Taxi - powered by coal, nuclear and gas

[Inspector Morose]

Flywheel hybrid you say?

 

 

 

This uses a 1 1/2 tonne flywheel as a energy storage device enabling the use of a small (transit petrol tuned for gas) engine to propel itself along the rails. In use every day on the Stourbridge town to Stourbridge junction branch line and capable of moving ( not carrying at the same time, obviously) the same number of people as the single car sprinter that it replaced. (Soft spot for this as it was my first project managers job - long story)

[jonny69]

My estimate to charge a LEAF was £10 per go at least. 2p? I don't think so unless you've got a solar farm in he back garden.

 

2p per mile would be plausible I think. S

 

I'm testing a VW e-Golf later in the month. I'll try and do some more sums then.

 

Should be a bit less than that. 24kwh battery and let's say you lose 25-30% in the charger and actually draw 30kWh in the process. At approx. 16p per unit on conventional leccy supply it should work out around £5 per charge, or around £2.20 on an overnight Economy 7 at 7p per unit.

[Luxxo Waftybarger]

Was in a battered Prius last night (just high miles, not coated in a fried flour and egg mix) it sounded like a bag of spanners. Worse than my sister's rarely serviced diesel Land Rover 90. Would drive me mad if I were the taxi driver. Leaf on other hand will probably sound the same for ever so long as the brakes and tyres are ok. Much more pleasant to be in and with the added bonus of being easier to run over gormless yoofs staring at their phones as they step into the road.

[cort16]

Citroen may be giving up on hydro spastic suspension but they're now doing compressed air/petrol hybrids. Compressed air is a great idea I recon as it's quick to recharge and the pump that reflills the bottles can be taken from any power source.

 

 

http://blog.caranddriver.com/citroen-debuts-oddly-brilliant-hybrid-air-powertrain-production-version-coming-2013-geneva-auto-show/

[dollywobbler]

Should be a bit less than that. 24kwh battery and let's say you lose 25-30% in the charger and actually draw 30kWh in the process. At approx. 16p per unit on conventional leccy supply it should work out around £5 per charge, or around £2.20 on an overnight Economy 7 at 7p per unit.

 

Cool. I never was much good with numbers! In that case, driving to Devon and back in the Nissan e-NV200 last November cost us £10 for a 500-mile trip. Not that it was much fun...

[tul66]

Been living with the leaf for a few weeks now, It's bloody brilliant, I've just clicked over 500 miles in it. 

 

 

They may be ok for short, local trips but no use for the kind of use I need.

[Wilko220]

While we're on the subject of electric taxis, let's not forget about the exciting* new MCW Metrocab...

 

 

http://www.newmetrocab.com/

[willswitchengage]

Citroen may be giving up on hydro spastic suspension but they're now doing compressed air/petrol hybrids. Compressed air is a great idea I recon as it's quick to recharge and the pump that reflills the bottles can be taken from any power source.

 

 

http://blog.caranddriver.com/citroen-debuts-oddly-brilliant-hybrid-air-powertrain-production-version-coming-2013-geneva-auto-show/

 

Really inefficient though as gases lose loads of their energy to heat rejection when being compressed and again when being released from their pressure vessels (they get very cold). Reliable and simple but also very dangerous due to the massive pressures needed to store the stuff.

 

Interestingly Scania do this on their buses where the air compressor is only turned during engine braking etc - not when the engine is under load. Clever.

[dollywobbler]

They may be ok for short, local trips but no use for the kind of use I need.

 

I see this comment a LOT when it comes to electric. I'm not really sure why people feel the need to keep stating that electric doesn't work for them. You don't see folk marching into Pistonheads just to say that a fuel-slurping V8 wouldn't work for them on a daily basis. 

 

Even worse are some of the people where I live, who loved telling me how electric cars 'won't work around here.' Really? So, driving the 12 miles to town and back, which is all most folk do, is beyond an electric car then? Give me a break!

[Tayne]

The lack of designated parking and charging facilities for city dwellers who live in flats is a bigger issue

[Asimo]

Easy to simulate living with an 80 mile range: only put 80 miles worth of fuel into your (empty) tank.

 

Only replace that fuel where there are charging points and then wait however long a charge would take before driving on. 

 

You would have to stay on the ball not to get caught out.

 

 

There will be a lot of roadside charging trucks if these EV sales continue.

 

 

[Guest gostin]

Sorry guys it was 2p per mile.

As an aside she was told that all service stations have to install a 30 min quick charge point by the end of next year.

Anyone heard similar?

[tul66]

I see this comment a LOT when it comes to electric. I'm not really sure why people feel the need to keep stating that electric doesn't work for them. You don't see folk marching into Pistonheads just to say that a fuel-slurping V8 wouldn't work for them on a daily basis. 

