peter C]

The 200E’s engine was coated with decades of oil, muck and neglect. It needed cleaning for three reasons:

 

1. The MoT tester would probably flag up the mess come May’s test.

2. After a run there was an oily smell coming from under the bonnet.

3. Aesthetics.

 

Pre-wash photos:

 

 

 

 

 

With the sump guard removed the underside of the engine looked grim.

 

 

 

The sump guard was also filthy.

 

 

I removed a few parts to improve access.

 

 

And wrapped up the electrical bits that wouldn’t appreciate a splash of water.

 

 

I jacked up the car for better access to the underside of the engine.

 

 

I sprayed all the dirty areas with Jizer and after ten minutes I got stuck in.

 

 

Once cleaned and dried, I started the engine. It fired first time, no problems whatsoever. Junkman would approve.

 

Clean and sparkly.

 

 

No more oily deposits here.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Underneath everything looks much cleaner.

 

 

 

I cleaned the sump guard and gave it a coat of waxoil.

 

 

The paint on the cam cover was already badly cracked so I’m not surprised that most of it peeled off. I will give the cover a lick of paint next weekend, refit the sump guard and replace the engine oil and filter.

[Peter C]

I had planned to visit an autojumble this morning.

 

Details here: http://autoshite.com/topic/34182-kidlington-oxford-autojumble-this-sunday/

 

After yesterday's engine cleaning shenanigans the engine re-started first time and ran fine. However, this morning it took a lot of cranking to get the engine started but once running everything seemed fine or at least I thought it was. I set off and within less than ten minutes the engine started to misfire. I stopped on the M40 slip road to investigate.

 

 

I fiddled with the plug leads and checked for any evidence of moisture. There was none. I figured that I would drive to the next junction and come off and go home if the engine was still running rough or continue if the problem cleared up. Luckily the engine seemed fine and I continued my journey north on the M40.

 

I drove past Handy Cross (J4), the car running just fine, happy that I only lost 5 minutes of my time, I noticed a familiar looking car on the hard shoulder - my brother in law's Volvo.

 

Previous Volvo related episode here: http://autoshite.com/topic/34031-christmas-day-mishap-w124-to-the-rescue-now-properly-fixed/?hl=volvo+diesel+unleaded

 

Since the mis-fuel issue, the fuel level float has been playing up and despite showing half a tank on the gauge, the tank was dry. My BIL's girlfriend was on route to work so I figured I need to stop and help.

 

Silly girl left the car inches from the nearside lane.

 

 

So I gave her a quick tow to a safer location.

 

 

Then the old bill turned up for a chinwag.

 

 

And twenty minutes later the nice RAC man turned up with fuel.

 

 

With fuel in the tank the Volvo burst into life without any problems. Amazingly, there were no issues with airlocks or blockages caused by filth in the tank (there was loads, I could see it when we were draining the tank).

 

It was so fucking cold on that hard shoulder that once we got the Volvo going I turned back and went home for a cuppa.

 

That's the second time the 200E saved that Volvo.

 

Mercedes 2 - 0 Volvo

[Guest Hooli]

I remember those Volvos have fuel gauges doing that from new. The float will be stuck on some wiring inside the tank, we had a couple from the factory like it when I worked at a dealer.

 

It'll need stuff jiggling so the wiring is clear of the float's arc.

[Peter C]

I drove to London and back this afternoon and the 200E ran fine. I suspect that the misfire that occurred earlier today was related to water in the electrics, which dried out whilst driving on the motorway.

[Eddie Honda]

Then the old bill turned up for a chinwag.

OLD BILL?!!

 

They're wannabe old bill. WOMBLES!

 

womble by E Honda, on Flickr

 

...Remember, member, member, what a Womble, Womble, Womble you are

[Crispian_J_Hotson]

Traffic officers. They office traffic. More importantly, they inadvertantly make other road users think that they're old bill so they slow down to 60 hitting the brakes hard, pull into the slow lane like they should have been in the first place and clear a path for me. I like office trafficers.

[Peter C]

I decided to replace the recently replaced (sourced from ECP) thermostat as even with my radiator shield fitted, on a run the engine temperature would never exceed 80 degrees C. 

 

I bought a new thermostat and housing from Hughes of Beaconsfield. The original (plastic) housing cracked when I was fiddling with the old thermostat and whilst my resin repair seemed to do the trick, I wanted to upgrade to the W123 style metal housing.

 

 

I got a lot of good advice about how best to do an oil change on this post: http://autoshite.com/topic/34263-best-way-to-do-an-oil-change/

 

Further research on the net revealed that it's ok to drain the oil cold, especially if the engine has not been run for some time. Fortunately the 200E has been standing untouched for a week.

 

The old oil came out just fine and I left it to drain for almost an hour, by which time there was nothing left in the sump. Whilst removing the oil filter I found it and the housing completely dry, evidently all the oil had drained into the sump. Perfect.

 

 

New thermostat and housing fitted, a doddle on this car.

 

 

I noticed some localised surface corrosion on some of the suspension mountings.

 

 

I waxoiled over the rusty bits and reinstated the re-painted sump guard.

 

 

Job done.

 

[Wingz123]

Not really related to your Mercedes specifically but I write this with absolute truth as i regularly see the guy when visiting my friend. He sends and receives parcels from Lithuania. He is Lithuanian. His wifes father owns a business that sends vans over here and one van in particular is a Mercedes Sprinter like mine. His speedo has just clicked over again for the second time and being LT registered is in km. He is back and forth from Lithuania to the UK (2,000km) every 10 or so days. Last time I saw his speedo was saying 5600 km and as I say has clicked over twice before so has done 2,005,600

 

He services it every 5k with oil and filter changes and has had no issues whatsoever.

 

Spoken to many people and they all say the same....the shape of Sprinter I have is the best! 2005 shape....

 

So sorry Pete C nothing to do with your model of Merc but testament to how well they were built!

[Peter C]

Not really related to your Mercedes specifically but I write this with absolute truth as i regularly see the guy when visiting my friend. He sends and receives parcels from Lithuania. He is Lithuanian. His wifes father owns a business that sends vans over here and one van in particular is a Mercedes Sprinter like mine. His speedo has just clicked over again for the second time and being LT registered is in km. He is back and forth from Lithuania to the UK (2,000km) every 10 or so days. Last time I saw his speedo was saying 5600 km and as I say has clicked over twice before so has done 2,005,600

 

He services it every 5k with oil and filter changes and has had no issues whatsoever.

 

Spoken to many people and they all say the same....the shape of Sprinter I have is the best! 2005 shape....

 

So sorry Pete C nothing to do with your model of Merc but testament to how well they were built!

Thank you, I enjoy reading all Mercedes related stories.

 

As for high mileage Mercs, this is my favourite:

 

https://allaboutdieselz.blogspot.com/2016/04/34-million-km-mercedes-benz-w124.html?m=1