Schaefft's Bargain Barge Extravaganza - Do I really need more cars? - MG ZT-T190+

[loserone]

It's also a great album.  

[Schaefft]

8 minutes ago, loserone said:

It's also a great album.  

I'm listening to it right now.

[Dabooka]

12 hours ago, loserone said:

It's also a great album.  

Can you believe I’ve never heard it?

I’ll fire up Spotify

[DVee8]

6 hours ago, Dabooka said:

Can you believe I’ve never heard it?

I’ll fire up Spotify

You need to  try Steve McQueen 

some say it's a better album.

 

[Schaefft]

Mot passed, picked up the car with a low coolant message so there is a leak somewhere after all and I didn't dream it. Let's hope it's not internal...

With the current weather outside and local flooding on the way back the Cadillac proved to be a capable boat.

Collection of the new member of fleet tomorrow, surprisingly the rain is forecast to stop so I might even get some open air action. Collection thread here: 

 

[Matty]

37 minutes ago, Schaefft said:

Mot passed, picked up the car with a low coolant message so there is a leak somewhere after all and I didn't dream it. Let's hope it's not internal...

With the current weather outside and local flooding on the way back the Cadillac proved to be a capable boat.

Collection of the new member of fleet tomorrow, surprisingly the rain is forecast to stop so I might even get some open air action. Collection thread here: 

 

Weirdly excited about this one. Hope you get on with it 👍

[Schaefft]

As most of you will have seen, the BMW Z3 collection was very successful with this turning out to be a very lucky purchase. The car drives great and after I've finally had a proper look at the massive amount of service history (which wasn't even mentioned, Mathewsons really seems to have undersold the car) I do know why.

I basically have every document, including road tax reminders and most tax discs, all MOTs, repair receipts etc. from the moment the first owner did a test drive all the way to when I won it at auction. The car had 4 previous owners, with the first owner (with the longest name ever) buying it at the Dick Lovett BMW dealership in Bristol (being a bit salty about what must have been a somewhat disorganized test drive), who then sold it at 3 years old to the 2nd owner who had it another 3 years. The car gradually made it way up North, with the next woman owner having it for the next 11 years (yearly oil change despite hardly any miles), until the last owner bought it in 2017 for his wife. That's also when the car received a lot of mechanical attention with many of the weak spots around the engine and suspension now already dealt with, which is great news.

 

It will no doubt need a little tlc as the check engine light is coming on after a few minutes, so is the airbag light. None of these are usually hard to sort problems though and as long as the body is solid (haven't had a proper look yet but Im sure it will be, was waxoyled only last year as well) I think we have a great example in an excellent spec, low mileage and excellent history for a bargain price. Makes me shake my head knowing that a much less desirable 1.9 4-cylinder with albeit very low miles but worse spec sold for over 4 times as much on the same day lol.

With it quickly getting colder outside it probably won't see too much action over the winter months, I definitely will keep it off the salty roads. I'll make a list of things that need sorting soon, I will probably think about getting the optional exterior chrome line covers for the windscreen frame and the wood decor for the inside. I might be lucky and find an extended leather package dash and decent floor mats for it as well, that should help make the inside feel a little more upmarket.

As an additional bonus, this is the first time my girlfriend actually suggested that we should share ownership of a car😂

In other news, the Citroen XM is finally put into daily driver duty! Time flies, I bought the car from HMC over 2 months ago while on holiday in Greece. Unfortunately it didn't seem to enjoy standing for so long as it ran like absolutely garbage the first half of my 20 mile journey. As it eventually cleared up, and the misfire currently doesn't appear to come back, I would very much suspect condensation inside the distributor cap, an issue that is plaguing so many 90s Mercedes owners including myself in the past. Luckily running the car frequently or buying a new o-ring seal usually resolves these issues.

