Datsuncog's Heaps: Sept 2023 - Another Year's T-Met Exemption Certificate...

[Dirk Diggler]

different for proper 'classics', though?

Available to most things over 20, a few at 15 at reasonable enough rates, rolling tax exemption from 30 years old and pre 1980 NCT exempt. But still eye watering motor tax rates until then

[Tadhg Tiogar]

....rolling tax exemption from 30 years old ....

Yay, mine qualifies this year.....

[Datsuncog]

Right, I shouldn't be letting this get to me, but it's actually doing my tits in. Because it doesn't make sense, and that's a brilliant way for me to get into a bit of a tailspin.

Here's the technical spec for Renault's F-type engines. Yes, it's from Wikipedia, but the Renault Club website shows the same basic data:

^^^ So, the F3P motor, which is the single-cam, 8v, monopoint injection (but sometimes multipoint), fitted to Phase 1 Lagunas between 1994 and 1999, has a capacity rating of 1794cc. We're all clear on that, yeah?

And it looks like this. This is the 8v monopoint unit, in KAZ. The unit fitted to TAZ is fundamentally the same, but with a fuel rail rather than a throttle body at the back of the bay. Even HBOL agrees this is an 8v engine. One cam. We've all got that, right?

So.

 

^^^ The F4P motor, which is the twin-cam, 16v, multipoint injection, fitted only to Phase 2 Lagunas between 1998 and 2001, has a capacity of 1783cc. Seems crystal clear on that, too.

^^^ Here's what a 16v engine looks like in a Laguna 1 - very different indeed. My dad's Laguna was a 1998 16v Phase 2, so I'm pretty familiar with the difference between his and mine.

 

So why the hell are both KAZ and TAZ - which are both Phase 1 cars, and very definitely have the single cam, 8v engine, mark ye well - both rated as 1783cc on their respective tax books?

That just can't be. For one, the 1783cc 16v engine was not even in production when both these cars were first registered. It's an 8v F3P unit, so it must also have a capacity of 1794cc. Yet both V5s claim a rating of 1783cc. As above.

As I alluded to yesterday, both these cars have been a massive pain to get parts for - new plugs bought using data linked to the reg no. made KAZ run worse; the supplied drive belt was totally unsuitable. Is it possible something very strange has happened somewhere along the line? Has DVLNI fucked up at the point they phased out the old green tri-fold tax books for the new A4 paper ones, merging all 1.8 Renaults into the same (later) cc band? Every time I order something from ECP or a local indie, is it a part for a 16v DOHC engine I'm receiving instead?

I know it shouldn't really matter while one car's pissing oil and water in fairly equal quantities and the other has an ignition system that's literally crumbled to dust, but while accepting that this is rather a moot point as long as both cars are undriveable, it's also testing my sanity quite severely.

Sorry for the whinge.

[beko1987]

Can you do some sleuthing and find a reg number from a car with the 'right' engine and compare ecp part numbers? Might narrow it down. Then just put that on a post it note for when you next have to order parts!

 

I found vauxhall combo parts were cheaper than Meriva parts, and suspension type stuff was identical as the meriva is a jacked up corsa, combo is a jacked up meriva etc. So I used to use a 2003 combo reg plate to check prices! Saved a tenner on the lower ball joints etc!

[Datsuncog]

On 4/10/2018 at 11:41 AM, beko1987 said:

Can you do some sleuthing and find a reg number from a car with the 'right' engine and compare ecp part numbers? Might narrow it down. Then just put that on a post it note for when you next have to order parts!

That's a good idea... and I thought I'd start by having a check with that rather tasty low-spec Phase 1 estate on Car & Classic...

Like, what? DVLA also reckon that this one is running a 1783cc (i.e. 16v DOHC) unit.

Which it can't be. (Unless someone's swapped in a later engine, but I find that highly unlikely.)

Wibble...

[BeEP]

As I understand it all the information on the V5 will be from what the selling dealer stated on the forms they filled in when the car was first registered/sold.  Some discrepancies will be obvious and sorted out straight away, others are either too subtle or not important enough to get corrected.  I've had an Austin 1100 with one digit of the chassis number transposed from a 3 to an 8 which remained that way until the advent of computerised MOTs.  An Allegro belonging to another member of this forum has been registered as red from new, the problem being it's applejack green and always has been.

