Some questions regarding Peugeot 405s

[carlo]

A series of questions regarding the Peugeot 405:

 

Why, in ten years of driving cars, have I been unable to find a more modern car which offers the same blend of comfort, dynamic ability, reliability and economy of ownership?

 

Why has a 23 year old 405 just transported Mrs_Carlo, in total comfort and without drama, from Devon to Manchester including assorted fog, accidents and tailbacks along the way?

 

Why have identical 405 cars provided the same level of reliability and comfort for me, during over 30 long distance trips, over the last ten years without one breakdown along the way?

 

Why would I be just as trustworthy, if not more so, of my 405 getting to its destination than anything produced in the last fifteen years?

 

Why are Peugeot 405s worth around £200-£300?

 

Why does a 20 year old Peugeot 405 cost less to run than a new Fiat Panda diesel over five years?

 

 

I'm not being smug, just genuinely appreciative of such fine machines.  I can see why people love their cars.

 

[Bren]

The 405 does not have built in obsolescence. Modern cars do.

[carlo]

Good point.  I remember Volvo getting flak from its sales directors for trumpeting the longevity of its cars.

[strangeangel]

Nothing much to add here, except that the shagged-out 2.0l petrol one I had (with a padlock holding the stoved in bootlid shut) was one of the nicest cars I've ever driven. Properly civilised, comfortable, fast (enough for me) and well equipped; at £200 buying it had been a no-brainer.

 

I scrapped it when a cheap low-mileage (VW-engined) Skoda Felicia turned up, and what a hideous mistake that turned out to be.

[ChinaTom]

One of my most memorable drives was a 1.6 405 GL. If I could choose any of my previous cars to have back it would be a J reg GTX.

 

Sent from my STV100-4 using Tapatalk

[MarinaJosh]

Every day I get more and more tempted to buy one. I love my 309 I use daily but the extra powaaa and comfort of one of these is appealing but I know they can be a bit more complicated when it comes to the sort of stuff that usually needs replacing on cars of this sort of age. Example for me was when I did a 309 heater matrix the other week, was a really easy job whereas the 405 involves removing the dash...

 

I guess I just need to buy one from a fellow shiter which has had regular use. A few have come up locally including a gorgeous turbo diesel GTX estate which was the perfect spec for me, it was only £395 too...

[Cavcraft]

If you like 309s the 405 is going to seem like stepping into a brand new Rolls Royce in comparison.

[MarinaJosh]

And the levels of regret over not buying that GTX estate skyrocket...

[Junkman]

I'm unable to answer any of these questions.

 

Bought as an interim because it was the cheapest petrol auto with velours I could find at the time:

 

 

Got rid of it when finding this estate:

 

 

I'd still have it, if this didn't happen in Southern Bavaria:

 

 

Had to do the return trip in some newfangled hire tosh, which was abysmal.

Hence replaced it with this:

 

 

Junkwoman wanted something smaller, so it was replaced with something smaller, which turned out to be shit because Japanish and smaller.

Hence another 405 searchage ensued to replace that, but only a saloon could be found:

 

 

Which was replaced as soon as an estate came up for sale:

 

 

All of them were/are 2.0 autos.

They all were driven on holidays including to abroadshire at the drop of a hat, would do again.

The only two FTPs ever encountered were with the white one for obvious reasons and with the latest green one due to a dying battery.

 

All of them needed some window regulator, rear calipers freeing and tyres replacing, but that's about it. I don't even check fluids anymore.

Green one is declared a keeper (so was the white one), has 50k miles on it now and will receive a complete brake overhaul soon,

because advisory at last MoT.

[worldofceri]

Also, 1986.

[Junkman]

It was only launched in 1986, but released in 1987. So it only counts just ever so about.

They are still among the best cars I've ever owned, save for some rather niggly shortcomings.

 

- The outer door handles are at the height of your kneecaps, requiring you to bow everytime you want to enter it.

 

- The switch for adjusting the mirrors is way down on the driver's door, thus you need to lean forward to reach it.

 

- The rear wheels never appear to be centred in the wheel arches.

 

- The engine note is reminiscent of a drawer full of cutlery at a level crossing.

 

- The window regulators are made from toilet paper.

 

- The dipped beam is a joke.

 

- They always steam up inside when it's raining.

 

- There is that spare wheel thing, but I've never needed it yet.

 

The rest is rather well thought out and build quality is a lot better than the label might suggest.

In 2.0 flavour, they are even in scientific terms fucking fast. Despite the engine makes noises like a box full of lose bits, it never sounds stressed.

Comfort and handling are spot on. I had one of them at 200 clicks once, with one hand at the wheel and the elbow on the window sill.

Then there is the estate's boot. No matter how big the moutain piling up in the hall before a holiday is, once you shoved it all into the boot,

it isn't even half full.

[Jim Bell]

Ive had a few 405s. They seem be decent enough cars. They dont seem to do anything especially well but then dont seem to do anything at all badly either. What were the direct competitors at launch I wonder? Would be interesting to see how well the competition has aged in comparison.

