Wet Cabbage :(

[Joloke]

Pooo

Stinky!

 

[Tickman]

For people who think car maintenance is getting it washed every few weeks then old cars are that unreliable.

 

However for people who realise it needs checked more than once in a blue moon then no they are not.

 

Personally if you cannot do maintenance and basic fixing then it can be expensive as well as inconvenient, I can see both sides of the coin but still my newest car is 18 years old.

[Rocket88]

Old stuff is probably more prone to giving trouble, but usually much cheaper / easier to fix. You pays yer money.............

[dollywobbler]

For people who think car maintenance is getting it washed every few weeks then old cars are that unreliable.

 

However for people who realise it needs checked more than once in a blue moon then no they are not.

 

Personally if you cannot do maintenance and basic fixing then it can be expensive as well as inconvenient, I can see both sides of the coin but still my newest car is 18 years old.

 

Indeed. Reliable to me means "has completed a journey without breakdown assistance" which is not quite the same thing as "completed the journey with no problems." In my book, I've only had two 'assistance required' breakdowns in the past six or eight years, so old cars look pretty reliable. To someone watching on as I changed the 2CV's clutch cable in a car park, old cars look like a pain in the arse.

[babydriver]

It's the five years of paying for a new car that I don't like as well as the "you must have it serviced to validate the warrantee"

My Megane cost me £300 to buy 2 years ago its not had an oil change in over 30k miles and has never failed to proceed once, waiting for the cam belt lotto so I can have an excuse to replace it, all for less than a service on a Focus.

If It breaks down, I'll just lob the keys in a river and go get another one, not even covered by the AA, God I'm tight!!.

 

Some one left a big dent in my door with their BINI, wife was like WTF, I was like his cars newer, he's the one who will be sobbing.

 

Only HP I had was on a Mk3 Cortina in 1980. cost more to keep the bugger on the road than I could afford so it got repo'd. Never again.

 

Cars are like phones to me now, Pay as you go. Must be an age thing.

[PiperCub]

With colc & Tickman on this - yes, older stuff will always be inherently less reliable than some super-duper new affair but it all depends on your point of view. As said, if you are prepared to put a bit of time and a little money into them every so often, you stay on top of faults (ie: don't let them built up or get to the state they really piss you off so you grow to hate the thing) then the world is your lobster. Plus when they go wrong, they are usually fixable by a competent DIY'er with the parts at a reasonable cost and you aren't frightened to use it or leave it places if necessary.

 

To me it's just my way, I'm happy to stay this way and save alot of cash and enjoy what I drive rather than being in hock to anyone (bar my mortgage!), pay c/card bills etc in full on time, PAYG mobile too. I'm not at all fussed about fashion or what others think, amusingly, I can afford to buy many of the cars for cash that others have on tick/PCP (ie: never own) but I choose to run a 20 year old £350 daily hack because I can and prefer to save my money for other things. If someone thinks of me 'He must be a loser driving an old dog like that' then fine, as the old song goes - do I look like I give a fuck? You go your way, I'll go mine.

 

If however you either lack any sort of practical skills and don't have the desire or confidence to obtain them or simply CBA jacking with something you regard as a fashion statement or 'It gets me from A-to-B' transport then I can see the attraction of PCP's. While I'd never contemplate one as to me it's like renting a swanky uber-posh house when I can afford to actually buy a nice normal one cheaper, I get why they are popular for so many these days as fixing things (anything really) is becoming a rarity and people are far more conscious about what others think so they are of the impression they need a new car to look good/successful to the rest of the world even if that means paying through the nose for it.

(As said on here before - a case of "People spending money they don't have on things they don't need to impress people they don't know").

[dollywobbler]

The thing with claiming that new stuff is more reliable - why are the AA and RAC still in business then? 

[Keymaster]

Different strokes for different folks, there's no right or wrong to whether old cars are less reliable or owning/pcp/leasing is the right way.

 

For example, thanks to Camerons Britain, the Gatekeeper's parents are losing their motability car in a couple of months, so she needs a replacement daily. Because it needs to be a car capable of running 2 elderly disabled folks around, must have room for a wheelchair etc her chod options were limited. So she is getting a NHS lease car instead, the monthly payment covers everything except fuel and is roughly the same amount as running costs for a 6 or 7 year old c-max, without all the aggro of arranging insurance etc etc. Its the right solution for her.

[jonny69]

For people who think car maintenance is getting it washed every few weeks then old cars are that unreliable.

 

This.

 

I drive a 49 year old car as my daily but the trade-off is I have to maintain it. It'll never be a turn the key and go. It's reliable enough that I don't bother carrying tools.