[beko1987]

This is where we find out that ALL the pez mk1 gooners are all registered as the same thing!

 

Find one that isn't though and it might remove many obstacles, and you won't have to faff about changing your V5 to say 10cc more! Would 24v6turbo or any of the other hardcore renault lickers have a database of spots/car info with reg plates? Join the gooner facebook group and ask on there, someone might have one!

[artdjones]

According to Autodata there is a version of the F3p that is 1783cc.The F3p b670/s724.However it seems to be a multipoint injection setup (according to the accompanying wiring diagram).

[artdjones]

Just found an F3p s724 as mentioned above for sale on a Polish website and it has a distributor so that may be what you have.

[Parky]

Hang on, does this mean that your engine is 11cc larger than the V5's claims??

 

Have you informed your insurers????????????

 

"Shhhh, still sez 1783cc on the logbook M8 wink wink"

 

As a long time Renault owner (1990 to 2003) whenever I needed a part I always took the original with me so I could match it in the shop. And when I got a match, I methodically noted down the part numbers for future use.

 

Interestingly I occasionally found parts fitted to my car were actually wrong. Although as the factory used a very precise technique for building these cars (called Ca Va Faire or CVF), which translates into English as "that'll do", I wouldn't have been too surprised to find discs on the left and drums on the right. From different incompatible makers naturally. Renault, gotta love 'em!

[Datsuncog]

Right, I've calmed down, given myself a stern talking-to, and had a croissant (try it, it helps). I think I'm a bit calmer now.

On 4/10/2018 at 2:37 PM, artdjones said:

According to Autodata there is a version of the F3p that is 1783cc.The F3p b670/s724.However it seems to be a multipoint injection setup (according to the accompanying wiring diagram).

 

Quote

Just found an F3p s724 as mentioned above for sale on a Polish website and it has a distributor so that may be what you have.          

Yes. That makes absolute sense; I think I may have been guilty of placing rather too much weight on Wikipedia than is good for me.

I mean, I still find it rather hard to understand why Renault produced two versions of the same engine with 11cc difference, simultaneously, and for good measure produced both the 1783cc and 1784cc units in 90HP and 95HP versions (I still don't know which output mine is, btw) - but I'm probably better off looking up parts numbers than getting in a flap over alleged capacity.

It's hardly like it's the first time Wikipedia has proved inaccurate... but if three pre-98 cars are shown on the DVLA database as 1783cc, then it's fair to say that not all cars of that capacity are necessarily 98-on 16v DOHC units.

So yeah. And breathe.

 

Unfortunately, this means that I do not have the whole 11cc extra that I otherwise thought I might. Which will make a lot of difference, of course.

I do tend to write down parts reference codes on the inside flap of the HBOL as I buy things, but in truth I rarely have any car long enough to carry out the same job twice! KAZ has needed very little, and as such has received very little (bar routine servicing). It sounds terrible, but I'd never even looked in the distributor cap until Sunday.

So, while I twiddle my thumbs awaiting Royal Mail to deliver the all-important cap, I set to seeing what might be done with TAZ...

[They_all_do_that_sir]

I would drive it to clearways while it's still insured, assuming you don't foresee a repeat spillage.

 

I may have been involved in driving a car with no exhaust (cut the cat off for £25) to clearways..... Remove battery and push onto weighbridge, give cat and battery to the man on the desk.

 

Oh and on the subject of croissants, I had one from the Lidl bakery earlier and can state without exception it's the best

 

 

Sent from my F3211 using Tapatalk

[Steve79]

I would imagine it's fecked - it's been coming up in my Gumtree searches at £250 for months, someone's cleaned it up and is trying to flip it...

I was looking at the same as well. Didn't bother in the end for the same reason. It had been advertised for months and judging by the other wrecks he was selling it didn't bode well.

[Datsuncog]

On 4/10/2018 at 4:30 PM, They_all_do_that_sir said:

I would drive it to clearways while it's still insured, assuming you don't foresee a repeat spillage.

I may have been involved in driving a car with no exhaust (cut the cat off for £25) to clearways..... Remove battery and push onto weighbridge, give cat and battery to the man on the desk.

