Dave's shonkers - continuing electroshite

[Dave_Q]

It's a totally fair question.

Like you say in sports and "general" motorbikes the most common wheel size is 17". Mopeds and scooters, a lot have 10" but 12, 13 or 14" also exist.

Generally a smaller wheel is lighter and quicker steering, a large wheel is the opposite so more stable, particularly at high speed.

If you think about scooter vs motorbike, the scooter is designed for nipping around town at low speeds, the small wheels are best for this but might start to get wobbly at high speed (in theory), whereas the 17" wheel is more stable at high speed and slower steering/response round town. 

These bikes I guess are designed for something in between, a fun bike to blast around both towns and lower speed twisties but the top speed as standard is only about 65 and it will take a while to get there. So the wheels/tyres are somewhere in between the low speed optimised 10" town scooter and the 70+mph optimised sportsbike.

These bikes don't really fit into a box, most smaller/"monkey" bikes before this were designed badly or made with shitty components and therefore not that good to ride, Honda put a lot of design effort into making these good to ride and the standard suspension etc is pretty decent, which is why they are so popular IMO. 

I've had a few overpowered crotch rockets and while there is a childish satisfaction in giving it the beans, in reality unless you are a super skilled rider or have a weaker sense of self preservation than I do you just can't use anything like 100% of their capabilities.

There isn't another bike on the market (other than copies of this idea) that is as well matched to the real conditions of a normal human riding on UK roads IMO.

[Dave_Q]

Painting is done. The boomerangs turned out pretty well despite me managing to drip some sweat on one while doing the first clear coat. The mudguard less so, it's got a few areas where the damage shows through but a significant improvement on being held together with cable ties. 

I also had a go at remapping it as mentioned here: 

There are various standalone and piggyback options for the Grom, the general consensus is that an ARacer & wideband logger at ≈£600 is the best solution. 
There are also one or two places offering a reflash of the standard ECU but all US based. 

The software I was trying to make was originally an open source project that the developer took private and now charges $150 for. Totally fair to make a living but I was hoping to manage it for free. I did in the end, by finding an old version online. 

The Grom ECU only has 48kB storage, so there are not a lot of tables. In fact basically just 2, one for fuel and one for timing. 

I've left the timing and added some fuel, and put the rev limit up from 9250rpm to 10000.

Before:

After:

Hoping to get out for a test ride later. 

Also inbound this week was this ER6N, which is for my wife who recenty passed her test. 

[Dave_Q]

Pretty pleased with how this has turned out. 

Headlight boomerang is a part I painted, the side panel is original paint, it's a good match.

You can see in this light some of the wobbly reflections where the mudguard is made of filler, staples and hope underneath the paint. 

The new second hand side panels aren't super mint but that's OK, I can't own anything really nice anyway as I haven't got the time or energy to keep things clean/nice. 

I also changed the oil and fitted half a set of 60% stiffer clutch springs. This was delayed a few days when I found that the oil strainer was missing from the engine. Turns out that the sump bolt was a random bolt that had been cut down, and I guess it was too long for the strainer to fit. 

Just been out for a v.short blast and all seems well. I saw 70 indicated on the speedo on a downhill stretch and could maintain 55/56 on the same stretch back up. I don't think the top speed will be loads different but I reckon that an indicated 55-60mph cruise will be no problem on a flat road. 

Sadly according to my phone gps, 60mph on the speedo is actually 80kmh/50mph, and 70mph is 93kmh/58mph.

[UltraWomble]

Looks loads better that Dave.
Though it would be eleventy times betterer still if it was yellow.

 

[Dave_Q]

I've already got a yellow Vespa. My youngest is obsessed with red and the red goes with me red van and red car.

[UltraWomble]

I'm biased. 

 

[Dave_Q]

Noice. I do prefer the look of the high mount exhaust, I've got a 19usd aliexpreshial link pipe on the way to move mine up there.

[Dave_Q]

Put the high level link pipe on, it did need a bit of bending to fit but for about £30 all in I'm not complaining.

I've pointed it out to the side a bit so it doesn't melt the number plate or indicator but that has made it look a bit wonky so it might get bent back in. Or I could splash out a further £20 or so on a Yoshimura* can.

[Cavcraft]

By God, that looks a million times better. Hats off to you.

[Dave_Q]

Thanks Billy, TBH I only did a couple of bits myself, most of the panels are new/decent used.

[Matty]

1 hour ago, Dave_Q said:

Thanks Billy, TBH I only did a couple of bits myself, most of the panels are new/decent used.

Said I'd never do a bike again, but they look top fun

[Dave_Q]

On 9/15/2023 at 10:14 PM, Matty said:

Said I'd never do a bike again, but they look top fun

Well worth a look, much better to ride than you think and small enough to fit in any shed/cellar/house so you don't have to be worried about some scrote having it away all the time.

Also:

Need to trim the cables and for some reason am getting no electrics at all out of my new rewired stator (more likely to be the crusty old bike side wiring loom TBH) but sounding pretty good.

[Dave_Q]

Had a few mins on it between meetings, would be good to get it in for an MOT soon.

