Rover immobiliser eggspurt needed

[barmatt]

I've always had a soft spot for old Rovers and because of that I ended up buying this one the other day with an immobiliser issue (I know, big surprise). Just to save it from the people around here that would smash it up.

 

 

 

 

I've had issues with the old Lucas alarms on landies before now and I've always managed to sort them but this bugger has me stumped.

 

I've got the EKA code and have followed the necessary procedure to disable the immobiliser but to no avail, It's got 2 fobs which both work (new batteries in both) they unlock and lock the doors but turn the key in the ignition, dash lights up, you can hear the fuel pump prime, turn the key to start and nothing happens.

 

I got the home by bump starting it, so the immob is only on the live feed to the starter I guess? can this be bypassed?

 

It's a lovely little car, quite high spec, 16v twin cam jobbie with 87k miles, leccy front windows, mirrors, sunroof and they all work, owned by 1 family, really clean mot history. Not sure what I'm going to do with it if Ican get it working, BiL wants a new motor but he doesn't maintain his cars so it would be dead in a couple of years or I'd rather roffle it on here to see it go to a fellow shiter.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Roverageous]

I don't know much about electrickery, but the fobs have the immobiliser chips in which are read by something in the steering column - so you have to have one fob near the column when trying to start the car - it's independant of the locking / unlocking and alarm. Are both the small black chips sat properly inside the fobs? If they are maybe its the thing in the steering column that's supposed to recognise them?

 

Oh, also, potential interested registered when you come to move it on

[barmatt]

I don't know much about electrickery, but the fobs have the immobiliser chips in which are read by something in the steering column - so you have to have one fob near the column when trying to start the car - it's independant of the locking / unlocking and alarm. Are both the small black chips sat properly inside the fobs? If they are maybe its the thing in the steering column that's supposed to recognise them?

 

Oh, also, potential interested registered when you come to move it on

 

These are the old 2 button fobs like this http://www.amazon.co.uk/Rover-Remote-Control-Case-Shell/dp/B005M23D64

 

do these have a seperate chip in them? I'v e had these in landies and not known there to be anything in them apart from the little circuit board.

[Roverageous]

My 45 has the same fobs and definitely has immobiliser chips in! Never checked inside the fobs for an R8 though, sooooo.... I might be wrong

[Joey spud]

Have you cleaned the large spade terminal on the starter solenoid ?

[gadgetgricey]

Its pissing down with rain here, so dont want to go outside and get wet.

On mine I'm certain there is an Alarm indicator LED on the dash that turns off when the alarm is disabled.

 

That should be a physical sign that the alarm has turned off. If so then it could be unrelated as mentioned above.

[SamR380]

I don't want to send you down the wrong path, but are you sure it's immobilised? If you're able to bump start it, it's either a pretty rubbish immobiliser or there's something else wrong.

[Barry Cade]

Snot the immobiliser. Do you get a fast red flashing light and a beeper when the key is in the start position? No chip in these... Stick 12v straight to the small terminal on the starter. If it starts you have an old fashioned electrical problem

[Lankytim]

I had this on a 214, turned out to be the link wire from the solenoid to the starter. Took me weeks to figure out it wasn't the immobiliser!

[Pete-M]

I fixed one of these by attaching a power probe to the terminals coming from the relay box thing* and working all the relays open and closed.

 

*power distribution unit or summat.

[barmatt]

Have you cleaned the large spade terminal on the starter solenoid ?

 

This made me go and have a look at cleaning the spade

I don't want to send you down the wrong path, but are you sure it's immobilised? If you're able to bump start it, it's either a pretty rubbish immobiliser or there's something else wrong.

True

 

Snot the immobiliser. Do you get a fast red flashing light and a beeper when the key is in the start position? No chip in these... Stick 12v straight to the small terminal on the starter. If it starts you have an old fashioned electrical problem

 

You're correct!

I had this on a 214, turned out to be the link wire from the solenoid to the starter. Took me weeks to figure out it wasn't the immobiliser!

 

You're ABSOLUTLEY correct.

 

We have a WINNER/S

 

Had a look at the starter, touched the wire connecting the solenoid to the motor and it wasn't attached.

 

 

New starter it is then.

 

Who said this place isn't what it used to be?

 

Thanks a lot guys, I just needed to look at it froma different angle.

[dieselnutjob]

I don't know much about electrickery, but the fobs have the immobiliser chips in which are read by something in the steering column - 

 

Not applicable to old Rovers.

 

The engine ECU is matched to the 5AS (alarm  / immo), so, even if the immo is unarmed correctly the engine ECU from a different car would not run.  You can re-match them though, and also read out the EKA using my product.

 

I am pretty sure that an immobilised engine ECU will not affect the starter motor though.  I think that the starter will still crank, it's just that the ECU will not actually run the engine.

 

I would say in this case that you have a failure in the ignition switch, the wire to the starter, or the starter itself.

 

Edit: as now confirmed by OP

Edited February 17, 2016 by dieselnutjob

[KruJoe]

Me and the bloke at a garage had a right flipping head-scratch session after he'd had my 216's battery off to do the cambelt.  It was stubbornly immobilised. I know Barmatt's got this one sorted, but I just want you all to know that the key must be in with ignition turned to ON (running position) when you re-connect the battery on these R8's. Keep the door/window open in case it goes tits up and locks you out. KTHNXBAI.