 

Most people think that if you've got the bonnet up then your car is shit/unreliable/broken down or you're poor/a cunt. That's their mentality.

[Angrydicky]

My daily is 63 years old. I go everywhere in it, on the motorway and all over the country. I keep it well-maintained and have had one, solitary breakdown in over a year, and it was so minor that I barely count it - crap from the tank coming through from a failed inline filter. Changed the filter, cleaned out the carb, and I was on my way again. I do carry tools, but don't find myself using them very often.

 

Yes, modern cars are ideal for someone not interested in cars who wants to get from A to B with zero maintenance, but if you've got some basic mechanical knowledge, and the interest then you can run something very interesting indeed quite happily, every day.

[derskine]

My newest car is a D reg and I commute 200 miles a week.

 

It depends entirely on the car to be honest. I wouldn't fancy laying this sort of mileage on my Imp but my Volvo 360 manages fine.

That's not to say it doesn't need maintenance, because they all do, but if you're logical and preventative you can just about avoid catastrophic failures.

 

I don't take my cars to a garage for anything other than an MOT, so I guess if you're not mechanically savvy then running an old car daily definitely isn't for you, as it'd probably get expensive.

[Angrydicky]

I am guilty of farming out work to garages occasionally, but it's always big oily jobs that are much easier on a ramp, that I can't be bothered with. Things like clutches and spring changes. I supply the parts then give them to the garage who fit them for cash.

 

The Maestro is a bit different really. I had a bit of cash spare and the car needed loads of work doing that I didn't have the time to do. I'm going to end up spending more than it's worth sorting it out - but I like the car, and they're very rare now, so why not? I don't subscribe to bangernomics, I just spend what I need to to keep my cars in good shape.

[lisbon_road]

Cars got reliable after points went, in about 1984.  And preferably electronic fuel injection, though some carb systems were very good.  

 

Does worry me when people buy ancient cars and expect them to be as reliable as a new one, and be able to be left outside and so on.  But life goes on.........they're only cars............

[dollywobbler]

I don't think there's any shame in farming jobs out Dicky. I used to farm stuff out all the time when I could afford it. Still cheaper than depreciation or finance, and the 'profits' went to people I liked, rather than car dealers (sorry car dealers!) and the banking sector.

[Junkman]

What do you consider 'old'?

 

I had a string of 90s Peugeot 405s and each provided impeccable service to the extent of me finding them terminally boring.

Honestly, I stopped opening bonnets from one service to the next, i.e. for 10,000 miles at a time. I don't even check the air in the tyres anymore on these.

 

I only ever bought 3 new cars in my life and that was back in the Eighties. All others were usually at least 15 years old at the time of purchase.

When I started a travelling business doing 50k miles annually throughout Europe, I did so with a (for me) relatively new 8 year old Granada, before I sold it in favour of something older.

 

My current daily is 40 years old and has proven itself pretty reliable lately.

[Junkman]

Cars got reliable after points went, in about 1984.  And preferably electronic fuel injection, though some carb systems were very good.  

 

 

 

That's the biggest nonsense I've ever read. The exact opposite is true.

[derskine]

That's the biggest nonsense I've ever read.

I was going to comment if adjusted periodically, points are no less reliable - but condensers are shit.

[Alexg]

Mrs G has a Fiesta on PCP. It's not an emotional purchase like a classic car or my Rover 75, it offered piece of mind at an affordable price for a woman that gets in a flap with cars if things aren't right. It shows 58mpg average and is safe and reliable. It's not the most cost effective way of running a car, but at least we know what and where the costs are.

[Negative Creep]

Overall I think I've been pretty lucky when it comes to things breaking. These days I think it's fair to say engine trouble and rust are very rare, but it's electronics and cost of repair that sends modern cars to the Bridge of Doom. The big difference is that things don't need regular adjusting or tinkering to keep them working as they should. And whilst it may be the antithesis of this site, I can see how PCP and hire purchase would suit some people. It may be a glorified rental, but if you bought it brand new you'd lose money in depreciation anyway.

[RayMK]

I've had a rotor arm fail on a Reliant and the spring on a set of points on my Stellar failed a week after I bought the car (spring was rusty).  No trouble whatever with condensers and only one or two instances of jet blockage on carbs (easily fixed).  Coil packs: Several. Fixing: Expensive.

I don't rate the reliability of an electronics laden older car as any different from a points and carb set-up.  Just that the former is bridged, the latter fixed when trouble occurs.

[skattrd]

Didn't we have this discussion 2 weeks ago?

