Zel's Motoring Adventures...Peugeot, Renault, Rover, Trabant, Invacar & A Sinclair C5 - 13/06 - General tinkering until it started raining...

[Zelandeth]

2 hours ago, bobdisk said:

@Zelandeth This looks like it could be a good upgrade for the Daf ! Where did you get it and how much was it ??

Just over £40 in this case, from eBay.  Though I'm sure if you just searched for the Bosch part number there are probably a bunch of sources.

eBay link

[LightBulbFun]

21 hours ago, Zelandeth said:

Today's delivery for the fleet:

Which contained this.

Quick consultation with the workshop manual allowed me to confirm which wires go where.

Plus a trial fit showed the mounting bolts to be exactly the same as on the current regulator.

The only obvious difference is that three of the terminals on the new one require spade connectors whereas they're all horseshoe connectors bolted onto the original unit, so I'll need to re-terminate three of the lines.  I'll likely do the generator output one too unless it looks absolutely pristine.  There isn't much slack in this wiring so I don't want to go trimming ends off anything I don't have to though.

Interesting to see the new unit is made up of two distinct modules.

I'm guessing the smarts of the unit are in the lower bit and there are some chunky semiconductors mounted to the upper part which actually do the work.  Sadly in the absence of owning an X-ray machine that's as far as my examination can really go.

Unfortunately I've run out of steam for tasks requiring brain power today, so it's just going to have to wait till the weekend for me to install.

Given the potential for me to break expensive or difficult to replace hardware if I foul it up, I'd rather not be messing with things like this when I'm not feeling 100%.

Should be a pretty simple job though.  I'll likely take the opportunity to upgrade the wire between the B+ terminal and the positive lug on the starter solenoid (which is where the battery positive is tapped from).  It looks rather weedy to me for something that's intended to see up to 20A if the generator is running flat out.  Given there are two terminals provided on the new regulator I may just run a dedicated heavier gauge line direct to the battery for the charging side of things.

2 hours ago, Zelandeth said:

Just over £40 in this case, from eBay.  Though I'm sure if you just searched for the Bosch part number there are probably a bunch of sources.

eBay link

interesting stuff! I look forward to hearing how it works! I also wonder if its any different to this or if its just the same product? https://prokschi.at/bosch-regler-20a-14v.html

[Zelandeth]

23 hours ago, LightBulbFun said:

interesting stuff! I look forward to hearing how it works! I also wonder if its any different to this or if its just the same product? https://prokschi.at/bosch-regler-20a-14v.html

That's a slightly different version, and is the only 20A specific one I've seen.  Though given how these things work, I don't think it will do any harm being slightly overrated.  Assuming my understanding is right anyway.

If you're going for originality though that would be a better bet as it looks far closer to the original one and likely has the same wiring positions - I never spotted it originally as it's not specifically labelled there as an electronic controller aside from buried in the description.  Shame the cover isn't held down by the same screw as the original or you could potentially have transferred that over too to make it look less obviously new.

It's also about four times the price of what I bought...so I'm going to stick with this and see how it goes for now.

-- -- --

Installing the new regulator wasn't the worst job at all.  Bit fiddly but not hard.

As with any real electrical work, step 1 is to disconnect the battery and tuck the negative connection well out the way. The positive is also disconnected here as the isolator is also open. The only thing that bypasses that is the supply to the clock and only the clock, and that's got a 1A fuse on only a few inches from the battery.

I attacked everything in the vicinity with a bit of carb cleaner to try to get some of the near 50 years of gunge off the wiring so I could actually see what colours they were. Rather than black, black, black or slightly reddish black.

Quickly came to the conclusion that the generator output terminal was indeed going to want a new terminal fitted along with the rest, despite it being the correct style for the new unit.

Aside from those broken strands, I was very easily able to wiggle the wire around in this crimp - and that's meant to have been carrying the full output current from the generator.  Won't have been helping anything.

None of the connections looked exactly stellar really, though being only a few months short of 50 years old we can forgive that I think.

One extracted, crusty old regulator.

It was then a "simple" matter of dropping the new unit in, crimping some new terminals on and connecting everything up.

This was a slight pain on account of the new unit having the generator field and B+ terminal locations swapped, and the wiring being basically exactly long enough for the original.  Thankfully the generator loom is separate, so I was able to wriggle enough extra slack out of it to allow things to reach.  The output line is now a bit long, but I can easily sort that - I'd like to replace the inline fuse holder with a blade type anyway so would be a good opportunity to do that.  I know some folks will scream at their monitors at my replacing the glass fuses with blade types - but *none* of my local motor factors stock glass fuses in anything other than the 4A rating used in some old battery chargers, so I want to switch to blade fuses throughout so I don't get stranded somewhere because of a blown fuse.

