Timing belt roulette...

[stripped fred]

I was mulling over earlier when I should change the timing belt on my Alfa 156. I was told by the previous owner that he changed it about 15k miles ago. Of course this shouldn't be taken as gospel as he didn't keep any paperwork to prove it. However, he also told me that he changed the turbo, alternator, battery, suspension arms and it is evident that he did so I believe him. The belt also looks pretty recent. I've decided to leave it until next year against all advice you would get in the Alfa forum, i.e. a timing belt costs less than a new engine etc etc. It is a risk i am prepared to take. On a car worth less I would probably chance it until the car died.

 

So, this has got me thinking, what is the longest anyone has ever had a timing belt last when they fully expected it to go pop?

[Bren]

AFAIK our 51 plate fiesta is on its original belt.

[RobT]

The ones on my KV6 75 were done 8 years ago and are 45,000 miles in. I'm wondering whether to get them done as its becoming a keeper. The cheapest I can find for the job is £490, which is more than the car is worth obviously. But apart from a few niggles the rest of the car is sound so it makes sense if I'm keeping it long term.

[PiperCub]

Is it a T/S or a V6? The T/S looks (I say 'looks') reasonably straightforward but the V6 is a real whore of a job with no bloody room to do anything - glad the p/owner had done the work on the one I used to have. If it's the former, I'd probably do it for peace of mind, if you are paying someone, it shouldn't be too pricey and is cheaper than an engine as you say. The V6 will be expensive due to the way they packed the motor into the bay.

 

Not to be taken as a recommendation but my 1991 MX5 was on what I strongly suspect was it's original belt until last year when I changed it & all the tensioners/idlers etc too. There was no evidence it'd ever been changed and it had a very full history despite only having done 8000 miles from new (a Jersey Island car until I got it) and to be honest the only fault I found was the idler roller was a tiny bit noisy - a slight 'dry' bearing sound. The belt looked perfect - I still have it! Admittedly, the car had an easy life and if the belt goes on the 1.6 it is non-interference so won't bugger up the valves/pistons but I was still pretty surprised it was OK even if I was happier once I changed it all.

[Spiny Norman]

Is it a T/S or a V6?

 

2.4 diseasel, according to OP's sig.

I don't think the oil burners were included in the OMGTIMINGBELTBOOM! scare that the TS 4 pot Alfa motors had. IIRC the interval for them & the V6 is 72k and they're not so inclined to go ping as the petrol ones.

 

The only car I ever replaced a timing belt on was my 2 litre TS 156, and the only car I ever had snap a belt while driving in 30-odd years was a Mk2 Cavvy which had only done about 20k miles.

I'm sure I'll be told I'm wrong but I think the danger of cambelt failure is vastly over-rated.

[PiperCub]

Ah didn't notice that, OK, I have zero experience of these so withdraw!

 

I'd heard similar stories about the T/S belts - didn't they used to be 72 or 80K which was quickly cut to 36K by AR (for some reason........) but the V6's were supposed to be less of an issue?

 

I too have a similar theory about cambelts, it seems that while they can and do fail, I think they are much better than the early examlples and more resillient to age/wear but service intervals are kept tight to earn money for the garages and to cover the arse of the makers - at least until well out of warranty. From what I've heard and read, belt breakage is more often due to part of the tensioner/idler roller set or the water pump failing/seizing up than an actual failure of the belt itself. Of course, it's all academic as the result is the same.

 

Having said all that, I usually chicken out and change the belt when I buy a car unless there's proof it's been done recently. If it's a keeper, then I do it without question but a hack will be checked and the odds weighed up. In the case of my current hack, a 406 diesel, I did this and reasoned the belt was in excellent conditon and no need to change esp. as it's a bugger of a job. However proving sometimes you just can't win, two weeks later the water pump seals failed and I wound up putting a new belt in anyway whilst replacing said w/pump! Oh well.

[bub2006]

I havemt a clue when the belt was done on the punto. Car cost not a lot and it's non interferenc. I will do it eventually but if it it goes in the meantime it's simple enough to rectify.

[Morgan84]

If Alfa are anything like Fiat, it's probably a 6 year change interval. The Rover V6 will be about 6 years also, but Ford and a few others did give service intervals of around 10 years or 100000 miles. Not always the belts that go, but the pulley wheels can give trouble, so always fit a full kit for peace of mind. Some belts come out looking good as new,but sadly you won't always get a second chance !

I have heard of Renaults snapping belts at 5 years, but we did remove a 28 year old original belt from a Honda Accord, and it still looked reasonable !

[Lord Sterling]

I was playing the cambelt roulette game with all of my Rovers bar the G-reg. Never got any paperwork with it and nor does it have the writing on it so not known when it was done. The G-reg belt was done some years ago but now the engine is borked it doesn't really matter. All the 800s are now laid up so it gives me time if nowt else.

[OwdChina]

Always change the belt on unfamiliar....unknown engine. Cheaper and easier than a re-build.

[PhilA]

Being as rubber is made from recycled chewing gum and old Tesco bags these days, I'd say age is worse than mileage.

 

I've been on the receiving end of cam belt failure a couple times and both it was the idler bearings that let go, causing the belt to fail.

 

Have you done anything to deserve bad ju-ju or possibly hubris (other than buying an Alfa)?

 

Phil

[OwdChina]

Yup.........what PhilA said. Always at least inspect.............closely.