I'm already in the middle of sorting the most annoying/easiest issues it has, thanks again for everyone helping in my Wanted XM parts thread pointing me in the right direction. More updates on that soon. Have some photos of the massive concentration of shite I have now caused in my street. A house move cannot come soon enough!

[Schaefft]

As mentioned above, the XM has now become the daily in preparation for a longer trip to the Lake District end of next week.

Today it was transporting precious cargo:

I've also had some time to figure out some of the switch gear, despite all of Citroen's efforts not all of it was clear to me straight away. What does the large arrow button with the car's silhouette do? Why is there a bright red prominently located LED always illuminated? Many questions and no answers...

I like the green backlighting of the instruments at night. No clue what the dial on the right is supposed to indicate though, I can't even decipher what the icon is supposed to represent. I guess things are fine as long as we aren't in the red. Fortunately the ABS light is now off (ABS tested and confirmed to be working!), the car continues to heal itself.

The car seems to believe its 61 degrees Celsius outside. I'm hoping that the engine management actually doesn't use the exterior temp sensor for calculating air/fuel ratios.

I've also noticed that a previous owner blacked out the chrome around the door guard trim and bumpers. Considering everything already being silver I actually like the look. A late 80s/early 90s design like the XM really needs some matte black trim to look right.

[wesacosa]

the temp sensor is on the passenger wing mirror. They all eventually give dodgy readings but can be swapped easily for ones from a newer Citroen.  It only feeds the dash display so far as I know

The red LED light on the dash indicates an issue with the alarm.  Mine started doing it, I think there is a away to clear it but I forget what it is and I never bothered to try it

Dial on right is oil level, it should flash a reading upon key-on then drop to zero and stay there 

 

[Schaefft]

4 minutes ago, wesacosa said:

the temp sensor is on the passenger wing mirror. They all eventually give dodgy readings but can be swapped easily for ones from a newer Citroen.  It only feeds the dash display so far as I know

The red LED light on the dash indicates an issue with the alarm.  Mine started doing it, I think there is a away to clear it but I forget what it is and I never bothered to try it

 

Interesting, is the sensor design on newer Citroens improved?

And yes, the alarm system being dodgy does make sense. It has happened twice to me now where the car wouldn't crank at all after being turned off shortly before. Somewhat concerning but still better than the starter giving up on life.

[wesacosa]

Just now, Schaefft said:

Interesting, is the sensor on newer Citroens improved?

And yes, the alarm system being dodgy does make sense. It has happened twice to me now where the car wouldn't crank at all after being turned off shortly before. Somewhat concerning but still better than the starter giving up on life.

im not 100 percent sure if its improved but they are readily available so don't have to worry about finding a working used one. 

Not sure the alarm would make it not crank as I think its separate from the immobilizer, which at least on the Diesel lets you crank but not fire

I edited my above post too as I missed the question about the right hand gauge first time (oil level)

[Schaefft]

3 minutes ago, wesacosa said:

im not 100 percent sure if its improved but they are readily available so don't have to worry about finding a working used one. 

Not sure the alarm would make it not crank as I think its separate from the immobilizer, which at least on the Diesel lets you crank but not fire

I edited my above post too as I missed the question about the right hand gauge first time (oil level)

Good to know, I'll order a new sensor then. And yeah, it would crank yet not fire normally without the code put in, sometimes it doesn't seem to crank at all attempting to start the car straight away after turning it off. Maybe there is a fault with the starter when hot after all? Needs more diagnosing.

[wesacosa]

4 minutes ago, Schaefft said:

Good to know, I'll order a new sensor then. And yeah, it would crank yet not fire normally without the code put in, sometimes it doesn't seem to crank at all attempting to start the car straight away after turning it off. Maybe there is a fault with the starter when hot after all? Needs more diagnosing.

I will see if I can find out which one it was. Haven't fitted one myself but Paul B-R mentioned it to me once 

EDIT

 

[Schaefft]

Took the XM to the fancy areas of Newcastle yesterday.