It should be noted that while my crimping tool produces exceptionally scruffy looking crimps, in my experience they have always been absolutely reliable. Unlike the nice neat looking ones from three separate fancy ratcheting tools, including quite an expensive one, which I've had pull apart on several occasions.  So I stick with "scruffy but reliable." I'll be going back and putting some heat shrink over the joins to the terminals anyway.

Double, triple and quadruple checked my wiring matched the directions, and added a new direct link between the B+ terminal and the starter solenoid positive post that's more than rated to handle the full output current from the generator. The wiring from there to the battery has already long since been upgraded to something reasonably chunky as the originals that came with the car were both pretty well rotten and were skinnier than the lines from my cheap Halfords battery charger. Given the locked rotor amp rating for the starter is 300A, I imagine the original leads would have got a little toasty and dropped quite a few volts.

Needs tidying a bit, but it's installed.

The unnerving bit was of course reconnecting the battery and seeing if anything would smoke. Thankfully it didn't.

Of course the £43.50 question then would be once the engine was started, whether the generator would actually generate and if it would in fact be regulated in anything resembling a sane manner.

Previously at idle it would sit resolutely off charge, usually showing just under 12V on the gauge.  Now we see about 12.5V.  Wasn't expecting to see any output at idle so that's a bit of a bonus.

Pretty much as soon as you get above idle the voltage immediately jumps sharply up to a healthy 13.5V.

As the revs are brought up further it will creep up a little further to 14V on the dot.  Exactly as it should do.

Even better, the generator can actually keep up when the headlights are on, which it couldn't before. The general behaviour just looks far more reasonable.

Previously it would just about start generating appreciably above 2000rpm or so, with the voltage just creeping slowly upwards as the revs went up - to nearly 16V at 60 or so, can't remember exactly what that equates to, but somewhere around 4000rpm.

 

Of course with the new unit in and working, you know what this means...autopsy time!

Well the first obvious sign of issues with the old regulator is that the ballast resistor core has cracked. Though the actual wire *looks* intact. I've not checked it with a meter though.

The cover had obviously never been off because the wax seal over the screw head was still intact.

I was quite surprised when I pulled the cover off given the condition of the exterior.

A bit of moisture has obviously got in, but given the state of the exterior not anywhere near as much as I'd have expected.

Quite an impressive contraption. Though kind of redundant in these days of high power semiconductors really. I would be curious to compare the performance of a mechanical and electronic regulator in actual working order, though I imagine it's long term stability and efficiency where the electronic version will really win out.

Will be interesting to see how this behaves when actually driving, but static testing seems promising.

[LightBulbFun]

33 minutes ago, Zelandeth said:

That's a slightly different version, and is the only 20A specific one I've seen.  Though given how these things work, I don't think it will do any harm being slightly overrated.  Assuming my understanding is right anyway.

If you're going for originality though that would be a better bet as it looks far closer to the original one and likely has the same wiring positions - I never spotted it originally as it's not specifically labelled there as an electronic controller aside from buried in the description.  Shame the cover isn't held down by the same screw as the original or you could potentially have transferred that over too to make it look less obviously new.

It's also about four times the price of what I bought...so I'm going to stick with this and see how it goes for now.

 

yeah! I was just wondering just a generic photo and if what would actually show up is what you have, as you say the description aint fantastic! but while googling about I also came across https://www.autoelectricsupplies.co.uk/product/707

which seems to list a few different amperage ratings and confirms they are solid state replacements which just look old style, still quite pricey sadly! but good to know what options are out there  (I wonder why they even bother with different amperage ratings when the prices are all about the same anyway!)

having an over-rated 30A regulator is probably not a bad anything anyway, for when you get that massive sub-woofer installed in/under the seat

33 minutes ago, Zelandeth said:

Installing the new regulator wasn't the worst job at all.  Bit fiddly but not hard.

As with any real electrical work, step 1 is to disconnect the battery and tuck the negative connection well out the way. The positive is also disconnected here as the isolator is also open. The only thing that bypasses that is the supply to the clock and only the clock, and that's got a 1A fuse on only a few inches from the battery.

I attacked everything in the vicinity with a bit of carb cleaner to try to get some of the near 50 years of gunge off the wiring so I could actually see what colours they were. Rather than black, black, black or slightly reddish black.

Quickly came to the conclusion that the generator output terminal was indeed going to want a new terminal fitted along with the rest, despite it being the correct style for the new unit.