 

Have you ever considered the reason you continually hear it is because it's true for a lot of people?

[Squire_Dawson]

If the same amount of time and cash had been put into developing electrically propelled vehicels, which had been invented around the same time as the gasoline engine, if not before, it would have reached perfection long ago. It could still be done today were it not for legislation, manufacturers and consumers demanding banal 'standards of comfort', 'innovations', crippling safety requirements and pointless bloody shit which saps more power. It pisses me off. Zero carbon economy? Phase out fossil fuel in G7 nations by the end of this century? My God, there'd be a bloody war and famine and mass death, nuns and kittens &c. &c. We are so dependant on power now that it doesn't bear thinking about what'll happen given a prolonged shortage, let alone a complete ban on fossil fuel. The key is drastically reducing the amount we already use.

[cort16]

Most of it is habit. What happens if if run out? What happens if I forget to charge it? What happens if in 3 years the battery is frazzled? In a lot of peoples eyes it's just easier to buy a petrol car.

That'll change in time though I guess.

[forddeliveryboy]

Really inefficient though as gases lose loads of their energy to heat rejection when being compressed and again when being released from their pressure vessels (they get very cold). Reliable and simple but also very dangerous due to the massive pressures needed to store the stuff.

 

Yes, but the figures I've seen suggest that even with the losses in compression, using hydrids with regen is more than three times the efficiency than an electric car with regen, for the reasons I've already mentioned.

 

Dangerous, eh? Hospitals must be bloody lethal places with all those BOC bottles right under people's beds? Anything can be dangerous if done wrongly - I've always been surprised at how few explosions there are with petrol cars involved in bad accidents.

[dollywobbler]

Have you ever considered the reason you continually hear it is because it's true for a lot of people?

 

So what? It's also true that superminis are shit at carrying lengths of 2x4 but you rarely hear van owners pointing that out. EV makes no more sense for you than running a Jaguar XJ40. Fortunately, there are other options. I know there are some real EV-angelists out there, but no-one on this forum is claiming an Electric Car is some miraculous answer to the world's problems. Some of us just like the eco-aspect, the novelty and the technology (even though I hate technology).

[willswitchengage]

Yes, but the figures I've seen suggest that even with the losses in compression, using hydrids with regen is more than three times the efficiency than an electric car with regen, for the reasons I've already mentioned.

 

Dangerous, eh? Hospitals must be bloody lethal places with all those BOC bottles right under people's beds? Anything can be dangerous if done wrongly - I've always been surprised at how few explosions there are with petrol cars involved in bad accidents.

 

Petrol doesn't explode. For an explosion you need your oxidiser and fuel mixed, like in, er, explosives (I work for a defence company that makes them...)

 

Those BOC bottles are surpsisngly low pressure and have you ever lifted one? Not practical 4 cars due to shape and weight. Look how silly CNG buses look with all those gas bottles on the roof

 

Plus you need air dryers and all that jazz - it's not as simple as it sounds although is a good rival idea. It still uses the IC engine though to work so you keep the inherent inefficiencies in that, unlike a Prius which is half Daimler-Benz motor-car and half flymo electric lawnmower

[dollywobbler]

The lack of designated parking and charging facilities for city dwellers who live in flats is a bigger issue

 

I have serious concerns already about the charging infrastructure. There has been a vast increase in the number of EVs, but not the charging capacity to match. That trip we took to Devon saw us battle for a charger three times! We just got there first every time, but a little later and we would have had to wait for someone else to charge for half an hour before we could even start putting some fresh juice in. That simply isn't good enough. I don't drink that much tea! (certainly not at motorway services prices).

[forddeliveryboy]

Petrol doesn't explode. For an explosion you need your oxidiser and fuel mixed, like in, er, explosives (I work for a defence company that makes them...)

 

Those BOC bottles are surpsisngly low pressure and have you ever lifted one? Not practical 4 cars due to shape and weight. Look how silly CNG buses look with all those gas bottles on the roof

 

Plus you need air dryers and all that jazz - it's not as simple as it sounds although is a good rival idea. It still uses the IC engine though to work so you keep the inherent inefficiencies in that, unlike a Prius which is half Daimler-Benz motor-car and half flymo electric lawnmower

 

Thing is, people don't ride around with their tanks brimmed all the time. I think the fuel/air mix is quite narrow for it to pose a threat though - a mate found a pile of used matches by his filler neck one night and a few more floating in the tank.

 

How dangerous are LPG tanks, I wonder?

 

Time after time there's the old quote about inefficient IC engines, few know about the (in)efficiencies of our filthy power stations. Biomass - sounds green, until you do the sums, ignoring the environmental destruction. The problem with the ICE car is that for so long fuel has been cheap and treated as limitless, so we have 1.5 tonne cars to carry one person and 10kg of shopping. With more acceleration than is required for safety.