The driver window decided to only go down until 5 minutes of button mashing finally resulted in it suddenly closing all the way again, maybe the auto up button came back to life.

I'm still seeing the no crank issue. It always happens after the car had been running for a while, there's no clear indication yet what makes it crank again.

I'm also starting to realize that the AC system is not very good at demisting the windshield in this weather. Ordered new wiper blades as well as the old ones seem a little tired. A bunch of little bits and pieces arrived today that must have gone missing over the years, more updates on that on the weekend hopefully.

In other news, after waiting for about a year for my turn to send the S8 to Devon to have it checked and fixed by the one and only Audi D2 specialist I've decided to reach out to a different place much closer to Newcastle now. There's a specialist Audi A8 breaker (now supporting many other VAG models) in Stockton-on-Tees that recommended a garage just across the road from them. Reviews seem excellent so I sent them an email to see if they would be interested. The car certainly doesn't get better from sitting for ages so hopefully they can sort out a few issues I personally cannot be bothered with to finally get one step closer to an MOT.

As a reminder, I bought the car during the first lockdown and sorted quite a few issues on it, at this point I'd love for someone else to take over to sort out the ABS pump, O2 sensors and leaky transmission cooler lines, however.

 

[wesacosa]

those one touch drivers window switches are a shit design. Dust gets between the two thin metal layers of the switches and stops them working. They can be taken apart and cleaned but they are bloody fiddly and easy to break

[Schaefft]

I've blasted the switch with contact cleaner, seems to work again, for now anyway.

I've also installed the little interior bits and pieces I received from a member of the XM community. Doesn't seem like much but you spend a lot of time inside the car, why not spend a few quid and make sure everything is nice and tidy.

Hole in passenger rear door closed:

The lose driver door lock knob was replaced as well, wont go anywhere now. I've also got the missing 13th window hinge pins, the window is now solidly held in place again, there was just a single nail holding it on before:

I badly need Autodoc to deliver my tailgate struts, the whole thing is so heavy that I constantly fear for my life working underneath it. I've got the studs they attach to installed now, strangely enough they were completely missing on the passenger side before. Fortunately they are just bolt on.

I completely forgot you also get the roller sunshades, quintessential for any french luxury motor:

Found this adjustable wrench in the back pocket, always love when cars come with free tools.

Wipers arrived as well. Im sure someone on here will be happy to see the beam type wipers replaced by more conventional ones. The old wiper blades actually didnt look too terrible, I'll keep them as spares.

I've also received my grille bar. Surprisingly this thing is not made from plastic but solid metal.

I've already started painting it the factory silver, unfortunately I noticed that one of the previous owners indeed intentionally removed it, including the damn moulded mounting brackets on the nose cone, and glued in some chicken fence instead, all in an attempt to make the car look more generic.🤦‍♂️ I'll have to get creative installing the center section, since I do prefer the pre-facelift grille it might just be a temporary solution anyway.

[stuboy]

6 hours ago, Schaefft said:

looks old........?

[High Jetter]

I think so, have a similar one, must be ancient

[Schaefft]

It does indeed, can't say I've seen one like it before. I thought it was part of the on board toolkit but the XM doesn't seem to have one.

New wipers made a world of a difference in today's terrible weather. The check engine light has also come on, despite it running significantly better compared to a week ago. I'll see if it'll turn off on its own again, I can feel that the engine would benefit from a proper service. I also think the steering and ride isn't as smooth as it could be. A previous owner had at least one sphere replaced before, no clue whether these need to be regassed once in a while or whether they could be worn out due to age. The steering is pretty firm at low speeds, not sure whether that's normal either, always the issue when driving a car for the first time, there's nothing to compare it to. If this is a long term keeper I might have to check how to flush the system, I know @dollywobbler did this one his XM before.

I've also found the owners manual. Despite having owned over 30 cars from all kinds of manufacturers so far the XM feels like the car where I need it the most, just to figure out pretty simple things. And even that manual wasn't located where you'd expect it (glovebox), instead it has a little storage area behind the fuse box lid under the dash!