Aside from those broken strands, I was very easily able to wiggle the wire around in this crimp - and that's meant to have been carrying the full output current from the generator.  Won't have been helping anything.

None of the connections looked exactly stellar really, though being only a few months short of 50 years old we can forgive that I think.

One extracted, crusty old regulator.

It was then a "simple" matter of dropping the new unit in, crimping some new terminals on and connecting everything up.

This was a slight pain on account of the new unit having the generator field and B+ terminal locations swapped, and the wiring being basically exactly long enough for the original.  Thankfully the generator loom is separate, so I was able to wriggle enough extra slack out of it to allow things to reach.  The output line is now a bit long, but I can easily sort that - I'd like to replace the inline fuse holder with a blade type anyway so would be a good opportunity to do that.  I know some folks will scream at their monitors at my replacing the glass fuses with blade types - but *none* of my local motor factors stock glass fuses in anything other than the 4A rating used in some old battery chargers, so I want to switch to blade fuses throughout so I don't get stranded somewhere because of a blown fuse.

It should be noted that while my crimping tool produces exceptionally scruffy looking crimps, in my experience they have always been absolutely reliable. Unlike the nice neat looking ones from three separate fancy ratcheting tools, including quite an expensive one, which I've had pull apart on several occasions.  So I stick with "scruffy but reliable." I'll be going back and putting some heat shrink over the joins to the terminals anyway.

Double, triple and quadruple checked my wiring matched the directions, and added a new direct link between the B+ terminal and the starter solenoid positive post that's more than rated to handle the full output current from the generator. The wiring from there to the battery has already long since been upgraded to something reasonably chunky as the originals that came with the car were both pretty well rotten and were skinnier than the lines from my cheap Halfords battery charger. Given the locked rotor amp rating for the starter is 300A, I imagine the original leads would have got a little toasty and dropped quite a few volts.

Needs tidying a bit, but it's installed.

The unnerving bit was of course reconnecting the battery and seeing if anything would smoke. Thankfully it didn't.

Of course the £43.50 question then would be once the engine was started, whether the generator would actually generate and if it would in fact be regulated in anything resembling a sane manner.

Previously at idle it would sit resolutely off charge, usually showing just under 12V on the gauge.  Now we see about 12.5V.  Wasn't expecting to see any output at idle so that's a bit of a bonus.

Pretty much as soon as you get above idle the voltage immediately jumps sharply up to a healthy 13.5V.

As the revs are brought up further it will creep up a little further to 14V on the dot.  Exactly as it should do.

YouTube link goes here...

Even better, the generator can actually keep up when the headlights are on, which it couldn't before. The general behaviour just looks far more reasonable.

Previously it would just about start generating appreciably above 2000rpm or so, with the voltage just creeping slowly upwards as the revs went up - to nearly 16V at 60 or so, can't remember exactly what that equates to, but somewhere around 4000rpm.

 

Of course with the new unit in and working, you know what this means...autopsy time!

Well the first obvious sign of issues with the old regulator is that the ballast resistor core has cracked. Though the actual wire *looks* intact. I've not checked it with a meter though.

The cover had obviously never been off because the wax seal over the screw head was still intact.

I was quite surprised when I pulled the cover off given the condition of the exterior.

A bit of moisture has obviously got in, but given the state of the exterior not anywhere near as much as I'd have expected.

Quite an impressive contraption. Though kind of redundant in these days of high power semiconductors really. I would be curious to compare the performance of a mechanical and electronic regulator in actual working order, though I imagine it's long term stability and efficiency where the electronic version will really win out.

Will be interesting to see how this behaves when actually driving, but static testing seems promising.

Really awesome to see the upgrade seems to be working well! and has even improved idle performance somewhat, given that I will be doing a lot of city centre bimbling with REV I think ill be putting this on the list of things to proactively upgrade on her   (along with dual circuit brakes at some point!) well id like to actually get a volt meter on REV proper and see how her current setup does, but still the modern solid-state one sounds very good indeed!

 

[3VOM]

10 hours ago, Zelandeth said:

 

That hold down strap is a little to close to the positive terminal for my comfort. 

[Zelandeth]

1 hour ago, 3VOM said:

That hold down strap is a little to close to the positive terminal for my comfort. 

Fair point, I'll scoot the battery forward a touch next time I'm in there.  Ideally the strap would be a bit narrower, but it's what I had handy.

[High Jetter]

Strap is fabric, though?

[Zelandeth]

3 minutes ago, High Jetter said:

Strap is fabric, though?

Yep, it's a strip of seatbelt.  If it got wet though it would become somewhat conductive - not enough to do any damage at only 12V, but if left for a while it could present a parasitic battery drain.  Comes more under the heading of "let's not tempt fate" more than "OMG that's dangerous!" to my mind.

