The future of dieselshite: is it bleak, or bollocks?

[Bren]

Remember that iceberg that broke off Antartica? Our vectra did it.

[SiC]

They reckon it'll be 8-15k cars that'll be changed by the scrappage scheme. Not even A dent on cars on the road in the UK.

 

Also if you search for a sub 6yr old family hatch, it's incredibly hard to find a petrol. They're all sodding dizzlers.

[garethj]

As most here spend less than a grand on a car perhaps any loss in resale value isn't so significant.  But if I'd just dropped £10k on a diesel car I'd be concerned its value would be the same as shares in Freddie Laker Airways.

[NorfolkNWeigh]

I drive a diesel.

I drive a lot of miles.

I often drive into Central London.

I'll worry about it when something actually happens.

If the congestion charge doubles for dizzlers I'll just pass it on to my customers.

When I can buy a petrol that does 40 odd mpg or an electric car that has a 500 mile range, then I'll change.

 

On my list of things to worry about this subject is about level with me developing anorexia.

[dieselnutjob]

This looks fun though

[forddeliveryboy]

London wants cleaner vehicle exhausts so they can expand the air traffic volumes.

 

The rest of the country will follow because it'll be fashionable to ban old diesels and there's money in them thar motorists.

 

Couple of facts:

 

A single most efficient modern DEFRA-approved for smokeless zone wood burning stove puts out 500-1000 times more air pollution than an average-efficient HGV truck.

 

Around 80% of road vehicle particulate emissions are predicted to be from non-exhaust sources within a decade. What affects this most? Mass. Especially when combined with high power.

 

The most obvious example is a 2.5 tonne EV which accelerates ludicrously quickly and which struggled to wear its tyres evenly. But I expect the fashionable sorts in Teslas will be so convinced of their green-credentials they will hound any older diesel off the road, no matter how gently it ruins The Environment.

[conkerman]

 

 

When I can buy a petrol that does 40 odd mpg

 

 

Lexus IS300h. 48mpg over 1300 miles.

 

Might not be big enough for your game though.

 

Sent from my Vodafone Smart ultra 6 using Tapatalk

[Bren]

On the quiet I think most people would prefer the mechanical simplicity of a petrol engine -quieter, less to go wrong and quicker warm up times.

 

The diesel scores on torque and economy - however I cannot see the point of big diesel engined cars as their complexity outweighs their performance - our vectra being a case in point - it does 40 mpg on the motorway and our A6 does 35 - both V6 but the audi is petrol and does not habitually go into limp mode.

 

People buy diesel simply because of the price of a gallon of fuel - our greedy government taxes it to death.

 

People will always need old 50 mpg snotters to get to their minimum wage, zero hour employment.

[Guest Breadvan72]

In what sense can a Government be greedy?    Tax is used to pay for stuff.  We can debate all day what that stuff should be, and how much the stuff should cost, but Governments don't go mwahahahahahahahaha and keep all the loot in a big biscuit tin.  

 

True it is that sometimes Governments unwisely or corruptly give some of the money to dickheads (I don't mean feckless doleys - they cost almost nothing - I mean McKinsey, and Kleinworts, and such like, and assorted scumbag chums of Ministers).

[cort16]

If the tide does change against diesel then resulting modifications to petrols to make them more efficient, lower mpg will make the them even more of a liability that they diesels left behind.

Large cars with 800cc engines  and massive turbo charger/supercharger/ev/flux capacitor power trains.

 

Knackered turbo's, holes in pistons, human sacrifice, dogs and cats living together...mass hysteria!

[martc]

When I can buy a petrol that does 40 odd mpg or an electric car that has a 500 mile range, then I'll change.

 

 

Suzuki Celerio - 78.4 mpg

[406V6]

Around 80% of road vehicle particulate emissions are predicted to be from non-exhaust sources within a decade. What affects this most? Mass. Especially when combined with high power.

Not heard this one before. Must be an opportunity for an academic study from the University of Up The Khyber to predict OMG Cancerforeverybody caused by particles from brake pads and wearing tyres.

 

On another tack....   I've been resisting the pressure to replace my 3-litre petrol with a nasty diseasel. Hopefully by the time replacement becomes urgent there will be enough decent new petrol cars available to choose from.

 

I've no wish to replace mine with a diesel when I hear stories like this one. A work colleague has a 3-year old C Class 2 litre diesel with manual box, fortunately still under warranty. A few weeks back the transmission shat itself with OMG DMF failure. Yes, just ~3 years old and the flywheel broke.

[Guest Breadvan72]

This idea that there is an eternal "They" is, I think, mostly bollocks.  Politicians come from the population.  Most of them shop in shops, sleep in beds, shit in bogs, and some even pay taxes,.  Some - not all - but some, try to do things that they think are the right things to do.  They are often wrong, but all these conspiracy theories and them and us blah are a bit sixth form, I reckon.  