 

Hope you're not citing a Prius as remotely efficient, wsg? My 20 year old heavyish TDi averages more than they do, and it works for a living.

[dollywobbler]

A modern diesel is what, about 40-45% efficient? On Saturday, 40% of the UK's electricity was generated by renewables. That was a good day to charge your electric car.

 

To be honest, LPG gives me the same fear as Hydrogen. Highly explosive stuff under pressure? I'd rather not thanks.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H4ZKKyclrjA

[mouseflakes]

2) Re-discover the legs as a means of locomotion;

 

I've heard some farmers have completely lost the use of their legs since discovering quad bikes.

[Jim Bell]

I'm the first to admit that I'm stupid, so can someone explain to me how a vehicle with an 80 mile range is of any use as a private hire vehicle?

Leafs have a 5 hour (?!) "quick charge" cycle for every 80 miles driven?

Most taxis (cars) I know work 10-24 hours a day.

How on earth can a Leaf be making anyone any money if you have to take off the road for 5 hours, two or thee times a day? That's most of the day charging surely?

Or does every Taxi driver running Leafs have three cars on the go?

 

Sounds like genius to me.

[forddeliveryboy]

A modern diesel is what, about 40-45% efficient? On Saturday, 40% of the UK's electricity was generated by renewables. That was a good day to charge your electric car.

 

 

That's a bit like saying, I averaged 150mpg down a long gentle descent the other day. On average renewables account for about 20% of UK leccy. Coal, nuclear and gas make up the bulk of our supply. But at least we're (slowly) moving in the right direction, with the exception of planning more nukes.

 

What is needed fast is a smart grid with mass energy storage, even if this means production of bio-methane when the sun's bright and the wind's strong.

[forddeliveryboy]

I'm the first to admit that I'm stupid, so can someone explain to me how a vehicle with an 80 mile range is of any use as a private hire vehicle?

Leafs have a 5 hour (?!) "quick charge" cycle for every 80 miles driven?

Most taxis (cars) I know work 10-24 hours a day.

How on earth can a Leaf be making anyone any money if you have to take off the road for 5 hours, two or thee times a day? That's most of the day charging surely?

Or does every Taxi driver running Leafs have three cars on the go?

 

Sounds like genius to me.

 

 

Don't ask us, ring them - I haven't a clue.

 

 

[Hendry]

I know nothing about this other than to say i think the end of DIY maintenance could happen with major introduction of EVs, i got chatting to the National Tyres mobile van fitter who comes into my work, they had asked him to go and replace a tyre on a BMW I8, seemingly he cannot do it as the car needs to go to BMW dealer and be put on computer and "told" it is being jacked up before jacking it up, else it throws a hissy fit and brings up warning lights/messages etc.

[Ghosty]

That's daft, but unsurprising. On Binis if you reinflate the tyres, you have to reset the sensors on the car, but you can do that yourself.

[twosmoke300]

I'm the first to admit that I'm stupid, so can someone explain to me how a vehicle with an 80 mile range is of any use as a private hire vehicle?

Leafs have a 5 hour (?!) "quick charge" cycle for every 80 miles driven?

Most taxis (cars) I know work 10-24 hours a day.

How on earth can a Leaf be making anyone any money if you have to take off the road for 5 hours, two or thee times a day? That's most of the day charging surely?

Or does every Taxi driver running Leafs have three cars on the go?

 

Sounds like genius to me.

Maybe they get plugged in and topped up while they sit there blocking the road , reading the sunday sport and scowling at people walking round town . (ie most of their day)

 

Or is this just the taxis in my town?

[stephen01]

Have you ever considered the reason you continually hear it is because it's true for a lot of people?

 

But so is having a 5.0 V8, yeah it's ok I only do short trips so I can cope with sub 20 MPG, 

 

I'm not banging on saying it's the next best thing and you can drive to france, and you're saving nuns & kittens in the process, while saving cash on fuel, If I wanted to save cash I wouldn't have spunked 26k on a electric car would I? 

 

The Leaf meets 80-90% of our trips, it's primarily the wifes car and she works 5 miles from home, so most weeks it's getting charged once a week, while electric cars (leaf) may not meet everyones needs 100% of the time for a pure electric car I think it's come a long way and it's only going to get better if sales keep increasing. 

 

Again it's each to their own, I like old classic cars, that still have to have a bit of lead replacement chucked in the tank, but I also like stepping into something completely different that makes no noise while doing 80 on the M5.

[Luxxo Waftybarger]

The lack of designated parking and charging facilities for city dwellers who live in flats is a bigger issue

Agreed. This applies to me, couldn't have one even if I wanted to. Leccy cars are strictly for the burbs.