More emissions investigations

[New POD]

https://eandt.theiet.org/content/articles/2016/12/porsche-under-investigation-over-emissions-testing/

 

 

 

Not surprisingly a company close to VW is implicated.

 

I feel sorry for the employees most of whom don't deserve shit like this

 

https://eandt.theiet.org/content/articles/2016/11/volkswagen-to-cut-30-000-jobs-amid-emission-scandal-recovery-plans/

[forddeliveryboy]

Whereas aircraft have virtually no control on emissions at all, other than the economics of not buying more fuel than necessary. Plus aviation exhausts are reckoned to have at least twice the destructive effect on the atmosphere because of their location up in the sky.

 

Light a coal fire and it has the emissions of a 1960s coach with a worn engine running on petrol-diluted sump oil, even a wood stove puts out some real nasties, tyres particulates don't just lodge in the lungs or pass straight through into the bloodstream to increase the likelihood of cancers, heart disease and strokes but they're washed into the rivers and sea and cause disease in fish and other aquatic life, some of which we eat. Heavy metals from exhaust catalysts are in toxic concentrations in urban areas.

 

Yet all we hear about is car exhaust gases, how those who played the testing system are the devil itself and how EVs have zero emissions. In reality, the exhaust emissions of petrols and diesels of the last dozen years are so relatively clean that their tyre and brake dust accounts for more than half their pollution.

 

Something tells me the public is being taken as mugs, by governments who don't give a flying feck for air quality, just the economy. EVs will be pushed really hard around London, because that's the only way local air quality can be maintained anywhere near maximum limits while air traffic volume is encouraged to spiral.

[Asimo]

Free public transport in Paris is a good move. Be interesting to see how it works out and if it is copied by other badly polluted cities. There is no excuse for not trying free buses, trains etc, doesn't need a big investment up front does it?

[forddeliveryboy]

I think personal transport can be just as or more efficient than public, it's just that the car as we know it has turned into an overweight, oversized dinosaur. 

 

If we were serious about pollution then the solution is lots of human/electric hybrids which weigh under 40kg and are streamlined to make 35-40mph an easy pedal on the level, lightweight tandem seater EVs for longer trips, fully electric delivery vans, light railways, trolley buses and a grid powered by mostly renewables. 

 

Easy to forget how much pollution comes from heating offices and houses - decent insulation could cut the energy needed by a factor of 4 or more. Spring-Summer-Autumn hot water and any space heating needed should be from solar energy, with electricity or gas used for Winter. Hundreds of thousands of gas and oil boilers, even if new and lower emission, add up to a lot of bad air in cities.

[DodgeRover]

Sheffield was an excellent example of how a well run public transport can work, when I was little it used to be 10p for Adults and 5p for kids on the bus into town, it wasn't worth the hastle of taking the car in and finding a parking meter.

Then the buses were deregulated and it all went to poo...

 

Yep they keep banging on about London air quality but they never mention the ring of airports around it, after all who doesn't love waking up every foggy/ misty morning to the stink of kerosene....

 

Don't forget a lot of people keeping warm with coal or wood fires have no alternative, there are a lot of places where mains gas isn't available and there are a lot of people burning waste wood/ pallets so they can make limited incomes go further.

 

Actually on a car related note something about the size of an A35 with a diesel/ electric drive system would be a good commuter vehicle.

[forddeliveryboy]

Public transport has its place definitely, but I can never get out of my head all those empty trains and buses bumbling back and forth once rush hour is over.

 

The car has affected our infrastructure to the point that without personal transport, like it or not, lots would be a bit stuffed today without it. We simply need to make it efficient.

[AMC Rebel]

Free public transport in Paris is a good move. Be interesting to see how it works out and if it is copied by other badly polluted cities. There is no excuse for not trying free buses, trains etc, doesn't need a big investment up front does it?

 

Work colleague of mine (at our Paris office) has his public transport commute costs subsidised through the tax system already.  Seemed like a good idea to me.