 

Jaded cynicism about politics and politicians in liberal democracies leads to people not voting.  When Joe Bloke stops voting, you know what happens?  

 

Fascists, Communists, racists, extremists of all kinds, nutters:  they always vote.   They keep on voting, until they get what they want, and then no one gets to vote anymore. 

[Bren]

In what sense can a Government be greedy?    Tax is used to pay for stuff.  We can debate all day what that stuff should be, and how much the stuff should cost, but Governments don't go mwahahahahahahahaha and keep all the loot in a big biscuit tin.  

 

True it is that sometimes Governments unwisely or corruptly give some of the money to dickheads (I don't mean feckless doleys - they cost almost nothing - I mean McKinsey, and Kleinworts, and such like, and assorted scumbag chums of Ministers).

If government looked at other avenues to cllect tax people would perhaps be more inclined to buy cars that are better for our lungs.

 

However, when every penny counts, people are going to go for the car which they feel will cost them the least in terms of running.

[Snipes]

Regardless of new legislation though the diesels of today were never going to be viable autoshite fodder in 10 years time anyway due to OMG DPF/DMF/HDI mega ££££ repair bill lottery. In the long run your average shitter may benefit as the motor industry start focusing more on pez engines again.

I think this, and the enthusiasm for dropping parts supply for a car ASAP after it's a few years old.

[Dick Cheeseburger]

A single most efficient modern DEFRA-approved for smokeless zone wood burning stove puts out 500-1000 times more air pollution than an average-efficient HGV truck.

Doesn't surprise me at all. They need burying in a massive hole along with nuclear power, PSA group, and Louis Walsh. Oh, and grime 'music'.

[NorfolkNWeigh]

Lexus IS300h. 48mpg over 1300 miles.

Might not be big enough for your game though.

Sent from my Vodafone Smart ultra 6 using Tapatalk

Yes, the closest I've come to going non-derv in recent years have been Lexus halfbreeds, the Gs450h appeals but the boot is tiny . Almost bought an RX for MrsN until we had a demo for a weekend and it didn't manage better than 25mpg- although the Freelander2 2.2 Dizzler we got instead can't beat 30.

[NorfolkNWeigh]

Suzuki Celerio - 78.4 mpg

Perfect, I'll take 2- one for each foot.

[wuvvum]

I thought all these modern fuels contained some 'bio' content? There's a bloody big plant opened up quite near here that uses the waste from abbatoirs (really) to blend into bio fuels additives.

Does that mean that vegans are now going to refuse to travel in motor vehicles as well as refusing to handle cash?

[conkerman]

Dead bull gives you wings.

 

Sent from my Vodafone Smart ultra 6 using Tapatalk

[pompei]

Why didn't dual fuel petrol/LPG cars catch on?  I know only a few models were manufactured and they were all pretty undesirable but the principle still holds surely? Wouldn't cost much to include in a mass production scenario.

[SiC]

I have a feeling we will see the end of diesel within my lifetime........................

 

It has nothing to do with us whatever "They" want "They" will get and they will do if you get my drift? We don't figure in it we never do....................

 

My daily's for the last 10 years have been derv's but that said my yearly millage is going down as i get older so I am not interested in diesels anymore really...........

 

My current Diseasal Golf goes back next year I'm all paid up for the next 10 months on current rates only thing they could hit me on is fuel duty now?

 

Not sure if ill ever lease again now? it seemed a good idea for 12 years It no makes no more sense to me.

 

We put too much emphasis on MPG I pay £3k a year plus a couple of grand deposit average lease 3 years so 11k for a car i don't own!

 

I think ill replace it with a cheap yank tank terrible on fuel but ill own it and in the long run will be no more expensive but far more interesting!

 

Its like a religious experience i once was lost then I found Autoshite was blind but now i see

11k miles at 22mpg on £1.20 p/l fuel is £2724 a year. I'd much prefer a older big engine, low-stressed petrol auto, that everyone runs scared of because of 22mpg, than a modern diesel Golf. It's the reasoning and justification for me on my Laguna. Actually does 30mpg on motorway runs too. Around town with the wife driving it gets 23-24mpg. However I unfortunately only manage 18-19mpg when I'm driving...

 

Averaged over the year is pretty much 22mpg though and that's with a lot of city driving.

[SiC]

18mpg over 11k miles (£1.20 p/l) is £3330 per year. So yeah more man maths justification for a V8 that everyone lusts over!

[Parky]

Necessity is the mother of invention. Give it a couple of years of declining sales and someone will come up with a new diesel design that runs on airborne soot and converts it into pure oxygen. We will all rejoice and buy one until the oxygen content in the air increases too much and becomes combustible.