[HH-R]

An immobilised 45 just makes a sad sounding beep and no cranking. I think Metros were the same too but can't remember.

[Eddie Honda]

 

New starter it is then.

 

Who said this place isn't what it used to be?

Me. Now. New starter???!!! Does nobody fix anything any more?!!

[New POD]

I don't want to send you down the wrong path, but are you sure it's immobilised? If you're able to bump start it, it's either a pretty rubbish immobiliser or there's something else wrong.

What he said. Immobiliser would turn off fuel pump.

[barmatt]

Me. Now. New starter???!!! Does nobody fix anything any more?!!

 

I was waiting for that

 

I have just taken the starter off to see if I can repair it, the wire joining the two parts is totally corroded and I can't see how to get it out of the motor to replace it and the solenoid is fubared, so if I bought a solenoid and could replace the wire into the motor would it be cheaper/easier than a used one? Anyhoo, a recon unit is £20.

[New POD]

This made me go and have a look at cleaning the spade

 

True

 

 

 

You're correct!

 

 

You're ABSOLUTLEY correct.

 

We have a WINNER/S

 

Had a look at the starter, touched the wire connecting the solenoid to the motor and it wasn't attached.

 

 

New starter it is then.

 

Who said this place isn't what it used to be?

 

Thanks a lot guys, I just needed to look at it froma different angle.

A 1 hour fix. Strip the starter, replace wires, clean it up, put it back. £1 MAX

[New POD]

_{https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4QcDOt-ieU8}

[scaryoldcortina]

A 1 hour fix. Strip the starter, replace wires, clean it up, put it back. £1 MAX

 

That looks like it got very hot before it snapped - look at the colour of the copper! 1 hour fix on a still broken starter.....

[KruJoe]

Aye. I'm all for make-do-and-mend mingebaggery, but a fresh one at £20 has gotta be the way to go.

 

a recon unit is £20

[wuvvum]

Pretty much the exact same thing happened on the Rover of Doom.  The starters are a piece of piss to replace on these (or on R3s at least) - for the price of a secondhand one, I wouldn't bother trying to fix it, much as that goes against the AS spirit...

[mercedade]

... but I just want you all to know that the key must be in with ignition turned to ON (running position) when you re-connect the battery on these R8's. Keep the door/window open in case it goes tits up and locks you out. KTHNXBAI.

 

Here's why I love Rover. Because, if you were to do the same thing on a Rover 800 of exactly the same age,  you would trigger the SRS light which cannot be turned off without the intervention of the MagicRoverDealershipCrew. When reconnecting the battery on an 800, accepted good practice is to place the keys in a lead-lined bunker buried under Fred West's patio, JUST TO BE SURE.

[Partridge]

I'm not sure if anyone has mentioned this yet, but make sure that the fob is synced to the car properly. They can get out of sync if you change the batteries (or even drop them it turns out!). Like yours, my 800 would light up its dash and prime the fuel pump but not turn over. All I needed to do was sync the fob to the car after the batteries popped out. You do it by unlocking it and stabbing one of the buttons three times or something. I think. It was a while ago. Google it.

[Barry Cade]

If it's not synced, the central locking won't work, the systems work together, so if it unlocks, its unimmobilisered.

[Des]

SNAPPPPPP!

 

 

£20? How the other half live eh? I soldered mine.

This reminds me of when I worked with a right know all dick 20 odd years ago, a dead Rover was dragged in, from the bleep bleep of the remote I recognised the presence of a shit alarm that was a dealer fit in Rovers, VWs, Toyotas etc. These fuckers caused countless breakdowns from the way they were installed by cunts who would cut the starter feed wire under the steering column and twist/tape a couple of brown wires from the shit alarm into the circuit. Know all dick spent the morning cocking around the Rover, lunchtime came and he only went up to Macess to buy a Haynes mongbook, what a wanker. I kept an eye on the twat while he tried to make sense of a wiring diagram before going back to removing random bits of trim and poking around, then just before knocking off time know all dick announces that he can't find the fault, this is as close as the big headed, know all, authority on all subjects wanker ever came to asking for help, so I walked over, pulled a ready spread circuit bridging split pin from my pocket and pushed it into the relevant terminals at the exposed column and POW! fired the Rover up, fixed in 5 seconds. Then I laughed in know all dicks face while removing my overalls and fucked off home.

[HH-R]

The "press the buttons to discharge the fob after the old battery has been removed" step is important, as I found out when I was stranded (at the drive in, branded a fool) and the EKA code I was given seemed to be from a completely different car. After the 20th time of failure and then pressing the damn buttons it actually worked.

[Mr_Bo11ox]

SNAPPPPPP!

 

 

£20? How the other half live eh? I soldered mine.

 

 

Thats a bit of my handiwork!!! Sure enough I thought I had an immobiliser problem till I traced it to that bit of rotten copper braid.

[Des]

It is indeed, and lasted over a year sitting at varying levels of my to-do list until the airborne pollution of VAG diesel fumes and kitten tear vapour re-nommed it. I had mad plans of flattening and drilling the end of a copper pipe to make a lengthened terminal on the solenoid, as it turned out the existing one reached fine when reorientated a tad.

[barmatt]

New starter got here yesterday, bunged it in this aft and the little rover now starts first turn of the key. Cracking little motor to drive.

 

Thanks again for the assisstance guys.