Glad I found it though, they aren't exactly cheap to buy. Another example is the clock. Why add a simple button to set the time when you can have two tiny holes you have to poke a needle into? Just would be too easy m9.

Despite all the quirks (probably because of them) I enjoy driving the car. A post on Instagram made me check how many V6 XMs are actually left on the road. I expected a few hundred including cars on SORN (similar to my Alfa 166), turns out the V6 Exclusive only has 15 registered on the road, with 28 sorn. And those 43 cars outnumber every other V6 variant counted together and are by far the most common trim still around. Almost every single one is in the single digits, for most of them there's just 1 car left on the road.

https://www.howmanyleft.co.uk/?page=1&q=citroen+xm

Things really aren't looking great for the XM, I honestly didn't expect numbers to be so decimated considering they sold several thousand of them in the UK and have a significant following, definitely more so than Alfa 166s. Numbers already started dropping steeply when they werent even 10 years old yet. Having one with only 65k miles it might be worth spending a few quid more on mine to get it in decent shape.

[wesacosa]

Duff spheres are really easy to find. With the car running you should be able to push the corners down with little pressure and have them bounce back. Any resistance or lack of movement is a dud sphere

have you given it a course of Citrobatics? system is self bleeding but running it up and down through all the heights helps get rid of any air

Also have you checked quantity and cleanliness of the LHM fluid. Dirty fluid and filters can cause rough steering and less than perfect suspension 

[wesacosa]

 This is mine with a compliment of new spheres and fluid change and filter clean 

flushing the system isnt too bad.  Stick it on low to get as much fluid in tank as you can.  Depressurise the system by turning the pressure relief valve on the accumulator (only needs 1/2 turn or so, too many turns and the spring and ball fire out nerver to be seen again). unclip and remove the filter carrier and put put it into a 2l coke bottle with top chopped off. Unbolt tank from the inner wing (may need to get air duct/battery tray out to get at one of the fixings) then empty and swill tank out with petrol, clean with brush if you can but the later tanks are heavily baffled with razor sharp plastic so be careful.  unclip filters from the carrier and clean gently (mesh is fragile,) with toothbrush and petrol.  Put it all back together,  fill up, bleed system with Citrobatics and your pretty much done.  worth bleeding brakes too as they are not on a return circuit to the tank so the LHM in there gets very manky.  Only thing I can't remember is at what point of bleeding you shut the regulator bleed valve you previously cracked open but it tells you in the Haynes . some pics of me doing mine on page 3 here 

 

 

 

 

[Schaefft]

Excellent info, once again thank you Mr.! I have raised and lowered the supension to min/max height before, I assume it's properly bled. Haven't check the fluid level/condition yet though (ignorance is bliss), I will do that tomorrow. Good to know that a simple push is all that's needed to see whats going on, hopefully it's all in good order and just needs fresh fluid.

I've had a closer look at the rediscovered book pack. Not only do I have a full service book (which unfortunately ended at 16 years old, receipts for the remaining time), I also found the radio code for the original Citroen radio that came with the car! Fingers crossed it was only removed to get bluetooth connectivity etc, if it still works I'm happy to send yours back @catsinthewelder.

The manual also finally revealed the purpose of this button:

It's to turn on the cruise control, naturally. What else could have been placed between interior lighting and turning the alarm off... Nice to know the car actually has the option, should come in handy on the Autobahn.

[GeordieInExile]

I still haven't figured out the cruise control on my C6. Must be a big Citroen trait.

