Buying a Bus: Advice please

[Captain Furious]

I was gonna say, those prices don't seem *too* bad to me, not enough to put me off buying one, being 40ft long and the fact I'm struggling for space to store existing cars does though

 

Bus buying guide very interesting though, more please.

[BorniteIdentity]

Incredible detail and I'm really grateful. Proper bedtime reading tonight!

[alf892]

How about a compromise?

 

Proper bus........but smaller

 

[UltraWomble]

Wasn't Doc restoring a bus or two? I remember the rot he was dealing with on one of them, looked an absolute bastard of a job.

Yesh, Ive only got a shitty picture of the Lance but the metric dickload of rust on that thing and problems he has had with it  notwithstanding the amount of money he has sunk into it and its still as far as the moon is from Milton Keynes from being finished. Why anyone would want to inflict that on themselves is beyond me, I mean its bad enough welding up a BX but the Lance......

[0ldCh0d]

This perhaps?

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Mercedes-Benz-709D-30-SEATER-MIDI-COACH-IDEAL-EXPORT-MOTOR-HOME-CONVERSION-/252519672782?hash=item3acb586bce:g:D~YAAOSw5ClXxp5U

[0ldCh0d]

That's about £1694 overpriced.

In all seriousness it's about £500 on a good day. No MoT, come from an operator that has just gone to the wall (and had a reputation for iffy maintenance), and has been taken half to bits.

So in other words.. it's a piece of shit then?.. I know nothing about buses,as demonstrated.

[SiC]

Part two. Actually buying a bus.

 

Once you've decided to go and look over a certain vehicle, there are a few things to consider. A lot is common to viewing a car, some things not so.

 

Approaching the vehicle (assuming it is parked on reasonably level ground), stop and take a good look at how the vehicle sits. If the vehicle has air suspension (90% of PSVs) it may well be sat lop-sided or down by the bow or stern. This isn't an immediate issue like it would be on many vehicles, however it may point to a levelling valve issue, perished air bag or other issue. Otherwise, take a good look around the vehicle but don't go too in depth yet. Check the fluids (engine oil, coolant), then start the vehicle. This is where having someone experienced with PSVs is really useful - most buses have different places for oil and coolant fillers, and different starting proceedures. They're all variations on a common theme, but it's knowing, for example, where to put the gear lever in a semi-auto Leyland Olympian to allow it to start.

 

Once the vehicle has started, switch on all lights (inside and out), and allow the air pressure to build. Most buses have two air circuits (two gauges or maybe a duplex gauge on the dash) many Leylands had three. Each should build to around 8 bar within 5-8 minutes. If any are below 6 bar a warning buzzer should sound as well as a lamp illuminating on the dash. Whilst the air is building, check the interior lights, seats for cuts and damage, and the emergency exit(s) open and close from the inside. Opening the emergency exits should also trigger another buzzer (and dashboard lamp if fitted). The cosmetics aren't really an issue unless loads of seats are damaged.

 

Once the air system is fully charged (i.e all air gauges showing equal pressure with no warning lamps or buzzers), go outside the vehicle. Check the vehicle is sat level, look at all the exterior lights (including marker lights on the top corners if fitted), and work around the vehicle checking tyres (cuts, splits and scuffing on the sidewalls, minimum 1mm tread depth across 3/4 of the tyre). It's worth mentioning that in many cases vehicles are sold without tyres included in the price, as many operators have a contract with a tyre firm to supply and maintain their tyres. Make sure a set of legal tyres is part of the deal. Check the engine - is the exhaust still smoking even when the engine has warmed up? Many older diesels will produce some white smoke when cold, usually nothing to worry about. If it's still doing so when warmed up there may be a head gasket issue. Also pull/push the emergency stop button (it should be marked with the correct directional instruction). Whilst outside check the emergency exits open and close where possible (the upstairs rear window on a decker isn't so-able without a ladder), and if all this checks out, look at a test drive. Move the bus from where it is and check where it was parked for fluid leaks.