[worldofceri]

In about 1999 my dad borrowed/stole/purchased (not sure which) a diseaseal (possibly n.a.) estate, in white, from his employer.  It was 'Style' spec which, I believe, was only available to fleet customers and proper mingebags.  It came with exactly none of the trimmings.  Being young and impressionable (but having incredible taste) I thought it was great.

 

We took it on a couple of road trips to Ireland and it did indeed swallow all the luggage you could throw at it.

 

Weirdly, as they looked almost identical - even down to the style of GB sticker that was common at the time - it met a similar fate to Junkman's white example, above.  

[Junkman]

What were the direct competitors at launch I wonder? Would be interesting to see how well the competition has aged in comparison.

 

Ford Sierra

VAG Pisshat

Shitrun BX

Renner 21

Rover Montego

Fiat Croma

Honda Accord

Mazda 626

Datsun Bluebird

Toyota Carina

Opel Ascona / Vauxhall Cavalier

Ford Tempo

Mopar K Cars

GM J Cars

[Lacquer Peel]

Great, handsome cars. I think the IRS by torsion bars generation of PSA motors drive brilliantly, an ideal blend of ride and handling for my tastes.

[Pillock]

I had a launch brochure for these, I was always amazed at how early on in the range you got an electric sunroof.

Compare that to the Sierra, where even an XR4i buyer would be winding it manually, like a commoner.

 

I was quite a special 9 year old.

[Braddon81]

Dateline February 1988. To our local dealer launch of the 405. Eagerly anticipated actually..Nigel Pavaro of Coronation Street fame pulled the covers off a 1.9 gl petrol 405 to the eager eyes of an assembled mass of sausage rolled scoffing potential punters.

It was a big car for Peugeot, their first proper effort after the 205 and coming four years after Guinea pigging the basic underpinnings on the Citroën Bx, a lot was expected of it and in many many ways it delivered. The press loved it, looked handsome in a neat conventional Pininfarina styled way..and drove rings around any of its competitors in its handling ride and road manners.

Above is the car that was ordered for August 1st that year....a 1.6 gl in Topaz blue..it was me that badgered my father to have the rear spoiler fitted to ape the Sri.

So in an answer to why the 405 is not so revered as it should be nearly 30 years on?....Now we really loved the car..but early 405s whilst sturdy enough in themselves..detail design and development was anything as such,and within a very short time things like the black trims surrounding the door windows started to lift up, at the top of the internal door trims there was a near quarter of an inch gap which was clearly how it was designed but looked crap,the dark grey paint on the sills was not at all durable and weathered very quickly oh and on the early door mirrors the glass was actually fixed to the outer casing and moved as one unit...that was until the mirror broke away without warning from the casing.....

Not exactly major problems..but niggly little things which really shouldn't have been there....but it drove so well..we could forgive it's occasional pain in ass habit of not wanting to start again from hot due to its Solex carb pulling a wobbly,or a mysterious clunk from the front suspension that came and went and cause could never be found.

Subsequently though, early 405s especially

hard driven company cars started to look rather careworn rather too soon, in a similar way to its Talbot Ryton built forebears. We looked after ours though and when 2 years later a pre reg'd 1.9 Sri in cherry red became available the old man jumped at the chance...and what a difference. Whilst visibly similar, the subtle re-engineering of the above faults was very much evident..and to this day the way that late phase 1 Sri drove went and handled is and was a revelation, it cornered like a go cart and still rode unbelievably comfortably...and it did so for 3 years until a W plate Metro rammed up its chuff and wrote it off.

But the almost raw driving appeal of those Phase 1 405s was almost probably their downfall too...and for the Phase 2s some of that was traded for a slightly softer set up..sturdier internal facia and trimmings and a more grown up feel..which is why a late 2.0 Gtx probably feels like such a complete package.

But the end of the 405 also heralded the end of the keenly driving mid range saloon Peugeot.If you bought a Style or an Mi16 you knew you were getting a well honed drivers car. Whilst the 406 was more grown up proposition in everyway, it was heavier,dynamically safe but dull...just at the time when Ford had spent billions in pulling 405s apart....Richard Parry Jones the guru behind the Mondeo was a big big 405 fan...Ford began to beat Peugeot at its own game. And to cap it all up..Peugeot didn't seem to care either..and so began the brands demise in the eyes of the motoring press...public perception as enthusiasts cars etc etc. From 406 to 407..even to the current 408...whilst the cars have become bigger and more sophisticated their lack of any defining feature or interest and an obsession with 'premium badges' has diluted the memory in the public concience of what a damn fine car the Peugeot 405 was and is if you find a really good one. It's for that reason that sadly you can pick one up for as little as 300 quid, and thankfully there are people like some of us in here that can still appreciate their charms.

[Junkman]

The Rover P6 was car of the year and the Peugeot 405 was car of the year.

So I own two cars of the year. Weird.