[Zelandeth]

3 hours ago, 3VOM said:

That hold down strap is a little to close to the positive terminal for my comfort. 

Thanks for pointing that out, situation has now been improved.

That's about as good as it's going to get while keeping the battery fully on the tray.

[Zelandeth]

Having failed to read the instructions properly when I set the valve clearances last week (I missed that the instructions specifically stated a *tight* sliding fit), I went back in and did the job again today.  It takes all of about 15 minutes so no excuse not to.

If you ever wanted a demonstration of the efficacy of the detergent properties in good quality modern oils, here you go.  This was what the top end of the engine looked like about a week ago, the oil was changed later the same day as I recall.

Fast forward to this morning and about 100 miles since the oil was changed.

It's plainly obvious to the naked eye even at a quick glance how much of the varnish on the rocker arms and around the head has been cleaned away.

The oil that was drained wasn't horrible either, definitely due a change, but not like the black ink that was drained out of a certain Mercedes S123.

Be curious to see if this effect continues over the next few hundred miles.

Can't say I can hear any difference now, but at least I know the clearances are properly set by the book.  I guess these engines just are a bit tappy from the top end.  It's not bad by any means, just seems a little conspicuous on a car that is otherwise so refined.

[Zelandeth]

Today I was busy, so not going to be touching the cars save for a run to Toolstation for some cavity wall anchors.

Car on the other hand had a different idea for how I should spend my afternoon.

Great!

That is rather sub optimal.  Just figures as the one filter I've still got sitting in the boot waiting to change is the fuel filter!

The guilty party:

Yep, that would do it.

That hose was fitted in July last year according to the paperwork.

Completely aside from the fact it's dissolved away to nothing, it's just normal fuel hose - not high pressure rated for use on injection systems.  So shouldn't ever have been installed in this location anyway.  Yes, this was done by a garage.

Oh, no surprises this was holding the hose on at the filter end.

Naturally 8mm isn't a hose size I had in stock.  Cue a run round to Pirtek.

This should do nicely.

I think that should handle the ~50PSI or so this system runs at just fine.

Overkill?  Absolutely.  Do I care?  No.  Fuel systems are not something you cut corners dealing with.

All back together.  Only took 30-40 mins.

The jubilee clip was begrudgingly reused as I don't have a proper fuel hose clip to hand the right size - though it will be there precisely as long as the weekend when I'll be swapping out the fuel filter.  Doing that with the car on ramps though as I can't get at the outlet end with the car on the ground.

Then back to building furniture - and cursing the fact that our walls aren't square.

[Zelandeth]

I've had a couple of people point out that this hose isn't likely long term ethanol safe. Which hacks me off having sought advice from a company whose whole existence is based around selling and making hoses.

My go to usually is ISO7840 A1 Marine grade hose as I *know* that is entirely ethanol safe (and resistant to basically anything short of a direct tactical nuclear strike). However that's not sadly something I can just drive five minutes to somewhere and buy...hence wandering round to Pirtek today.  Last two batches I ordered from online sources were blatantly fake rubbish.

My other choices locally are Halfords (X2) or Motorserv basically...who just have four year old loops of equally nameless hose as Halfords, bundled with the wrong type of hose clamps hanging on the back wall but for three times the price. I'll need to check what Top Gear down in Flitwick have to offer in the fuel line department, but even that's an hour and a half round trip - and today like many days I just didn't have time for that. I've had Bedford Battery recommended to me by many folks - but that's even further afield. I'd figured an actual fluid transfer specialist was a fairly safe local bet.

Have to admit that the nonsense surrounding fuel lines and trying to find what is actually ethanol safe and what isn't, then also sifting through what is fake and what isn't, is really the single set of factors which makes me want to most to just sack this hobby off once and for all and just buy a Tesla and be done with it. It doesn't seem to matter how much money you do or don't spend or how carefully you try to pick stuff out you still either get it wrong or wind up being sent rubbish.  

The one which failed on me today by the way was labelled as SAE J30 R9 - which as far as my reading suggests, should be ethanol safe. Though it's blatantly obvious that the printing on that example means absolutely nothing.

Last lot I actually got in I wound up getting a friend up in Aberdeen go and pick up for me from a marine specialist there and post down to me...which doesn't seem the most efficient solution!

[Zelandeth]

Package has turned up for the Renault.  I'll be looking to get this installed hopefully next weekend.

The one on the car has only done ~1500 miles at this point, but is from 2017 at the latest, and I've been getting the vibe that the parts used in recommissioning weren't all of the best quality available.  So I'd rather have a new timing belt of a known quantity fitted for peace of mind.