The electricity is a bit of a head scratcher, the wiring up to the regulator checks out and if I power the bike from a test battery at the reg connection everything works (except the horn cos DC not AC) but there is no reason the regulator should have stopped while it's been sat.

I checked the output and my meter says it's giving 40v AC which the FB group reckons should be blowing all my bulbs but it's not. Maybe the meter is wrong? It is quite shit. Probably gonna parts darts a regulator to at least rule it out.

The thing also managed to piss a litre or so of petrol out of the carb overflow which can make one very popular when your garage is part of the house. Down to dickhead here not setting the float height when I chucked the refurb kit in the carb, now hopefully resolved and scented candles doing an incomplete job of covering up the smell in the hallway.

[Dave_Q]

Picked up a regulator today but couldn't run it afterwards to check as all the petrol fell out again.

A combination of having a fuel tap that doesn't turn off, managing to put the float back in with a bit missing and I think maybe a dodgy non-ethanol resistant gasket on the carb bowl led to another litre of fuel on the floor. 

I've had to remove the tank and put it outside for now until I can sort out a tap and on the carb, I'm not sure as the internet is full of shitty Chinese rebuild kits but I would prefer something OEM.

[Dave_Q]

Managed to get a carb seal and a regulator but still have no electrics.

I think it could be the stator which is somewhat annoying as I got the bloke who sorted out the gear shaft leak to rewire it for me. 

It was working before it went so I just can't imagine what else it can be now. 

He's a stand up bloke so I'm sure he'll sort it but I'll have to post it down to him again.

All the internets say to measure the AC voltage out of the stator and it should be 20-38v but when I put a meter on it it's all over the place, 60v, -2000, that sort of thing. I'd say it looks like my meter isn't working properly except there clearly isn't any electrons getting where I need them.

[Dave_Q]

The electricity mystery continues.

Popped to screwstation Friday night to get a new multimeter (fuck me I know how to party) and this meter gives me numbers instead of rubbish.

Not great numbers though.

Its upside down because the smartphones and the YouTubes are apparently beyond me now.

Anyway I believe this should be 20+v at idle and up to 35-40 with some revs? I'm getting like 4v at idle and 15-20 only with revving it's tits off.

Safe to say something is wrong but is it definitely the stator? I'm not keen on reloading the parts cannon having already bought a regulator I probably didn't need but I guess it can only be the stator or the flywheel losing magnetisation? And as it runs OK seems unlikely it's the flywheel?

@Dick Longbridge, @Fabergé Greggs you're scooter people, any clues?

Thanks.

[Mr Pastry]

Worth measuring the resistance of the stator if you can find out what it is supposed to be?  

[Dave_Q]

10 minutes ago, Mr Pastry said:

Worth measuring the resistance of the stator if you can find out what it is supposed to be?  

It measures at about 1.6Ohms, I don't know if this is good or not as the service manual I've been able to find doesn't give resiatance and says the voltage has to be tested with a resistance across it? Page 57 of this. https://scooterhelp.com/manuals/pk.service.manual/pk.service.manual.r.pdf

[Dick Cheeseburger]

1 hour ago, Dave_Q said:

The electricity mystery continues.

Popped to screwstation Friday night to get a new multimeter (fuck me I know how to party) and this meter gives me numbers instead of rubbish.

Not great numbers though.

Its upside down because the smartphones and the YouTubes are apparently beyond me now.

Anyway I believe this should be 20+v at idle and up to 35-40 with some revs? I'm getting like 4v at idle and 15-20 only with revving it's tits off.

Safe to say something is wrong but is it definitely the stator? I'm not keen on reloading the parts cannon having already bought a regulator I probably didn't need but I guess it can only be the stator or the flywheel losing magnetisation? And as it runs OK seems unlikely it's the flywheel?

@Dick Longbridge, @Fabergé Greggs you're scooter people, any clues?

Thanks.

I had the stator plate rewound on my old SX150 but that was diagnosed by a local fella. Scooter electrics aren't my forté unfortunately. 

[Fabergé Greggs]

1 hour ago, Dave_Q said:

The electricity mystery continues.

Popped to screwstation Friday night to get a new multimeter (fuck me I know how to party) and this meter gives me numbers instead of rubbish.

Not great numbers though.

Its upside down because the smartphones and the YouTubes are apparently beyond me now.

Anyway I believe this should be 20+v at idle and up to 35-40 with some revs? I'm getting like 4v at idle and 15-20 only with revving it's tits off.

Safe to say something is wrong but is it definitely the stator? I'm not keen on reloading the parts cannon having already bought a regulator I probably didn't need but I guess it can only be the stator or the flywheel losing magnetisation? And as it runs OK seems unlikely it's the flywheel?

@Dick Longbridge, @Fabergé Greggs you're scooter people, any clues?

Thanks.

God sorry I can offer no help other than than to say that the voltage does sound lower than I’d expect and the resistance maybe a bit high? 
 

I think I’ve got an old untested stator somewhere but it’s from a largeframe, I presume they’re different? 
 