Even weirdlier, another COTY is high on my shopping list.

[sierraman]

I thought the 406 was decent as well. Very comfortable.

[Timewaster]

Much love for 405s from me too.

I had an Mi16 which was about 5 years old when I bought it.

For years it did sterling work commuting, holidays and general hooning about.

A change of job and house meant it got used less and less and it deteriorated very quickly.

They don't like being stood up.

 

Doubt I'll every find another one worth having now.

[PiperCub]

I drove alot of different 405's (other peoples) back in the 90's when they were a common company cars at my workplace. They were well liked by pretty much everyone and I was fond of them too. True, they don't really do any one thing outstandingly but the whole package just seems to work as it's supposed to. Also true, the interior fittings for instance are a little fragile but often no worse than some other offerings. 

 

The 406 - I've had two including my current daily, is a worthy successor, as above, nothing outstandingly stunning but a decent cheap car. Both of mine have been very reliable and cheap to run plus comfortable on long runs. 

 

 

Timewaster: You'll be lucky to find an intact Mi16 that doesn't cost a packet these days, most of them have been scrapped after the engine has been pulled for transplantation to make a 205GTi 16V (a well put- together example is a stunning car to drive if you ever get chance). 

[Jim Bell]

Ford Sierra

VAG Pisshat

Shitrun BX

Renner 21

Rover Montego

Fiat Croma

Honda Accord

Mazda 626

Datsun Bluebird

Toyota Carina

Opel Ascona / Vauxhall Cavalier

Ford Tempo

Mopar K Cars

GM J Cars

Well there genuinely seems to be more 405s still on the uk roads than any if them so I guess thats very telling in of itself.

[NorfolkNWeigh]

I had a 405 company car F685MNM it was a 1.9 GRi which was an oddity even then, from memory it was the same price as an SRi but didn't have a boot spoiler or the childish red bumper trim, oh and lovely blue velour instead of the coarse stripy stuff in the SRi.

It was a pretty quick thing, not as fast in a straight line as an SRi Cavalier but untouchable across windy A and B roads. As I was a driving god( read young and stupid) I could and did make it do stupid things with left foot braking and yet it always felt 100% stable drifting across apexes at silly speeds.

For a 2 week period I drove everyday from Milton Keynes to Abergavenny at 06.00 to take my Grandmother to Newport for radiotherapy. I still managed to get back to work for the afternoon and even though I had access to some supposedly faster stuff, the 405 was the fastest way to do that trip across the Cotswolds.

 

The only problems, I remember were the stupid easy freeze washers and once when I knocked the little rubber stops off the boot hinge and threw open the boot, smashing the rear window.

I only changed it for a 1.9 TZi BX estate because I had a big old Bessecar caravan and thought the suspension would be better for towing- it wasn't !

[NorfolkNWeigh]

Further to the competitors when new question.

In Britain, they were pretty much 100% company cars.

This meant the competitors were

Sierra

Cavalier

Montego

That's pretty much it, some progressive companies might have entertained funny foreign stuff likePassats, R21s and BXes but definitely no Japanese or Italians.

[r.welfare]

I never liked the Airfix quality interiors of the Phase 1. Fitting air conditioning across the Phase 2 range was a marketing masterstroke.

[Lacquer Peel]

I never liked the Airfix quality interiors of the Phase 1. Fitting air conditioning across the Phase 2 range was a marketing masterstroke.

No A/C in the Style.

[D Spares & Tyres]

Every day I get more and more tempted to buy one. I love my 309 I use daily but the extra powaaa and comfort of one of these is appealing but I know they can be a bit more complicated when it comes to the sort of stuff that usually needs replacing on cars of this sort of age. Example for me was when I did a 309 heater matrix the other week, was a really easy job whereas the 405 involves removing the dash...

 

 

Haven`t done a matrix on one of these for many moons but I remember the routine was to chop through the metal tube under the dash, get a mate to pull on the lower bit of the dashboard with all his strength, then quickly slot out the old matrix then put in the new one quickly before he lets its go,

 

An hours work at most....

[montytom]

My dads had 2 he had a 1989 f plated gtxi.it was an auto but was smoking blue. Took it to a specialist but he couldn't fix it.

He then got a j reg diesel and that had over a quarter of a million miles on.

 

Great cars. I'd have 1

[tommotech]

Just to join in with the 405 appreciation society, I had a 1.9d non-turbo which was epic. Ultimately reliable and comfy on a long run.

 

Had a 406 1.9 turbo after that, but it felt lardy in comparison.

[AMC Rebel]

I would have had one these as a company car at the time, but wound up in a BX because I simply could not (and still can't) fit in one to drive it.

 

I've moaned about this before - Toyota did it with the Avensis too.  

 

I can fit in 309s, I even had a 205, but there is just not enough headroom in a 405 - if I recline the seat far enough so my head's not touching the roof, I can't reach the steering wheel, unless I put the seat so far forward my knees are fouling the wheel.