A little project I'd like to get done will be to get my Bluetooth to FM transmitter properly installed.  The stereo in this car puts in a very good performance, but currently requires an ugly thing sticking out of the cigarette lighter.  My plan is to hard wire it in here like so...see it?

How about now?

I think that's a nice neat solution.  That little tray would contain the speaker if this car was fitted with the voice synthesis module.  This unit has pause/skip/previous buttons on it so having it accessible in an ergonomic position is worthwhile.  However I despise having "stuff" floating around the dash so having a neat solution like this is right up my street.

I figured I'd have a nose around behind there to see if there was a convenient accessory feed I could tap into.  

Uuh...

What's that big red wire taped together?

Guessing it's the feed to/from what used to be this relay socket.

Not entirely happy with that...the coil feeds are still present at the socket, so I think I may well need to reinstate that relay.  Not quite sure what it actually switches, given the size of the wires it must be something pretty major.  I'd rather have it switch off with the ignition properly.

Annoyingly nothing in the vicinity is switched on the accessory position.  Plenty of permanently live and ignition switched, but I'd really like to be able to use the stereo (which is available in that ignition position).  Even the fuse box which is right below doesn't offer much.

So I reckon splicing into the line coming from the ignition switch itself will probably be the easiest option.  Though will annoyingly require me to pull the cowling off again.

Not expecting a huge amount else going on this week, I've just about got to where I'd hoped to be on the to do list by the end of the weekend courtesy of a chronic fatigue flare up so I've got a lot of catching up to do.  Cars having to take a bit of a back seat for a few days.

[PhilA]

There's always a distinct lack of switched power available. 

Probably because the manufacturer knew people would abuse it and start killing ignition switches.

 

Also, buy a Tesla and find out how fake gray market batteries are when they need changing...

[Zelandeth]

Today we had the family dentist appointment, so all four of us needed to run up to Leicester.

Renault was the obvious choice for this trip as it's about an hour and it's the one car I can carry four adults in in comfort.  Well, in comfort and relative safety.  Van is comfortable enough, but there is only one seat in the back with a belt, and it's a lap belt on a side facing seat.  Caddy rear seats are only really suitable for short runs as they're very cramped.  

Longest single trip I've done in the car yet, so felt like a good milestone to have covered without incident.  Plus first time I've had it on the motorway.  As predicted, very much feels at home there and like a car in which you could cross continents with ease.

Definitely still feels a bit lumpy on light throttle though, most noticeable sitting at a steady 60mph as that's virtually no throttle on the level.  Once under some load it's fine, but a little lumpy on very light loads.  Definitely one to keep on the "requires further investigation" list.  Not panicking about it though.  To be fair I've not even done a really thorough check of the vacuum lines and such yet!

Was really nice to get out for a longer drive in the car.  Discovering I need to go back to get no less than seven fillings done was less nice!  Guess I'll have to see which car I feel like taking on those days...

[Dobloseven]

Drop in, if you're in Leicester at all and have the time. Always happy to meet another 25 owner, or any shiter come to that. 

[Zelandeth]

On 3/5/2023 at 3:19 PM, Dobloseven said:

Drop in, if you're in Leicester at all and have the time. Always happy to meet another 25 owner, or any shiter come to that. 

Will keep that in mind.  Sadly 99% of the times I'm there it's for the dentist - so I'm either on the clock on the way there or legging it home afterwards, usually with my face sufficiently numbed up as to render speech seriously challenging.  Plus my nerves are usually sufficiently shattered by then I just want to get home and hide for a week.

Never realised you were so nearby though, we will absolutely need to meet up and get the two cars together one day.  

-- -- --

Definitely doing better than I was over the last week, but did struggle a bit at the weekend so I've been trying to take things pretty easy.  Today's only "garage work" was to nip the rocker cover up just a touch more as it was weeping oil from the back corner.  Seems to have stopped now.

I gave the engine bay a bit of a general wipe down while I was there and I think it's starting to get vaguely towards being presentable again.

At least it doesn't scream "neglected old car" under there any more.

I also had a decent hunt around for any vacuum leaks, however all the lines (and the caps on a couple of unused ports) seem to be in good shape and I didn't get any response spraying around the carb clean.  So I think we're okay there.

Evaluated my fuel usage over the last week or so, including the run up to Leicester and back - 36.8MPG - I'll take that any day of the week for a car this size, especially carrying four passengers and including a few days of running around MK on the same tank.

