Project 307SW FIN :(

[DodgyBastard]

Good progress with this, I'd have given up long ago.
As always, you're welcome to use the ramp and welder, if you could get more of that foreign porridge thats to be eaten cold that would be excellent!

Sent from my G3121 using Tapatalk

[loserone]

Ouch.  Not something anyone likes to see.

[pauldoubleyou]

Have a look at both of the front ends of the sills - there is a kind of jacking point / box section with a 2" drainhole in it just behind the front arches. Both of mine were a bit scrappy, only one enough to fail the test. I ended up welding the NS one up last month as it was completely rotten. 

 

Have you had any issues with the inner track rods? 

[sierraman]

You are in this far you might as well weld them up, it’s not like the suspension mounts have collapsed or something drastic like that. 

[rainagain]

51 minutes ago, pauldoubleyou said:

Have a look at both of the front ends of the sills - there is a kind of jacking point / box section with a 2" drainhole in it just behind the front arches. Both of mine were a bit scrappy, only one enough to fail the test. I ended up welding the NS one up last month as it was completely rotten. 

 

Have you had any issues with the inner track rods? 

Mine had an advisory for play in the inners before I bought it from looking at the MOT history but I've never noticed any myself so maybe the previous owner had them changed?

[rainagain]

14 minutes ago, sierraman said:

You are in this far you might as well weld them up, it’s not like the suspension mounts have collapsed or something drastic like that. 

Aye, it'll be getting done, FOAD has kindly offered use of his ramp and welder. I'll make some cardboard templates up and get the plates cut and bent at work. 

[motorpunk]

Boring 307 story. A neighbour was the boss of a Peugeot dealer when these came out new. We had a BBQ and he came. He was bragging about how successful his business was. His missus was coming straight from work in her brand new 307 that he’d got her. She was late. Very late. Eventually she arrived very angry, having walked quite some distance, threw the keys at him and shouted; “ITS FUCKED! AGAIN!”.

 

 

[rainagain]

I took FOAD up on his kind offer and drove my car with working clutch to his workshop. I'd made some repair patches up at work, I'd made the O/S one about twice as big as I thought it needed to be just in case.  

It was much worse than I though it was going to be, the inner sill was badly rotted as well.

There was also this nice mess towards the rear

[rainagain]

I used a strip of steel to patch the inner sill before I attached my premade patch. I then made up another patch to cover the rest of the rot. You can see the two patches below, the one I made up in the workshop is the one tacked on the LHS

[rainagain]

The rear of the N/S sill was also rotten, again both inner and outer sills

A patch was attached to the inside

Then my repair patch was put on top, this one went ok as I was welding it onto another patch I'd put on previously so the repair didn't get any bigger

[rainagain]

The MOT was booked the following day, I didn't even have time to wash off the burn marks before I presented it, however:

 

It passed no problem 

 

[drewd]

Congratulations on the MOT, you've really earned it on this car.

[beko1987]

Nice! Surely the mot man will see a bit of welding and burn marks and be happier inside that he doesn't have to tap too hard with the hammer of truth

[Remspoor]

Well done on the MOT pass. Little disappointed to see how much rot there was. Just shows you how much the salted roads do to a car. Mine in Spain has no underbody rot. Just a little bit of rust tear stains appearing around the tailgate hinges. I do not live in the warmer climbs of the "expat" coast either.

[rainagain]

2 hours ago, Remspoor said:

Well done on the MOT pass. Little disappointed to see how much rot there was. Just shows you how much the salted roads do to a car. Mine in Spain has no underbody rot. Just a little bit of rust tear stains appearing around the tailgate hinges. I do not live in the warmer climbs of the "expat" coast either.

I think most of this rot was caused by the previous owner glassing over both sills including the drain holes! So they sat slowly rotting away whilst full of water, this gives me an excuse to post this pic again when I drilled through the glass fibre. 

[Remspoor]

Amazing what some one can do. ?

[rainagain]

I am now officially old. When I was doing all the clutch work I also fitted a lowering kit (springs and shocks). Whilst it now corners incredible flat I can’t take the harsh ride. Annoying after installing the lowering kit I’ve since learned I should have cut my bump stops, some of the harsh ride may be down to it hitting the stops. I’m half tempted to take the struts out and do this. However I don’t want to go to all this trouble and it still be really harsh. 
 

My plan therefore is to keep the new shocks but refit the original springs. I’m going to cut one coil off the very long front standard spring to make it slightly stiffer and also make it easier to fit. 

[artdjones]

Honestly, I'd stick with the standard springs.The car handles pretty well with them.I know they're difficult to fit.I had to compress mine until the blocks the compressor's hooks are formed from were touching on the screw thread before I could get the top nut on.

[Jazoli]

Cutting a coil off won't make it any stiffer it will just have the affect of lowering the car.

You are not altering the spring rate just shortening the spring.

[artdjones]

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.eatondetroitspring.com/cutting-coil-springs/&ved=2ahUKEwjLu__mxNXmAhWzkFwKHZmwCIsQFjABegQIDhAG&usg=AOvVaw3Zh5Bl5GM9toTS82OncsHn&cshid=1577439771725

[rainagain]

Standard ride height

 

lowered

[rainagain]

On 12/27/2019 at 9:31 AM, Jazoli said:

Cutting a coil off won't make it any stiffer it will just have the affect of lowering the car.

You are not altering the spring rate just shortening the spring.

It does make it slightly stiffer, tbh I only cut it to allow me to fit it with my spring compressors:

From: https://www.eatondetroitspring.com/cutting-coil-springs-calculations/

Cutting coils does increase the spring rate. Let me explain why.