[Bear]

14 hours ago, wesacosa said:

 This is mine with a compliment of new spheres and fluid change and filter clean 

flushing the system isnt too bad.  Stick it on low to get as much fluid in tank as you can.  Depressurise the system by turning the pressure relief valve on the accumulator (only needs 1/2 turn or so, too many turns and the spring and ball fire out nerver to be seen again). unclip and remove the filter carrier and put put it into a 2l coke bottle with top chopped off. Unbolt tank from the inner wing (may need to get air duct/battery tray out to get at one of the fixings) then empty and swill tank out with petrol, clean with brush if you can but the later tanks are heavily baffled with razor sharp plastic so be careful.  unclip filters from the carrier and clean gently (mesh is fragile,) with toothbrush and petrol.  Put it all back together,  fill up, bleed system with Citrobatics and your pretty much done.  worth bleeding brakes too as they are not on a return circuit to the tank so the LHM in there gets very manky.  Only thing I can't remember is at what point of bleeding you shut the regulator bleed valve you previously cracked open but it tells you in the Haynes . some pics of me doing mine on page 3 here 

 

 

 

 

Bleeding brakes: it's pressurised. Pedal-pushing device on pedal, open bleed nipple, duck as jet of LHM can potentially hit ceiling (at least on a CX).

[wesacosa]

4 minutes ago, RichardK said:

Bleeding brakes: it's pressurised. Pedal-pushing device on pedal, open bleed nipple, duck as jet of LHM can potentially hit ceiling (at least on a CX).

yes indeed its very easy.  Front nipples are a bit tricky to get a spanner on to on the XM due to the routing of the handbrake cable. Its easier if you unhook the cable but then you risk the other end popping out the bracket under the car so best to try and manage without unhooking it

I think the rear needs the suspension to be set on high to bleed but again that's in the Haynes  (usual disclaimer about working on a hydropneumatic Citroen with the system pressurised and in anything but lowest setting apply)

[Schaefft]

I've checked the fluid and level (at the heighest suspension setting), looks good to me, the fluid color is a bright green:

Pushing each corner down resulted in decent movement without a ton of restriction so the spheres seem alright as well. I might have to let someone who owned a decent one of these drive it to get a second opinion, at least things appear to be in order for now. Bonus ride height pics:

Autodoc was actually surprisingly quick this time, the tailgate struts arrived this morning. Slapped them on the car during lunch, another piece of the puzzle completed and a major quality of life improvement using the car as intended, you can actually open the boot without a fear for your life now!

 

[wesacosa]

if the first picture of the height float is on high setting it looks maybe a tiny bit low?  The gold disc is supposed to be between the red lines and from this angle looks just on the bottom line

check the disc moves lower when you put it on normal height as they are not immune to getting stuck

[eifion]

On 29/10/2023 at 17:29, Schaefft said:

Things really aren't looking great for the XM, I honestly didn't expect numbers to be so decimated considering they sold several thousand of them in the UK and have a significant following, definitely more so than Alfa 166s. Numbers already started dropping steeply when they werent even 10 years old yet. Having one with only 65k miles it might be worth spending a few quid more on mine to get it in decent shape.

Rust did for my first two and the increasing difficulty of getting parts led to me sell my third. The early ones suffering from terrible electrical problems probably didn't help their longevity either. I can't remember the last time I saw one on the road.

Seeing the pictures of yours makes me miss mine. They're great cars.

[jamescarruthers]

On 29/10/2023 at 22:18, GeordieInExile said:

I still haven't figured out the cruise control on my C6. Must be a big Citroen trait.

If it doesn’t switch on, or buttons do the function of other buttons, a quick bodge is to unlock the steering wheel and bang it about!  If it comes back to life, there’s a plug under the trim that needs a bit of love, maybe rerouted. 

[Schaefft]

As mentioned before we are away this weekend and the XM is doing great so far. The suspension is beginning to shine much more once out of town at higher speeds. It even took the twisty bends of Hartside Pass surprisingly competently, I'm quite impressed by it really considering the mishmash of various aging budget tires on it.

With changing water levels on the ford to our stay it's also quite convenient to be able to just raise the suspension.

Our host was quite surprised seeing us rock up in an XM. Being in the countryside he's a bit of a Jimny and Defender botherer himself.