Know a couple of folks have been in touch regarding some parts - catching up on replying to things like that is very much on the roster for this week.  I've fallen hopelessly behind with Email/PMs over the last couple of weeks.

[rusty_vw_man]

So, fuel hose. I agree, it’s a bit of a minefield, and even the right stuff can be a bit hit and miss. 

There is a VW chap who has started a sideline selling cohline (sp?) hose, given the propensity of old vws to go up in smoke. 

https://cohpro.com/#mobile-navigation

prices seem fair to me (but not cheap!), but everything he sells is good quality and genuine, so at least you know what you are getting for the cash. He’s not round the corner like pirtek though!

[Zelandeth]

Not been much going on lately.  Slight war wound on the Caddy recently which I'll need to get sorted.

On the plus side it will mean I get rid of the annoying chip that's been bugging me since the day I got it.

A rather important package arrived a week or so back.

Actually my package returned to me with the contents having been worked on.

One repaired Invacar hub.  We've established that the outer end of the stud is 3/8" 20tpi BSF.  Which is NOT the same as Mini etc, which is 3/8" BSF - but 24tpi.  

The whole threaded part of the stud on this newer style hub seems to be the same thread, so they look to be constructed differently to the early ones.  Given the way the mating face was countersunk, the threads were doing very little beyond locating things.  The stud was structurally held in by a good pool of weld at the rear.  So quite a different construction to the old ones.  So a bit more difficult to work with than the early ones as drilling the studs out is really the only way to go.

The repair was done using some high tensile threaded bar stock and some machined collars to form the shoulders that were on the original studs.  Should be far stronger than the originals.

This will be going in to replace the damaged one on TPA as soon as I have the opportunity.

Though I do need to try to find some wheel nuts.  I did have dozens originally, but have a horrible feeling that bag may have left with KPL.  I'll need to do further digging in the garage as there may well still be some in there somewhere...

It will be really nice to have that ticked off.  I've never fully trusted my somewhat bodged hub.

I'll be discussing with the gent who has done this work for me to see whether they are willing to do any more for other folks down the road (or indeed for me, as I'll likely get the offside one done as a preventative measure too if possible) and report back as I know I'm far from the only one with Invacar wheel stud issues.

[LightBulbFun]

very awesome! given how long this saga has dragged on for I am glad to see it come to a close for you at least  

 

but forgive for I am struggling to make heads or tales of a couple things!

27 minutes ago, Zelandeth said:

One repaired Invacar hub.  We've established that the outer end of the stud is 3/8" 20tpi BSF.  Which is NOT the same as Mini etc, which is 3/8" BSF - but 24tpi.  

first of all I thought/AFAIK Mini's etc the wheel facing part where all 3/8th UNF? which a quick google seems to backup https://www.rallynuts.com/rally-car-wheel-studs/grayston-38-unf-mini-wheel-stud-80mm-long.html

and that on the Model 70 it was the part that wound into the hub which was a pesky 3/8 inch BSF

so it was 3/8th UNF to 3/8th BSF stud that we all needed?

27 minutes ago, Zelandeth said:

The whole threaded part of the stud on this newer style hub seems to be the same thread, so they look to be constructed differently to the early ones.  Given the way the mating face was countersunk, the threads were doing very little beyond locating things.  The stud was structurally held in by a good pool of weld at the rear.  So quite a different construction to the old ones.  So a bit more difficult to work with than the early ones as drilling the studs out is really the only way to go.

and here im a bit confused also,  are you saying on the later half moon hubs the thread type in the hub is the same as the wheels/nuts, so 3/8th UNF for the *hub* also?  (and so are you saying the studs have the same thread throughout their entire length, past the shoulder into the hub etc?)

if so thats very interesting, because the wheel studs are only listed once, they are not distinct for any older or newer hub types (unless of course these later hubs came in after 1986 and we are missing an approved repairer letter/special note letter that would of been included with the hubs in their box like other modification/retrofit kits contain)

EDIT: I just realised, do you mean to say the type of threads used of the stud on the newer hub is the same as the old fully circular hub, so no change in the type of threads used between the half-moon hubs and fully circular hubs?

[Zelandeth]

The measurements are being quoted from the message exchange.  I'm going to try to confirm those before quoting them definitely - and will amend them to my website for future reference too.  A huge chunk of what we've had so far has been pure theory or based on measurements from finest Chinesium tools.

The earlier hub style definitely used two different types of thread.  The studs I had removed had *visibly* different threads on either side of the shoulder.  The comments above refer to those removed from the LATER style of hub.  

My interpretation, based on how the studs were firmly welded in place on the newer style is that they simply weren't intended to be replaced individually - the whole hub would just be swapped, so no need to change the part no for the studs, as they weren't intended to be changed. 