Also, was there ever 6v versions of these? 

[Fabergé Greggs]

On 9/18/2023 at 9:40 AM, Dave_Q said:

Well worth a look, much better to ride than you think and small enough to fit in any shed/cellar/house so you don't have to be worried about some scrote having it away all the time.

Also:

Need to trim the cables and for some reason am getting no electrics at all out of my new rewired stator (more likely to be the crusty old bike side wiring loom TBH) but sounding pretty good.

Sounds lovely and runs like a champ! Is it a Polini exhaust? 

[Dave_Q]

15 minutes ago, Fabergé Greggs said:

Sounds lovely and runs like a champ! Is it a Polini exhaust? 

Yeah the exhaust is a Polini "snail" which was recommended by a bloke who builds a lot of smallframe engines. The cylinder is a pro-cup which is thought to be a knock off of an old Quattrini 125 kit and it's still running case inlet on a Mazzuchelli race crank. Still more touring spec I guess than some of the more extreme kit/exhaust combos.

Everything engine wise should be sweet which is why this stator issue now is annoying. 

Yes there were a bewildering array of different electrical systems on PKs and this stator was originally mixed 6/12v with an AC/DC regulator to power the battery and electric start. I only ever wired up the 12v AC side as I don't have the starter motor or battery, nor any space to fit an electric start flywheel with the kit that's on it. The stator was working but with crispy wiring so when the engine went to this bloke to have the gearshift oil leak fixed, I got him to rewire the stator. From what I can tell it looks right, and all the coils are wired in series rather than some being separate. I don't want to question the guys work or come over Dom Littlewood about it but it did work before he touched it.

Anyway I've got a stator in my eBay watch list ending today so may as well load it into the parts cannon and see what happens.

[Dave_Q]

Vespa electricity is sorted. I did get a new wiring loom which got me a few more volts on the meter at the stator, but still no lights. 

Swapped the stator today and we're away. I think there is some sort of witchcraft involved in which it only gives out real electrons under load, but can read voltage (or something), certainly the Vespa service manual tells you to test it with a load/resistor across it.

I think one thing I will take away from this is to try and do things properly first time on the next project. 

The things that have caused me pain in the last couple of weeks, the wiring loom and the leaky fuel tank, are areas where I tried to save money by buying the cheapest second hand part available and I've ended up having to do it again.

[Dick Cheeseburger]

Great you got it up and running. As you say, cutting corners is always going to end up biting you on the arse. I need to get my Lambretta on the road and buy a cheap gopro for some footage. Have you tried the same with your Vespa? 

[Dave_Q]

2 hours ago, Dick Longbridge said:

Great you got it up and running. As you say, cutting corners is always going to end up biting you on the arse. I need to get my Lambretta on the road and buy a cheap gopro for some footage. Have you tried the same with your Vespa? 

Yeah a few pages/years ago I did do a couple of quick videos.

 

 

I recorded those with one of these bullet cams on a velcro strap on my helmet.

https://chilli-tech.com/content/new-bullet-action-camera/

They were about £30 then but inflation etc. 

The sound on those videos is rubbish due to wind noise but I think thats because I had a cap missing off the end of the camera and the microphone was too exposed.

[Dave_Q]

I bought the goop for this ages ago and finally got round to applying it today.

The back window has definitely seen some action before and was leaking through the bottom corner where the previous reglue had come unglued.

I had to make a call between pulling all the old sealant off and making a localised repair. I went for option A as I was hoping to make it look a bit tidier and less saggy.

The hood material is pretty ropey in places.

Expertly masked:

And still mostly made a bollocks of it.

It's better and hopefully watertight but still a bit saggy. It's just not possible to pull the material as taut as it would have been from the factory.

I've also got some hood cleaning and re-sealing juice in the Goods In pile so I'll give it a go over with that. If it can last this winter then I'll probably see about putting a better hood on, hoods don't seem to be mega expensive 2nd hand, probably because it's such a rampaging arseache to fit them.

[Dave_Q]

PRAY 4 MOJO

Made it to an MOT, barely. Something is very unhappy and was down to 10mph at the end. Leaving it with the nice men for now and going home for the van 🤦

[Tickman]

Liked for getting there

[Dave_Q]

It's a fail, hilariously it's the horn and lights i.e all the things I've been dicking around with the last couple of weeks.

I did have the horncast off to reconnect the horn this morning before riding there so probably just knocked something under there. 

On the riding issue, I think I might just need to put a bigger main jet in there at least. I went down from a 102 to a 100 as I've put an air filter on and on paper it should need a smaller jet with an air filter but it definitely felt like a fuel problem. 

I am going to take it somewhere to have them set up the carb properly and put it on a dyno as I don't have the time/energy/knowledge to be dicking about doing it by trial and error. But MOT first.

[Dave_Q]

The MOT man was sound though, it's the nearest place to my house but I've not been before as I normally take them to a place near work. 

On the numberplate he said I need to get a legal one 9x7 made and show it to him, but he's not even bothered about it being attached to the bike at the time. He had a big shelf of spare MOT numberplates that other customers have had made and left with him.