Oh and on the subject of croissants, I had one from the Lidl bakery earlier and can state without exception it's the best.

Yeah... I'm really not convinced it'll even make it as far as Clearways. Something is banging about like a mad thing under the cam cover (I may well whip it off and take a look, to satisfy my morbid curiosity) and for some reason the push-fit heater matrix inlet-outlet connector won't reattach without coolant just pouring out of it (appears the catch is now missing).

So I'm debating whether it'll cost me more hassle and drama in the long term if it totally grenades around Fortwilliam than it would be to forgo the extra cash... I'm now thinking about pulling what I can from it, including wheels, battery (nearly new) and possibly some panels (KAZ has both wings and bonnet badly creased), then getting McKinty's to come and HIAB the remains away...

Oh, and +1 on Lidl croissants... since our staff canteen closed, it's been a godsend...

[Parky]

If you are rescuing panels at least you will be able to get them off and sprayed up before fitting them to KAZ. You'll never get the silver to match exactly but it will be less obvious than dark green panels.

 

You can also get those wheels sanded down and sprayed up too so they look new as well. I think KAZ could end up looking good! Provided the dizzy cap is the fundamental problem of course

[Datsuncog]

^^^ Well, that's kind of what I'm thinking... I made a half-arsed attempt last year to remove a wing on UKZ (originally SAZ, but the previous owner had flogged the original plate), the £50 shitter - but couldn't manage to get the front bumper off, and having lost a 13mm socket and extension bar somewhere up inside the front box section during the attempt, gave up as I had no real need of it. But I've attempted to repair KAZ's dents before (unsuccessfully - they're all on curves, and over double-skinned sections) and have been wondering if paint and swap might be the way to go.

Or just swap... silver and entirely green fore of the A-post would look trés chic, non?

As the dizzy was supposedly posted on Monday lunchtime, I'm hoping there might just be a parcel waiting when I get home (though a bastarding 'Sorry You Were Out' card is more likely).

 

I think KAZ could end up looking fairly good too, with a bit of lovin' -  providing I get the finger out. And assuming the starting probs are entirely dizzy related.

Dithering too over whether to raid TAZ for any other potential spares to re-use/sell on some far-off sunny day (and risk generating more spousal wrath at having to store the bastards) or just swap the wheels and swipe the front panels and then ring the yard to come and grab.

I'm getting the vibe that sooner rather than later would be greatly appreciated in terms of getting TAZ's flyblown carcass off the drive, but at the same time my cheap-ass nature causes me to worry that I'll realise I need something vital for KAZ the minute TAZ is disappearing off into the distance... (as happened with a scrap Datsun many moons ago).

 

The amount of mental turmoil and disharmony this kind of shiter dilemma generates is what makes me want to just march into a Skoda dealership and shriek "Give me one of those!" at a Kermit-green Rapid...

[Parky]

 

Silver body and green front would be pretty swish for sure...and KAZ would definitely* look like the racer below

 

* might not look anything like the racer below

 

If it is being collected by a friendly chap with a low loader (or a complete arsehole with a low loader, whatever) I would suggest things like lights, switchgear, battery, fuel pump, door handles and cards, seats, belts, perhaps even big items like the gearbox are worth liberating. That way you have a useful supply of parts for KAZ.

 

Last thing you need is a stone to go through a headlight a week before the MOT and then discover headlights are unobtanium

 

If not needed, they are always worth something on the bay, but of course a lot depends on whether (1) you have storage for said bits and (2) whether you can be arsed. Smaller items though that can go in one storage box (lights, switches, etc) are definitely worth saving though. Mrs Cog won't have too much to complain about if all that is left is one small box in the shed or loft.

[Datsuncog]

I think that might be the go.

I know McKinty's to be fairly laid-back and reasonably Renner-friendly (hell, I believe they kept a Vel Satis lying in their yard for quite some time, purely so that R9UKE of this parish could come and pick bits off it at his leisure). Might need to restrict myself to smaller bits, but easily bust stuff likes lights and indicator lenses sound sensible.

It's a pain but I believe there are no engine ancillaries in common between the monopoint and multipoint versions of the F3P engine, frustratingly.