The strength of a spring, leaf or coil is a function of the cube of the steel used. Keeping with the subject of your question, coil springs, the diameter of the wire and the length of the wire will give us the amount of steel used.

For this whole discussion we will be talking about springs with the same wire diameter and the same inside diameter. The only thing that will change will be the length of the wire used to wind the spring.

The longer the wire is the lower the spring rate. As the wire get shorter, such as when cutting the coil, the spring rate increases.

So everyone has a clear understanding lets describe what “rate” is.

Rate is the amount of weight it takes to deflect a spring one Inch.

A very common mistake is to think that spring rate is how much a spring supports. How much weight a spring is designed to support is called “Load” or “Designed Load” or”Load Rate”.

Rate and Load Rate are two totally different animals.

The calculation to find the rate of a coil spring is:

11,250,000 times the wire diameter to the 4th power divided by 8 times the active number of turns times the mean diameter cubed.

Active turns are the number of turns of the spring that do not touch anything. Any part of the coil which makes contact with anything becomes inactive, that is it no longer functions as part of the spring.

The mean diameter is the inside coil diameter plus one wire thickness. Or the outside coil diameter less one wire thickness.

Let’s say for example a 1967 Mustang GT front spring is made from .610 wire and has an inside diameter of 3.875″ and has a free height of16.145″ (not installed) and is deflected down to 10.5″ (load height) when loaded to 1,519 Lbs. (load rate) This spring has a spring rate of 269 Lbs.

This spring has 9.33 total coils but 1.33 coils touch the spring seat so they are inactive leaving 8 active turns. (I know this from the Ford blue print).

The mean diameter is 3.875 + .610 (The inside is the important diameter because it is the inside of the spring which is used to locate the spring on the corresponding suspension parts. The outside diameter is not considered because it will change with a change of wire diameter)

Do the math-

11,250,000 x (.610 x .610 x .610 x .610) / 8 x 8 active turns x (4.485 x 4.485 x 4.485) = 269 Lbs.

Double check the math – 16.145 – 10.5 = 5.645 deflection. 1,519/5.645 = 269

Now if we cut say 1/2 turn off this spring the active turns become 7.5.

So 11,250,000 x (.610 x .610 x .610 x .610) / 8 x 7.5 x (4.485 x 4.485 x 4.485) = 287 Lbs.

While the rate is increased the load is unchanged. Rate is the amount of weight required to deflect the spring one Inch while load is the amount of weight the spring will support at a given height.

[rainagain]

Here's my cut front springs and standard rear springs ready to be fitted. I chucked some anti-rust primer on them. You can see the cut coil lying next to the angle grinder

[rainagain]

As mentioned in the link provided by artdjones you shouldn't really cut square ended springs like mine, you can see how they're not quite sitting right on the strut.

My upgraded shocks are slightly longer than standard so I cut a bit off the bump stop, I stupidly cut the softer part of the stop by mistake. I should have cut from the other end 

[rainagain]

I went to swap round the rear springs and found one of the 'new' up-rated back shocks was leaking.

Luckily I'd kept the original ones so I refitted them, complete with giffer string holding the dust covers up.

[beko1987]

I have those same rubber mats! Some form the floor of the kids playhouse, 6 more sit down the side of the shed to go under the kids paddling pool, and I have 4 for car use, their great!

[rainagain]

20 minutes ago, beko1987 said:

I have those same rubber mats! Some form the floor of the kids playhouse, 6 more sit down the side of the shed to go under the kids paddling pool, and I have 4 for car use, their great!

Indeed, much better than a damp bit of carpet, I've got four as well I normally stack them all up to kneel on or spread them out if I need to lie down. One of those how did I live without these purchases. 

[drewd]

What type of spring compressors did you use for this? I've got the hook type, and was advised by yourself and others not to try DIYing it. However looking on Amazon it seems there are versions that look like a pair of half moon plates that provide a lot more support to the spring when compressing it. I'm wondering if these are worth the investment or if I should just farm the job out. I'm a bit reluctant as the labour involved in removing the scuttle and wiper linkage to get to the top bolts could be costly, and it's a mile and a half walk with the struts and springs if I take them off the car and get the garage to swap the springs.

[rainagain]

I used the hook type, like this:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Sealey-AK3841-Coil-Spring-Compressor/dp/B00K1UJNES/ref=sr_1_5?keywords=spring+compressor&qid=1581495575&sr=8-5

I also noticed they sell longer ones like this:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/KATSU-Spring-Compressor-Heavy-Screws/dp/B07WCPQF56/ref=pd_aw_sbs_60_4/257-4519595-9021227?_encoding=UTF8&pd_rd_i=B07WCPQF56&pd_rd_r=bc895c3d-9a71-4730-804d-8f9ce5b022c3&pd_rd_w=RJmB4&pd_rd_wg=ssIEY&pf_rd_p=15216146-4434-47f5-99d9-56240c85bf4d&pf_rd_r=GEWNTW8KF24FPWKTC95R&psc=1&refRID=GEWNTW8KF24FPWKTC95R

I'd be tempted to give the longer ones a try. Wrap insulating tape around the jaws as this not only stops them wrecking the paint on the springs it also helps stop them slipping round.

[drewd]

Thanks, mine are similar to the ones you used.

It was these I was referring to. Mekanik 1000kg MacPherson Strut Coil Spring Compressor Dumper Extractor Yolk Protector https://smile.amazon.co.uk/dp/B07MW4F2YZ/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_i_.X8qEbCMCMPS0

They're expensive, but if they're up to the task they might be worth buying. I'll do some more research before deciding to buy them or farm the job out.