[Negative Creep]

Yep they keep banging on about London air quality but they never mention the ring of airports around it, after all who doesn't love waking up every foggy/ misty morning to the stink of kerosene....

 

 

Once we're all forced into EVs I don't doubt that passenger airliners will be the next big thing to tax

[martc]

Audi are at it as well, who'd of thought?

 

https://eandt.theiet.org/content/articles/2016/11/new-cheating-software-found-in-audi-cars/

[forddeliveryboy]

Once we're all forced into EVs I don't doubt that passenger airliners will be the next big thing to tax

 

No doubt, but since you can't dye electrons like you can liquids, will it be black boxes measuring our miles (and everything else)?

[Junkman]

Whereas aircraft have virtually no control on emissions at all, other than the economics of not buying more fuel than necessary. Plus aviation exhausts are reckoned to have at least twice the destructive effect on the atmosphere because of their location up in the sky.

 

Light a coal fire and it has the emissions of a 1960s coach with a worn engine running on petrol-diluted sump oil, even a wood stove puts out some real nasties, tyres particulates don't just lodge in the lungs or pass straight through into the bloodstream to increase the likelihood of cancers, heart disease and strokes but they're washed into the rivers and sea and cause disease in fish and other aquatic life, some of which we eat. Heavy metals from exhaust catalysts are in toxic concentrations in urban areas.

 

Yet all we hear about is car exhaust gases, how those who played the testing system are the devil itself and how EVs have zero emissions. In reality, the exhaust emissions of petrols and diesels of the last dozen years are so relatively clean that their tyre and brake dust accounts for more than half their pollution.

 

Something tells me the public is being taken as mugs, by governments who don't give a flying feck for air quality, just the economy. EVs will be pushed really hard around London, because that's the only way local air quality can be maintained anywhere near maximum limits while air traffic volume is encouraged to spiral.

 

Despite I fully agree, that declaring an airport a low emissions zone can only be the work of clinically deranged, here we discuss the case of a car maker,

one of whose major shareholders being one of those very governments that bring you such regulations, has been convicted for wilfully gassing the population.

That now its subsidiaries are investigated, should be welcomed by anyone, who disagrees with the deceptive practices of the fascist VAG group.

 

The fact that politics and industry are currently in the hands of sociopaths on a level the World has never experienced before, should be discussed in the off section, no?

 

 

Edit:

 

Also, that except for the universal pollution caused, exclusively the working class is now suffering as a result of the criminal activities of those sociopaths should be a clear indicator for fascist to which degree the entire shebang is, hopefully finally even for the most asleep sheeple.

[New POD]

I like the smell of Kerosene. Occassionally in Derby, when one of the test rigs is testing something "development" and the settings are "sub-optimal" there is a wonderfuel smell hanging over Sinfin and Allenton.  The Rolls Royce of Air Pollution - Only the "best" engineering minds and create such an atmosphere

[forddeliveryboy]

Despite I fully agree, that declaring an airport a low emissions zone can only be the work of clinically deranged, here we discuss the case of a car maker,

one of whose major shareholders being one of those very governments that bring you such regulations, has been convicted for wilfully gassing the population.

That now its subsidiaries are investigated, should be welcomed by anyone, who disagrees with the deceptive practices of the fascist VAG group.

 

The fact that politics and industry are currently in the hands of sociopaths on a level the World has never experienced before, should be discussed in the off section, no?

 

 

Edit:

 

Also, that except for the universal pollution caused, exclusively the working class is now suffering as a result of the criminal activities of those sociopaths should be a clear indicator for fascist to which degree the entire shebang is, hopefully finally even for the most asleep sheeple.

 

 

I fear a communist revolution if we carry on as we are now. In reality, we'll probably be taken over by China in a bloodless coup.