 

On the test drive the vehicle should behave like any other - brakes work evenly and smoothly (if a retarder is fitted there should be quite a noticeable increase in brake force as it cuts in), accelerate and hold speed without hesitation or misfire. Check the exhaust as you are driving (if possible - many buses' exhausts are on the offside of the vehicle and are visible in the mirror) for smoke - some black smoke is ok, blue or white indicates problems. Thick clouds of black indicate fuel system issues. Steering will probably feel rather vague, and may have some play in it. Suspension rattles and knocks aren't the easiest to check for on a test drive as service buses especially have a habit of developing rattles in the bodywork with age. Again, this is where having someone experienced with you will help.

 

Once you're back at the sellers yard, check what is included in the deal - tyres (as previously mentioned), destination gear and seats are things the operator may wish to retain, and normally they will remove any ticket issuing equipment. When agreeing a price check whether it's including or excluding VAT. If it all checks out, insure it, tax it and drive it away!

This is fantastic! I don't want to buy a bus, but that was a fascinating read.

[DodgeRover]

Doesn't camper = class 4 MOT?

 

Or you could lead a double life as a travelling showman and enjoy reduced road tax and MOT exemption....

 

How about a nice Dodge 50 with 6-247 or phaser perkins power? There's still a fair few about on the festival scene and a small but dedicated enthusiatic owners club on the net/ farcebook.

 

Have a look on http://www.travellerhomes.co.uk

[Eddie Honda]

The dream:

 

 

The AutoShite reality:

 

[Captain Furious]

What happens in the scenario where the tyres are on contract/hire or whatever. They come round and take them back, or do you have the option to take on the contract, buy out of it etc?

 

Also what's the reason for no fuel gauge? I can see that if they're on a regular schedule it's not so much of an issue, but there doesn't seem to be a huge saving by omitting it, just pure mingebaggery?

[Inspector Morose]

Just one more gauge for the driver to complain about.

In reality they just don't need one. Most tanks are about 200-300 litres and last one day in service. As most buses are fuelled up every night in the yard/garage there's no point in having one.

 

That's of course you use it as a bus. We use Dennis tridents as exhibition vehicles. The Nottingham one we have will do 300km before looking for a garage and the lothians will do about 400km. Unbelievably the Lothian I used for a two week tour a couple of weeks ago was achieving 8.2mpg.

 

Having had far too many buses to be healthy to my bank account (when I played buses, they managed to bankrupt me twice) I can't think of any other advice than be careful.

[SiC]

I know it's not the AutoShite spirit, but given there looks to be a whole load of cheap buses coming on the market soon, could you not just find a decent ish one with a full test and then drive it till it went bang? Surely a half decent one should keep motoring along with lowish miles p/a.

 

Some of the local bus company buses I use are true shite and seem pretty solid and generally reliable.

[mrcitroen]

No intention of buying a bus myself, but this is indeed a brilliant read!

[Captain Furious]

I remember those semi-automatic gear leavers from the old school buses we had. I say buses, they were mostly fairly luxury coaches but with the occasional old clunker, Plaxton also rings a bell, I gather they're the coach builder (no pun etc) and then Volvo or whoever would make the oily bits.

 

This is my new favourite thread

[Inspector Morose]

Yes, unless they made the oily bits as well. See optare, wrights et al.

[DeeJay]

Reading 83c's pre-buying check list, the only thing i'd probably check would be if the bell worked.

[Captain Furious]

Looking at eBay and what you can get in the bus world vs what you can get in the camper van world, I now officially want a bus. Well, a coach. Needs to have windows that are smooth on the outside - ie you can't see a frame round them, and have the door that swings out and round, and when it shuts it pulls upwards into the frame, if that makes sense. That mechanism used to fascinate me as a child.

 

They're my only two requirements really..

[Inspector Morose]

Plug doors.

 

Buses are great fun. Some of the owners and "enthusiasts" can be, shall we say, hard work.

 

They also swallow money like you wouldn't believe.

 

I did own a trolleybus once. All the problems of a bus but you can't use it in the uk on the roads. (Yes, I know it's possible but not without much faffing around and making of generators/filling the lower deck with old fork lift truck batteries, not that I've done that either in my youth...)