[PiperCub]

Most people think that if you've got the bonnet up then your car is shit/unreliable/broken down or you're poor/a cunt. That's their mentality.

 

My point exactly - if I had a fiver for everyone who has said 'Got trouble?' 'What's the matter with it?' etc etc when I've got the bonnet up and am simply doing my weekly checks (oil, coolant etc) then I'd be retired some time ago. Most folk (esp round my way were even the kids have almost new cars) just can't seem to get their heads around the concept of any type of maintenance.

Oh well, their loss and the local garage's gain! Mechanics have to eat too. 

[Urko]

I remember Ted Connolly answering a question about what a reliable car is by saying "one you like".

 

Modern stuff gets forgiven a lot because people need to justify the hundreds a month payments - so they put a positive spin on the fact that it only took the nice man from BMW an hour to come and load their 2 week old car (I have actually seen positive reviews like this) up and take it to be fixed.

[xtriple]

The difference is: old cars can be reliable if maintained. New cars can be reliable regardless of whether they are maintained or not.

 

Right up to the point they go 'BANG'!

 

Modern stuff is much more tolerant of neglect and modern people are very, very good at neglect.

 

In a few years, it will be worse as all the 'new' cars of today, are the 5 year old cars and will all be unreliable and need loads doing to them because they have never been serviced, so the myth that old cars are shit will be perpetuated.

[SiC]

It may be a glorified rental, but if you bought it brand new you'd lose money in depreciation anyway.

I got told by an accountant that if you are buying an appreciating asset use your own money, if a depreciating asset use someone else's money!

 

Also because of so much cheap money floating around at the moment and because the manufacturers put a lot of these deals together with banks, you can actually get better deals on finance than walking in with cash. Unless you are a a++++ negotiator.

 

I can totally see why people spend xx p/m on a new car. If I didn't do work on my own cars, know a good garage for backup and the cars weren't reliable, I'd totally get at least one financed car.

 

However I've made the gamble that the depreciation, servicing and repair costs per month on my current second hand older cars is less than finance. So far I'm utterly winning.

 

Which is rather boring, especially when they always work. The engineer and tinker in me want to fix something. Possibly why I'm looking at (potentially) unreliable Laguna II v6s?

[scruff]

Really there is no reason why anything post-WW2 shouldn't be reliable given the basics of servicing - by reliable, jump in and start, get to your destination without breaking down - longevity is something different, as noticed elsewhere a hard driven A series or Pinto will be shagged at 70k, still running mind...! 

 

We just live in different times now don't we, even when i was a kid in the 80s people were servicing their own cars in the street outside our terraced house and a few hardy souls were doing more involved stuff like clutches. 

 

The problem I've always encountered is unreliability caused by previous owner buggeration, 9 times out of 10 electrical. 

[LC Torana]

Cars got reliable after points went, in about 1984.  And preferably electronic fuel injection, though some carb systems were very good.  

 

Does worry me when people buy ancient cars and expect them to be as reliable as a new one, and be able to be left outside and so on.  But life goes on.........they're only cars............

 

My daily driver is 40 years old

 

It has points.

 

It has carbs.

 

and it lives outside.

 

I regard it as reliable.

 

 

The key is that you must accept the premise that replacing parts worn-out from use or old age is not a reliability but a maintenance issue.

 

Occasionally, a part failure will cause a breakdown.

For example. my car's ignition died on the road a few years ago.  The cause?  The ignition coil failed.

When I pulled the old coil out to replace it, the Lucas date stamp showed the coil to be older than the car.  35 years' solid unbroken service for a part, is bloody good in my book.

[SiC]

Any car can last forever. Just depends how much the current owner is prepared to spend in time and money...

 

This is why I think 10-15 year old German shite gets fixed and the equivilant aged French shite gets crushed - because French stuff has no value left in it and seen as disposable. This is different on the continent where they are worth more and hence actually more likely to be fixed.

[fordperv]

I have never found old cars unreliable, but I am militant about servicing and upkeep, the newest car I own is 24 years old this year and is about as modern as I'd like to get

[Asimo]

Moderns are unreliable in a different way.

Subaru has an annoying intermittant immobiliser issue, can take a minute or so to get the thing to recognise that  the key button has been pressed and the alarm goes off if the locking remote is used. That apart it is reliable: I would be amazed if it failed to complete a journey.

Likewise the Honda: all of it works except for the exploding-cushion system which is preventing MOT and thus has rendered the whole car useless.

 

Both could be fixed with vast amounts of money through manufacturers dealerships but will more likely be bodged or fudged by me for no cost but loads of time that I won't get back.