On the earlier style one I was pretty easily able to crack off the spot weld and wind out the studs on the older style using only hand tools.  So I suspect the studs are different between the two types, just only one is designed to be changed.

Watch this space - I do intend to fully confirm all the exact details of measurements involved as there's been so much guesswork involved here, not to mention me trying to remember nonsense from two years ago.  One of the reasons I would like to get the offside hub sent off and looked at too would be so I can have someone with proper tools and knowhow to measure up the studs on the older style setup too.  That way we can know for certain what the story is for both setups.

[Zelandeth]

Not much to report today, not feeling great and only had an hour or so free really.

Did finally get around to doing the oil and filter change on the Caddy which has been due for the last month and a bit.

While checking things over this badly perished bit of fuel line was also replaced.

The rest of the factory rubber lines could do with changing too as they're just starting to go - but that requires fighting with those spring type hose clamps which I definitely didn't have the patience for today.  I hate those things with a passion as they're just so fiddly, even if you do have the right tool.

All back together now.

I'm still at a loss as to explain why for a period of a couple of weeks at one point it was going through oil at a vast rate (like it would go from full to empty on the dipstick in less than a tank of fuel) then it just stopped...I've not had to top it up once since and that's several thousand miles ago now.

Likewise the coolant level dropped from full to below the minimum line between the weekly (ish) checks just the once but has never budged since that one time.  Most odd.

[Zelandeth]

Very quick, albeit hard to photograph fix today.

Air intake hose on the Renault reattached to the little plastic duct that's supposed to channel cool air into the intake the hose was previously dangling loose pulling air from the engine bay.

It actually took a surprisingly long time to sort that as the hose was a really snug fit on the ductwork.  Got there in the end though.  Probably will make hardly if any difference, but I could see it every time I opened the bonnet and it was bugging me.  There is an intake temperature sensor between the air filter and throttle though so it may help our efficiency.  Guess time will tell.

Something I utterly *failed* to find this afternoon though was the horn.  I want to replace it, as currently it has an absolutely pathetic little "meep" which sounds like it's been taken off a budget end 80s moped.  According to the manual this would have had a twin air horn set up from the factory.  I've got a suitable replacement sitting in the garage, and figured I'd chuck that on today.  Except I can't find the horn!  Nearside front is the best I've got.  I need to borrow someone to push the stalk while I stick my head under the front of the car.  Currently guessing that it's hidden in the void behind the bumper underneath one of the headlights (you can't see into these areas easily).  

I have noticed that the bumper is loose on the nearside, so need to investigate that anyway.  May just be the one mounting bolt being a little loose, was out of time before I could look into that though.

I've still not managed to track down a set of drop links.  So I'm going to have a go at re-bushing the original ones.

I did decide to actually try the dealer as I had nothing to lose really.  Hats off to the Milton Keynes Westcroft Renault parts desk, while they couldn't actually track anything useful down (unsurprisingly) they absolutely couldn't have been more helpful and pleasant to deal with.  They also printed off the 70 or so pages of parts listed they did have on the system, which by no means a full listing does mean that I have part numbers on hand for quite a lot of things now.

This drawing may also be handy when I come to do battle with the sunroof.

Really grateful to them for that.  Even though they knew I wasn't likely to be spending any money there they still went out their way to be helpful.  

Fair contrast to VW, who treated me like something they'd want to scrape off the bottom of their shoe when I had the audacity to ask about parts rather than spend £40K on their shiny modern torture devices.

 

[AnnoyingPentium]

16 minutes ago, Zelandeth said:

Fair contrast to VW, who treated me like something they'd want to scrape off the bottom of their shoe when I had the audacity to ask about parts rather than spend £40K on their shiny modern torture devices.

Skoda did this to me as well, twice (coz VAG group innit). I haven't went back to that dealer and don't ever intend on doing so.

[CaptainBoom]

23 hours ago, AnnoyingPentium said:

Skoda did this to me as well, twice (coz VAG group innit). I haven't went back to that dealer and don't ever intend on doing so.

Ditto, I recall going into a VW dealership in 2005 or so in Stevenage asking for a fog light switch for my 1991 Polo, and the blokes behind the counter just started laughing.  I felt a bit humiliated TBH.
I discovered eBay and old school motor factors for parts and never went back.

Good to see that the Renault dealers helped you out though Zel, proper customer service!

[Zelandeth]

Real quick one today.  

You may recall a while ago something disintegrated in the Renault's sunroof leading to the rear edge not raising to the fully closed position.