I may be able to nick a PAS hose from TAZ to replace the weeping one off KAZ, mind. It's the kind of stupid basic thing that motor factors just don't seem to stock anymore.

pMrs Cog wouldn't mind a box or two of spares in principle; I think it would be adding them to my extant 348 boxes of crap (approx.) that may push her over the edge...

Verdict: need to offload those models pronto.

[Datsuncog]

More joys.

Well, not entirely sarcastically.

First up, I arrived home to find this, as predicted:

Now, I was labouring under the misapprehension that Royal Mail's default was to leave a parcel somewhere safe, barring special delivery etc. There's loads of safe places near our front door to leave stuff. Plus, next-door is on maternity leave and at home most of the day - but we've rarely had a parcel left there. It's usually back to the bloody depot, who strategically set their operating hours to open just as I need to be getting on the train, and shut again just as I'm getting off the train.

Cheers, fellas. That'll mean standing in the queue for a fun half hour on Saturday morning to finally receive my dizzy cap and find out if luck be a lady - or a meths-swilling tramp ready to burp in my face.

For lack of anything else helpful to do, I toddled outside before it got too dark to see whether KAZ's interior had responded at all to Sunday's assault with the de-mould spray - or if it was shortly to attract the attention of Porton Down's finest as a prime suspect in the Skripal case.

I was shocked, can I say.

 

The spray's done a really excellent job and pretty much all the mould, mildew etc has vanished. I wouldn't go so far as to call it 'showroom condition', but it's better than I've ever known it.

Compare that to how it looked on Sunday before I started:

Ewww. Yes, I know. But I'm impressed. Kilrock Mould Spray Cleaner; £1 or so out of Home Bargains. No bleaching of the upholstery or anything.

23/10, would use to de-foul abandoned Renners again.

I used the last of the bottle on a few bits of mildew that had been missed and on the carpets. Now, there is a terrible swimming-pool type of chemical smell, but I'm hoping that opening the doors on dry evenings and maybe some Neutradol will help.

In the meantime, a hilarious* Viz 'Johnny Fartpants' air freshener has been pressed into service to disguise the niff. Because classy.

I also did a quick recce of what KAZ might need for MOT. At a minimum, and assuming the distributor cap brings her back to life:

• swap worn and cracked Avons on steelies over for TAZ's alloys shod with new Rikens;
• change brake fluid & check pads & discs;
• fix/swap over weeping PAS pipe coming from the reservoir bottle;
• check over my highly professional* replacement fuel tank strap, fabricated using a length of builder's wall repair strap following an MOT failure in 2014, and swap in a new fuel filter while I'm under there;
• oil and filters change (maybe not essential, but I'm a smidge paranoid now).

I'm hoping that should be it. I may throw in some Redex just to smooth things along, but it was running well when parked, m8.

The bodywork is a bit of a mess, though. Low light doesn't help, but here are just some of the main dings/rust holes/missing bits:

 

I'd tried to pop out some of the dents before using one of those cheapo Amtec suction puller things from TK Maxx, with zero success due to location/curvature. I'm still mulling over whether stripping TAZ's front panels and getting them repainted would be more cost-effective than repairing what's on it.

The rear door cards are severely damaged by damp and cackhandedness, and seem to be held in place more through force of habit than by any physical clips.

But yeah... the weekend's going to determine whether or not I'm really making strides in putting KAZ back on the road... or if I'm just putting lipstick on a corpse.

Stay tuned, kids!

[MorrisItalSLX]

If TAZ is going to the big Laguna showroom in the sky, then you should swap out every part that you can to improve KAZ. It would be a waste not to.

 

Plus, it is easier to change the colour of a panel than to bang and fill a dent in one.

[Parky]

Just thought - if the later 1794cc engine is a lower emission engine, but every Laguna in NI is registered as a 1783cc, does that mean that everyone with a 1.8 Laguna has been charged road tax / VEL based on the potentially higher emissions of the older 1783cc engine?

 

Makes me wonder if every Laguna owner isn't due a bit of a refund?

[Ghosty]

Another one for having a silver car with a green front end (and hatch?), if it runs.

[beko1987]

Silver and green chequerboard! Every alternate panel a different colour

[Ghosty]

Laguna Harlequin?

[Lacquer Peel]

Just thought - if the later 1794cc engine is a lower emission engine, but every Laguna in NI is registered as a 1783cc, does that mean that everyone with a 1.8 Laguna has been charged road tax / VEL based on the potentially higher emissions of the older 1783cc engine?

