Ambassador Displacers

[sierraman]

Anyone know of anyone that supplies these or recons them?

[vulgalour]

Nobody supplies them, they've been out of production for as long as the Ambassador.  It's pot luck as to whether or not you can find them, though they are interchangable with Princess units.

 

The best you can do for reconditioning is getting them regassed.  There's a few folks that offer this service, most well known are these guys: http://www.hydragasandhydrolasticservice.com/home.html

[sierraman]

I thought as much, I was asking for someone who is restoring a Ambassador VDP. He was concerned in case the ones he had were no good.

[vulgalour]

That's always the fear.  Best you can do is flush them through with purple meths to get the worst of the old fluid and loose rust out first, then pump up to the requisite 400psi pressure with fresh Hydrolastic/agas fluid.  The Carplan stuff is perfectly fine for this, and can be got easily on eBay usually for £notalot.  Pump to pressure rather than height, this seems to be better for the longevity of the system.  If it sits about right at the correct pressure, he's probably good to go.  If it's a bit low, then the displacers would benefit from a regas.  Because of lack of parts availability, it's a compromise.  Usually, there's no issues, the suspension system is generally fairly robust on the survivors and they seem to stay better with use than if they're left stood for long periods.

 

The main difference between Ambassador and Princess displacers is that the hose is integral on the rear for the Ambassador (some say they're slightly uprated to cope with the extra weight from the tailgate engineering done, I don't know that for definite) where it's separate on the Princess.

 

Also, look for leaks at all joints and schrader valves.  Sometimes a wonky car isn't knackered suspension, it's a leaking joint or a pinholed interconnecting pipe.

 

Ambassadors don't seem to suffer the same rate of failure as Princesses on the displacers, so he should be okay.  If he does find any displacers it's best to scoop them up, though normally they go for about £130 each these days, even untested, which is a bit rich for second hand parts.  Dunlop have the tooling to put them into production again, trouble is it needs a ridiculous sum of money to get them to do a minimum run and there simply isn't the demand.

[sierraman]

Thanks! I'll pass the info on!

[Zelandeth]

Dunlop have the tooling to put them into production again, trouble is it needs a ridiculous sum of money to get them to do a minimum run and there simply isn't the demand.

Just like RHD Lada steering boxes then. Lada are quite happy to make more for us...provided we order 10,000 of them!

[somewhatfoolish]

How ridiculous are they talking?

[vulgalour]

It was an investment of something like £50,000 (Rovamota will know for definite), which is a bit crazy when you consider there's only a few hundred Princess and Ambassadors left in the world.  I mean, you'd end up with more displacers than you'd ever need for every car forever, so it's a worthwhile investment from an enthusiast point of view, but makes absolutely no sense from a business point of view.

[SiC]

Or hopefully 3D printing technology will progress sufficiently in the not too distant future and allow replacement parts to be fabricated for existing units.

[Talbot]

What goes wrong with them? Corrosion issues, or do they actually wear out?

 

Edit: Just found this old thread:

 

http://autoshite.com/topic/20989-the-hydragas-problem-seeking-a-solution/

 

Which explains a lot.

 

I suspect the answer will be refurbished/re-pressurised displacer units until they are all used up (and are £fuckmehowmuch? each) and after that it will be some sort of modified Citroen system. The driving force for re-engineering a different solution will be the rising cost of working displacers.... just as with any other re-engineering of a vehicle component.

[rovamota]

We have displacers.

 

http://www.leylandprincess.co.uk/bodyparts.htm

[somewhatfoolish]

Three options strike me from this;

 

1. persuade Dunlop to sell the tooling, allowing owners club to either do the work to make a small batch themselves or contract it out to engineering works with meaty enough hydraulic presses to form and crimp up the metal work.

 

2. persuade Dunlop to make the component parts(presumably in the same large batch size, but because in component form much cheaper), allowing small batches or individual orders to be made as needed, again either by club or via contractor.

 

3. reverse engineer the whole thing for ease of manufacture and repair, with recharging valves and bolted joints allowing diaphragm replacement.

 

Does anyone know what the diaphragms are made of? It may be necessary to ask Dunlop to supply the diaphragms to get that part right. Are the fluid control valves common or different ones for each model/front/rear? From a reverse engineering perspective the metal bit is the easy part.

[plasticvandan]

They may be reluctant to sell individual parts on H&S grounds.high pressure and all that

[sierraman]

Imagine chancing on a shed full of displacers now!

[SiC]

It wasn't far off that when Earlpart went into liquidation and their stock store was sold off.

[Parky]

Surely if someone took a broken one apart and reverse engineered it, it couldn’t be that hard to hand make a limited size batch?

 

Not being an engineer it strikes me that they aren’t much more than two cans with a strip of rubber and a valve in between. Sure there is a bit more to it than that but seeing various engineering shops produce parts stocks from scratch on car shows it surely can be done?

[SiC]

The high pressures involved make it a bit more complex. Also the material choice is a difficult one to figure. Get it wrong and it'll fail spectacularly.

 

It'd really need the materials used. Especially the rubber formulation. Once all that's done you've got to convince an insurance company that it's safe if you want liability insurance.

 

All for a couple hundred units at best, which would be sold over a number of years.

 

That's my guess why no-one has bothered to yet. Especially as used units are still available and refurbishment/rebuild is a possibility.

[SiC]

As a side note, I was reading through the EU regs on type approval the other day. I've forgotten the exact date, but essentially parts for classic cars don't need to be type approved if replacing existing parts. Despite that it'd be a good idea to get product liability insurance. Especially in this day and age.

[rovamota]

The integral hose was a manufacturing change that was introduced during the last year of Princess production as part of the 11/80 facelift to improve reliability, and the gas chamber was also enlarged.    

 

The main difference between Ambassador and Princess displacers is that the hose is integral on the rear for the Ambassador (some say they're slightly uprated to cope with the extra weight from the tailgate engineering done, I don't know that for definite) where it's separate on the Princess.

 

[somewhatfoolish]

It wasn't far off that when Earlpart went into liquidation and their stock store was sold off.

29595064_10155461501250823_3997964563222618855_n.jpg

Blimey, did someone buy them or did they get skipped? 

[SiC]

Blimey, did someone buy them or did they get skipped?

Sold when the company was liquidated.

 

More info here:

http://mk1-forum.net/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=21997

[trigger]

These guys bought them all, the same guys as linked above.

 

https://www.facebook.com/groups/Hydrosuspension/

[rovamota]

They seem to have cornered the market for displacer revival and are hoovering up stock from all over the place. They charge £480 to regas four displacers if on the car and most people seem to be happy with the results, though there have been a few failures reported after regassing as well as seized pivot arms not being freed off as part of the job.