Thanks to the drain pan being reasonably deep this didn't cause any leakage issues - what it did cause however was a god awful rattle and a whistle above 40mph.  A sunroof that doesn't open I can live with if need be, one which makes a racket right in my left ear, not so much.

Something has gone seriously awry in the mech, a lot of bits of broken black plastic have fallen out and the sled is no longer properly attached to the panel.  It will all need to come out to be investigated at some point, however for now we've gone for a simple solution.

Foam board to the rescue.  

Good enough for now.  I need to go after the trim panel with the fabric adhesive as it's separated from the board a bit.  Will wait to deal with that until the roof itself is sorted though.

For now though it no longer rattles or whistles so I'll call that a win.

[PhilA]

Lumpy Douvrin at idle will be a marginal sensor. 

Couple a poisoned lambda sensor with an engine temperature sensor that's gone soft, you'll be in open loop running lean. If still closed loop a slight hunt is not unusual but nothing excessive. 

Check what the burn looks like with colortune or check the CO level. 

Also test the fuel rail pressure and regulator, they're sensitive to the pressure being correct. The adjustment map is rebuilt from scratch every time you switch the ignition off so if things are quite a bit out of whack it takes a few minutes to readjust, and may never fully reach a stable idle.

Caveats of pre-programmed fuel maps.

Phil

[EyesWeldedShut]

22 hours ago, CaptainBoom said:

Ditto, I recall going into a VW dealership in 2005 or so in Stevenage asking for a fog light switch for my 1991 Polo, and the blokes behind the counter just started laughing.  I felt a bit humiliated TBH.
I discovered eBay and old school motor factors for parts and never went back.

Good to see that the Renault dealers helped you out though Zel, proper customer service!

Local Pug dealers  - came up trumps for me just before COVID - 'have you got 2 x steering rack stretch  bolts for a 2006 Berlingo?'
'Nay lad (or Welsh equivalent) we're a Peugeot dealer. Ho Ho Ho' said the old(er than me fella)
'What'd you do? Cut them off with a grinder? Ho Ho Ho?'
Tappity tap on his microfiche machine though.. may have been a computer or an abacus - it is West Wales after all.
'There's tidy, be here in 48 hours, £3.12p each'
And they were - bloody good service.

Same guys quoted me for a clutch on a 206 about ten years ago 'are you sitting down? Yes? £750. That's what the computer says'
Then gave me a list of three local indie garages one of whom did it for £250 ish.

 

[Zelandeth]

1 hour ago, PhilA said:

Lumpy Douvrin at idle will be a marginal sensor. 

Couple a poisoned lambda sensor with an engine temperature sensor that's gone soft, you'll be in open loop running lean. If still closed loop a slight hunt is not unusual but nothing excessive. 

Check what the burn looks like with colortune or check the CO level. 

Also test the fuel rail pressure and regulator, they're sensitive to the pressure being correct. The adjustment map is rebuilt from scratch every time you switch the ignition off so if things are quite a bit out of whack it takes a few minutes to readjust, and may never fully reach a stable idle.

Caveats of pre-programmed fuel maps.

Phil

No lambda sensors here.    Though checking the fuel pressure probably isn't a bad shout, especially as the fuel pump isn't exactly quiet.  I've never actually checked the CO level...quick check there.

Speaking of fuel pressure, the hose between the rail and the pressure regulator looks like it could well be original.  That will be "fun" to change given it's well and truly buried under the inlet manifold.  Thanks for reminding me of that.

Seems to be absolutely fine under load, just at idle and on very light throttle it's lumpy.  50mph motorway sections are particularly unpleasant currently.

The crank sensor isn't entirely without suspicion in my mind either.  Has to be worth at least checking it's not covered in metallic gunk, especially given it's so easily accessible on this engine.

[PhilA]

15 hours ago, Zelandeth said:

No lambda sensors here.    Though checking the fuel pressure probably isn't a bad shout, especially as the fuel pump isn't exactly quiet.  I've never actually checked the CO level...quick check there.

Speaking of fuel pressure, the hose between the rail and the pressure regulator looks like it could well be original.  That will be "fun" to change given it's well and truly buried under the inlet manifold.  Thanks for reminding me of that.

Seems to be absolutely fine under load, just at idle and on very light throttle it's lumpy.  50mph motorway sections are particularly unpleasant currently.

The crank sensor isn't entirely without suspicion in my mind either.  Has to be worth at least checking it's not covered in metallic gunk, especially given it's so easily accessible on this engine.

You're on the cusp of Renix and regular OBD2 style engine management. Check again, Renix uses a Lambda sensor for closed loop operation. Mine was a mile and a half down the exhaust pipe.