 

Makes me wonder if every Laguna owner isn't due a bit of a refund?

Most Mk1 Lagunas avoid emissions based road tax.

[Pillock]

Aye, emissions based was 2001-onwards wasn't it? Prior to that it was >1549cc and 1549cc> so both capacities pay the same.

[Parky]

Most Mk1 Lagunas avoid emissions based road tax.

Ah, good point. Best let Perry Mason know he can stand down

[Datsuncog]

On 4/13/2018 at 7:54 AM, Lacquer Peel said:

Most Mk1 Lagunas avoid emissions based road tax.

Most of my Mk1 Lagunas avoid emissions entirely, through the simple act of not running.

 

Still a bit confused about this capacity nonsense - but now leaning towards Wikipedia being incorrect, as artdjones' sleuthing has indicated that 8v 1783cc units are indeed to be found outside of my driveway too.

Something incorrect on the internet, who'd ever have thought it?

I'm shocked, shocked I say.

Planning on beaking out of work a smidge early this afternoon, to see if I can prise the replacement dizzy cap from the reluctant clutches of Royal Mail and get it bucked on. Updates, and possibly video footage of triumph/despair, may follow.

[Guest Hooli]

The  most surprising thing about emissions taxed frog cars is any of them stayed running long enough to complete the test.

[Datsuncog]

Well, here we are again.

Another damp night, another twentysomething Laguna with the bonnet up... déja vu is becoming a bit of a thing round here.

Let's rewind a bit.

Leaping heroically* from the train, I high-tailed it on up to the Royal Mail sorting office and received... this.

Errrrr... a few moments of confusion, but then I realised 'twas merely an outer box. Inside - as hoped.

And the all-important centre contact was where it ought to be...

Always reassuring to see that 'Made in Italy' mark on electrical components, I find.

So, after dinner, out I skipped to KAZ. The interior is still dripping in anti-mould stuff, so I'm gonna need to be doing some serious drying out... but! First things first, yeah?

First up: comparison. The two dizzy caps ain't identical, but they seem functionally close, anyway.

I still can't get the bloody rotor arm off, and since there literally doesn't seem to be one closer than Lithuania, I'm not in a hurry to force it, at this stage anyway. I satisfy myself with taking the green mank off using a fibreglass pencil; it's not great, but it'll do for now.

I also stick in a new air filter, since I have one to hand and need to get the airbox off to access the dizzy cap's retaining Torx bolts.

Finally, I empty some of a can of fresh(er) petrol into KAZ's scantily-filled tank. Some I pour down the side of the car, and the rest I pour over my shoes, because I definitely* mean to do that.

There's not much else to do then, as the light falls, except put the key in and see whether anything happens. It's another Schrodinger's Laguna - it's both perfect and fucked simultanously, right up to the point the starter turns over.

Well, knock me down with a feather. Straight off. Boom!

Okay, it sounds bloody awful - but then it always sounded like that. The nuck-nuck-nuck from the top end has been there for 30k now in my gentle hands and seems to get no better or worse, despite the occasional Molyslip gargle poured down the filler neck.

I take it up and down the driveway a few times - gears select as they should, brakes grind horribly but seem to work. All the electrics are doing what they should, too. There's a rather odd tinkling sound from behind the dashboard though, like a charming relaxing water feature, although surprisingly it neither charms nor relaxes me... maybe there's a reason the carpet is damp beyond the open window and useless doorseals?

Also, there's a fair bit of white smoke from the exhaust as the engine reaches normal operating temperature. I can well imagine the exhaust's full of water after nine months of disuse, and it does seem to clear after a few minutes of gently puffing... or am I being horribly naive here?

Anyway... these are questions for tomorrow... Stage 1 is complete; KAZ does indeed live.

I also obtained a fill of heating oil and bled the air out of the boiler, so the house is heating up for the first time in 48 hours.

All in all, I think it's not unreasonable for me to reach into the fridge for one of these...

And maybe sip it genteely while having a listen to this...

All while wearing my ver' special King of Shite tee.

Wins have been a bit thin on the ground of late, so I think I'll take this one tonight. A good Friday night to you all, kind folks!