[SiC]

I like the smell of Kerosene. Occassionally in Derby, when one of the test rigs is testing something "development" and the settings are "sub-optimal" there is a wonderfuel smell hanging over Sinfin and Allenton. The Rolls Royce of Air Pollution - Only the "best" engineering minds and create such an atmosphere

You can sometimes see rather large blooms of smoke too coming from the Rolls Royce Filton, Bristol test cells when engines have let go.

[PiperCub]

Free public transport in Paris is a good move. Be interesting to see how it works out and if it is copied by other badly polluted cities. There is no excuse for not trying free buses, trains etc, doesn't need a big investment up front does it?

 

This is a good idea - the problem being who would pay for it? Via the tax system? Yes, but would anyone who rarely/never goes to London feel OK about subsidising those that do? I appreciate that the rail network and indeed the road system is subsidised by all tax-payers but a subsidy just for London (plus a couple of the other major cities maybe) would be hard to sell to everyone else. Plus outside major cities - everyone else would be asking "Why are they getting free transport and we aren't? That's not fair" etc.

 

I remember back in the 80's when the GLC's 'Fares fair' policy was funded by additional rates charges on Londoners - the policy was very popular and worked well but no-one wanted to pay for it!  Ultimately, someone has to pay somewhere along the line, there's no free as such. 

[SiC]

Paid for by council tax would be the sensible option. For which we all pay far too much of!

[castros_bro]

http://southendnewsnetwork.com/news/breaking-london-tube-and-bus-fares-scrapped-from-january-2017/

[Negative Creep]

In fairness though, who could have possibly foreseen that introducing a taxation system that massively favours diesels would result in lads of people buying diesels?

[willswitchengage]

Easy to forget how much pollution comes from heating offices and houses - decent insulation could cut the energy needed by a factor of 4 or more. Spring-Summer-Autumn hot water and any space heating needed should be from solar energy, with electricity or gas used for Winter. Hundreds of thousands of gas and oil boilers, even if new and lower emission, add up to a lot of bad air in cities.

 

I was working in a managed office recently (hell) and in winter the room's temperature was controlled by varying the air conditioning's power, which counteracted the room's heating from the central boiler. Who the fuck even designs this crap?

 

Probably worth noting here that the oldies and many schoolchildren get free bus transport - obviously not the perfect solution but it doesn't really make much difference. My parents never use their bus passes and we all know how many yummy mummies you see in their Disco3s outside a school every day.

 

If we look at the history of the car in the past fifty years or so there are some definites:

 

+ They are a lot safer, should you be involved in an accident.

+ VoC emissions have largely been eradicated.

+ They have become significantly larger.

+ Performance and luxury levels have increased.

+ They are more affordable.

 

They are not more efficient. Whereas engine technology has improved (the IC engine has attracted more investment than probably anything, ever in history), the sheer size, luxury and proliferation of cars now marketed negates these advances.

[forddeliveryboy]

^ Agree with everything apart from wondering what this luxury you talk of is, since it doesn't sound like you're thinking of XK40s?

 

Many moderns offer bone-shaking rides which often prevent rapid progress on roads with poor foundations and surfaces, poor visibility, poor ventilation, are huge on the outside but tight on the inside, strut suspension, expensive servicing and so on.

 

If you're comparing a modern Ford with a 70s or 80s one however, a huge leap forwards.

 

But in the late 70s you could buy a real-world rapid car with decent crash protection, heated and extremely comfortable seats, fuel injection, faithful but keen handling, supple suspension, amazing brakes, good ergonomics and reasonable economy. 

 

Oh, and headlamp wipers. That's luxury itself, not having to get out with a damp rag and clean them yourself every hour, in the middle of winter. And back then, a turbo badge was nearly as exclusive as a McLaren is today.

[robinmasters]

As emissions tests are carried out under very specific conditions, did anyone really believe this wasn't happening?

 

Free public transport would be an excellent idea. If we actually had a public transport system, instead of the patchy semi-privatised lash up our trains and buses have become.