 

Vorsprung Durch Kaboom, as they say in Germany.

[garethj]

If I changed from a diesel to same-sized petrol it would cost me about an extra £75 a month which is equivalent to around £1500 pay cut.  Ouch.

 

While I don't particularly like diesels, I do like a car that's not expensive to buy second hand, is reliable and is cheap to run.  I'd be very happy if that were electric, coal powered or petrol but my hopes aren't high for a direct replacement.

[Asimo]

According to Transport for London there are 2.56 million cars in London; 0.3 per adult.

London and many other cities need to face up to the fact that the car itself is the real pollutant.

Even if motor vehicles were fuelled by fairy dust transmuting into fresh air they would still ruin cities because of the sheer quantity of moving metal that results. A city that has space for 10 million people doesn't have space for 3 million vehicles. Private cars make no sense as the basis for transport in dense urban areas.

 

Anyway, as for Diesel engines - when I was in Los Angeles 20 years ago, the buses were Diesel / natural gas, which is basically an ordinary Diesel engine running ordinary diesel oil at low power; above tickover, power is increased as required by mixing the natural gas with intake air. Said to be down on power but pretty clean. I think this was tried in London Taxis recently. Not a way forward for a 12 year old 2.2DCi Laguna but maybe for city trucks, vans and buses? 

 

LPG conversion might be a way also to keep old classic vehicles acceptably clean, be they petrol or Diesel. Anyone tried LPGing an old Diesel?

[LostnotFound]

Why didn't dual fuel petrol/LPG cars catch on?  I know only a few models were manufactured and they were all pretty undesirable but the principle still holds surely? Wouldn't cost much to include in a mass production scenario.

 

 

I'm probably wrong as it was a long time ago, but from memory wasn't there a real scepticism about how cheap LPG would be in the long run? Part of the reason it is still cheap now is that has 26 pence a litre less duty on it, because of the fuel duty escalator it seemed it would only be taxed at a lower level for a year or two?

 

The lack of forecourts with LPG has always been an issue, which seems to be getting worse. I looked into it in my previous job but would have had to have driven a fair old way each time I needed to fill up as there was nothing in either the town I lived in, worked in or enroute. It's the same chicken and egg issue you'd have with any new fuel source. 

 

From a shiters POV the issue has always been pay back time? Even on a thirsty car and a decent annual mileage you would need to be pretty sure you would be keeping the car for a couple of years before any profit, most on here would rather stick the money aside for an emergency car or two in case of problems. For new car buyers, small petrols doing 60+ mpg take care of the thrifty end of the market and diesels providing cheap company car tax and decent economy for their performance in larger cars. 

[The Moog]

All of this is just a small step.

 

Driverless cars will be here sooner rather than later and that will be the game changer. Everything can be optimised and fuel will be less relevant.

 

Likihood is you will have a contract with a car provider (similar to phone) with certain number of miles. You book your car with your app (similar to uber) and you will be sent whichever is relevant to your needs. Electric for small hops and ultra efficient petrol for longer journeys.

 

To make the switch they will just hike insurance prices followed by a scrappage scheme in which you receive credits in your car account.

[maxpower]

I might be a cantankerous old git but i am starting to smell a rat... 1st we have the brexit vote...then the govt having talks with nissan to keep the jobs in sunderland if we leave the eu.... then this diesel malarkey that they are the invention of the devil... then i start to see more and more adverts pushing the nissan leaf and the nv-200 electric van... coincidence or a helping hand from the govt for staying in uk? 

[Des]

Would you all shut the fuck up about LPG, I've enjoyed its lower cost for many years and the last thing I want is the Diesel crowd jumping in so its price overtakes petrol.

Have to spare a thought for all those Diesel owners who believed the far fetched hype regarding global warming and bought conscientiously, all 0.001% of them, it's the economy myth which has replaced petrols, added god knows how many more cars to the road, justified vehicle obesity and led to every road I travel being bunged with insanely bloated fucking monstrosities. Whatevs about pollution figures, air traffic vs industrial vs motahs, in the real world, when I step out of my door I get that foul stank of modern dervs, it's not factories or planes that converge every evening, completely on the pavement outside every shithole junkfood outlet, engine running with a scowl faced guardbloater filling the passenger space surrounded in a fog of filth.

We're rammed with Diesels to some extent thanks to house prices, many cannot afford to live near where the work is, public transport can't cater for the scale of the mess, but it's more than just the figure, wages haven't kept up. Unless you run a V12 the roof over your head is the biggest expense, it's the reason to go to work, actually you don't get a job without an address, but now a normal working man can't buy a home for his family? What if he swallows his pride and sends the missus out to work, she can earn the same as him, sometimes more! No? Still not happening? It's almost as if money isn't worth as much, or most of us have suffered a big old paycut.

What class of cunts are running this show?