[wuvvum]

When we first moved to France they still had trolleybuses running on certain city centre routes.  They went like the clappers on electric, but they also had a back-up diesel engine for turning round at the end of the wires or if the power failed or the road was blocked or whatever.  They only seemed to be able to manage about 15mph on diesel though, so probably not a great deal of use as a means of transport.  Be a bit like hauling a commuter train with a Class 08.

[wuvvum]

First in Norwich still run a load of ex-London Transport Dennis Tridents, mostly on 02 and 52 plates.  They break down quite a lot.

 

If I were going for an old service bus it'd have to be a B10M.  I remember years ago when I used to get the bus up the A47 to go to work, it'd either be a Wright-bodied B10M or a Dennis Dart.  Pulling out onto the dual carriageway the little hairdryer at the back of the Dart would be screaming its bollocks off, and we'd just about get up to 50 before it was time to slow down again for the roundabout.  The B10M would turn onto the slip road, then there would be a growling noise from the back for a few seconds and we'd be doing 50 before we joined the flow of traffic.

[wuvvum]

Serious question:  How difficult is it to insure a >30yo bus if one is driving it on a B licence?  I've heard differing opinions.

 

Would the fact that I have a provisional D licence help at all? (probably not...)

[BorniteIdentity]

 

Seen in the window of a bus a couple of years ago.

You can understand his concern about the bodywork and glass... But masturbation habits really ought to be down to personal preference.

[Dave_Q]

 care to provide a reference for that assertion  , especially as 'mobile project vehicles' can still be driven  on a cat B even if brand spanking new ... 

 

are you conflating   the historic bus   driven on cat b  with   volunteers  driving Minibuses NFP or  S19 on a cat B  ?

 

DVLA  leaflet  INF 52  http://www.hillsofplumpton.co.uk/INF52.pdf

That leaflet definitely doesn't state any weight limits, however driving on that exemption you are relying on a po-leece officer knowing and understanding that particular exemption.

 

If they didn't they might decide you are driving other than in accordance etc, and recover your vehicle, which I'm sure is cheap for a big bus.

 

Personally, if embarking on a shenanigan such as bus ownership, I would do my cat D anyway, what does it cost, £1000-1500?

 

Less than a set of tyres for your new whip, and all part of the fun IMO.

[Guest Hooli]

The dream:

 

 

The AutoShite reality:

 

 

The top one is basicly what I drove for a living for a bit. Lovely things to drive with a Scania lump, 7 speed pre-select box etc. It was one of those that drifted over a bridge between roundabouts

Good aircon too, until it broke & the boss was too tight to fix it.

[martc]

Buy that Optare on BBC4's "Country Bus" slow television epic which was on earlier this week; the view out of the windows was superb*.

 

(* views may alter)

[scruff]

While I can understand the attraction of "sticking one to the man" by driving big stuff on a car licence, I will say that there's a lot more to doing PSV/HGV than passing the test, the training will get you used to driving the things and make you think about stuff you never even thought of. I had been driving tractors and large machinery for years and it was a real eye opener!! Yes it will cost but you will be much better for it and no one can bullshit you in the pub too.

[DodgeRover]

What about this Dodge?

http://www.travellerhomes.co.uk/?p=16763

[Partridge]

While I can understand the attraction of "sticking one to the man" by driving big stuff on a car licence, I will say that there's a lot more to doing PSV/HGV than passing the test, the training will get you used to driving the things and make you think about stuff you never even thought of. I had been driving tractors and large machinery for years and it was a real eye opener!! Yes it will cost but you will be much better for it and no one can bullshit you in the pub too.

Agreed. It's satisfying driving big stuff the right way. There's no way I'd be able to get wacking great coaches in the tight places I have on an almost daily basis without the training I got. I'm sure after a year or so you could train yourself to do it, but probably at the expense of paintwork, local architecture and people's toes. 

[JeeExEll]

[ShiteRider]

There was a really interesting thread over on the blue about house trucks in NZ, seemed to be mainly based on pre 80s british and jap 5t trucks.

Think the thread op was called rotary viva/hb or something like that.

The creativity of the builds and the lifestyles that went with them certainly turned my eyes green.