[doobietoo]

You have to love the comparisons of aircraft and car emissions.... you could point out that there are by best estimates 100,000 scheduled flights a day in the world that's not aircraft but flights as apposed to over 1 billion cars but as with most areas of thought it seems with as touchy a subject as the environment both common sense and any appreciation of scale goes out of the window....

[willswitchengage]

As emissions tests are carried out under very specific conditions, did anyone really believe this wasn't happening?

 

Free public transport would be an excellent idea. If we actually had a public transport system, instead of the patchy semi-privatised lash up our trains and buses have become.

 

Good point considering 'Southern Rail commuter' is now something of a contradiction in terms.

[jakebullet]

They should make those segway things legal to use. I don't see how they're any more dangerous than old bids on scooters, and would be ideal for popping locally.

[catsinthewelder]

Not sure if this is the right thread but tea was spat out at the cunt in this article.

https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2025/oct/10/dieselgate-scandal-air-pollution-cars 

“I want the alleged deception of these manufacturers to be brought into the open and for them to be held to account,” says Adam Kamenetzky, from south London and one of the claimants. When buying a car in 2018 before the birth of his twin children, he chose his 2013 Mercedes ML250 specifically because of its low emissions in official tests. Now he says he feels he was deceived and was contributing, unknowingly, to deadly air pollution."

Fuck off you arsehole, what kind of twat trys to convince the nation that they've bought a two ton diesel SUV because it has low emissions?  If you want something green to potter round south London then its blatantly obvious that there's loads of better options.

 

 

 

 

[New POD]

5 hours ago, catsinthewelder said:

Not sure if this is the right thread but tea was spat out at the cunt in this article.

https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2025/oct/10/dieselgate-scandal-air-pollution-cars 

“I want the alleged deception of these manufacturers to be brought into the open and for them to be held to account,” says Adam Kamenetzky, from south London and one of the claimants. When buying a car in 2018 before the birth of his twin children, he chose his 2013 Mercedes ML250 specifically because of its low emissions in official tests. Now he says he feels he was deceived and was contributing, unknowingly, to deadly air pollution."

Fuck off you arsehole, what kind of twat trys to convince the nation that they've bought a two ton diesel SUV because it has low emissions?  If you want something green to potter round south London then its blatantly obvious that there's loads of better options.

 

 

 

 

Whilst this particular "example" owner detracts from the article, the estimate of 16000 extra deaths due to cynically rigging the software to pass a test, by11 car manufacturers (20 brands), is shocking. 

If this could be proven categorically, then why are the police/HSE/CPS pursuing corporate manslaughter cases ? 

The truck industry did this trick first in the USA https://dieselnet.com/news/1998/10epa.php#:~:text=Under the settlement%2C the companies,Detroit Diesel%2C Cummins and Mack.

They got caught. Thats in the 1990s. 

 

 

[chadders]

How do you prove an estimate?

As I see it there's no counterfactual to support the 16,000 extra deaths, especially one that would hold up in court.

[Matty]

13 hours ago, catsinthewelder said:

Not sure if this is the right thread but tea was spat out at the cunt in this article.

https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2025/oct/10/dieselgate-scandal-air-pollution-cars 

“I want the alleged deception of these manufacturers to be brought into the open and for them to be held to account,” says Adam Kamenetzky, from south London and one of the claimants. When buying a car in 2018 before the birth of his twin children, he chose his 2013 Mercedes ML250 specifically because of its low emissions in official tests. Now he says he feels he was deceived and was contributing, unknowingly, to deadly air pollution."

Fuck off you arsehole, what kind of twat trys to convince the nation that they've bought a two ton diesel SUV because it has low emissions?  If you want something green to potter round south London then its blatantly obvious that there's loads of better options.

 

 

 

 

Must be nice for the virtue signalling twat to be able to browse for a motor with those concerns in mind. 

Ah, the trials and tribulations of the chattering classes.