[rainagain]

I changed the belt on my 2.4jtd 10v 156. Access is very very tight. I had to use screw driver bits held in pliers to get the cover bolts off. I got my kit from Eurocarparts, it was marked as being suitable for the 1.9jtd. When I saw this on the kit I emailed them and they assured me it was the right kit, it turned out I couldn't use the replacement idler. So watch out for this. It was more of a struggle getting the aux belt back on than it was the cambelt. As usual the belt I took off looked as good as the new belt, the problem is the fibres inside them break up and you cant see this. There's no locking pins, etc required so its not a too difficult job.

[Timewaster]

When I worked at a factor, late 90s at a guess I spent a day with a gates rep going around garages trying to hawk a tensioning tool.

Every time he saw a 156 in the corner of the workshop he would nod towards it an say "cambelt?" and the garage owner would nod sagely.

 

All petrol though.

That is why they shortened the interval.

 

He did tell me several times that belts don't just break. There is always a mechanical reason.

[cros]

I don't know a big lot about this subject but when my wife had a bike with a timing belt I was appalled to be told that it was advisable to change it at 12000 mile intervals. I read that because it lived close to an air cooled cylinder it got hotter than was ideal. Perhaps this is why some cars break their belts earlier than others.

The 200 and 300 TDI Landrover engines seem more of a pain to do than some belts- I prefer a pushrod myself.

[angle]

My girlfriends dad has just decided he's pushed cambelt roulette as far as he can on his Focus diesel as he wants it to last until he retires. So that's a first belt change at 13 years old and 185k. He was asking me if it was worth paying to get the tensioner done at the same time...

 

Oh, and it got its first oil change for 60k at the same time as well.

[mat_the_cat]

I was mulling over earlier when I should change the timing belt on my Alfa 156.

 

Have you just bought it from eBay? My mate just sold his that way so if it is the same one you can trust him...

[spike60]

As said above 2.4 5pot belts aren't difficult technically, just a bit of a squeeze. They also don't usually snap like 16v petrol ones, my JTD had it's first belt at 95k and a full kit at 170k

[LabRat]

Our 156 1.6 ts is on 73k with a rattling variator, playing roulette until the main school hols in summer. Its had one that i know of in the history, but lack of money and the closest specialist being in Glossop means its going to have to wait!

 

Thank gawd the mondeo is a chain driven v6! My previous 940 was on its original cambelt though at 176k and 20 years old....

[Taff]

my F is 19 years old & came with no paperwork at all and an indicated 68thou on the clock. Given the general state of neglect (although the oil & coolant are both clean) I've booked it in for new belts - 2 on the VVC, there is a second one out the back. The local MG specalist is doing the work (plus a couple of little other jobs) for £175, with me supplying the belts, tensioners etc.

Like was said, cheaper than a new engine plus changing them on the F is like spannering through a manhole cover & I just didn't fancy it.

 

Although there is a little part of me that's thinking its going so well at the moment, why mess with anything....

[theorganist]

I always change the belt unless there is some written evidence as to when it has been changed or requires changing.

 

When I got the Princess I had the cambelt changed before I even attempted to start the engine.

 

Surely it is better to be safe than sorry!

[mrcitroen]

I have the later 210 hp 20v 2.4 in my 159. The official Alfa recommendation is 100k / 10 years for the belt. Most specialists / indies say every 5 years. It's the water pump that shits the bed and causes the issues on these. If the belt does break, the rockers are designed to snap.

 

My BX gets done every 3 years and only takes me a couple of hours. Currently playing roulette with the GS, the belt WAS done a year before I got it. On my recommissioning to do list.

[spike60]

Our 156 1.6 ts is on 73k with a rattling variator, playing roulette until the main school hols in summer. Its had one that i know of in the history, but lack of money and the closest specialist being in Glossop means its going to have to wait!

 

Thank gawd the mondeo is a chain driven v6! My previous 940 was on its original cambelt though at 176k and 20 years old....

Unless you're happy to scrap the car I wouldn't advise cambelt roulette on a TS, it will win. Ebay used to be chock full of Spares or Repair Alfa Twin Sparks with broken belts but can't be that many left now. It's quite an expensive job before it breaks, more so after.

[cms206]

I don't think I've ever done a cambelt on anything. The 340 thankfully has a timing chain and the big Volvos are all 2.3 8v so non-interference.

[drum]

In my first 20 or so years of cars I never changed a timing belt, but because Internet, I have had them changed on my two new* cars. One was an alfa with 1.9 jtd which according to Internet will go to hell in a handbasket if it has a water pump with plastic bits instead of metal ones.

The other was a £600 a4 tdi with no service history and 200k miles which I was taking ma famille to the south of France in the following week.

 

I have had one belt breakage, in '97 in my Bedford CF camper (converted minibus) which was fixed for £25.

[stripped fred]

Just caught up with this, yes mine is the 2.4jtd 20v engine. I think the recommended interval is 72k or 4 years but most people would say to do it sooner. As has been mentioned it's often the water pump that goes first I think.

 

I've never changed a timing belt and I would be prepared to give it a go but I don't think this is one of the easiest. The engine completely fills the engine bay so access is poor. The thing is that as well as the belt and tensioners the water pump also needs changing and then it only gets to 75 on the temp gauge so I would do the thermostat too. Before you know it that's a bill for £700+. The cars worth say £1600 so worth doing but it depends on whether it's a long term keeper or not and as I said it may have been done recently anyway although I bet he didn't do the water pump...

[stripped fred]

In terms of breakages previously I've only had one go on a 1.4 BX and after the garage put a new belt on it was fine. There is a lot of fear about cambelts going I think and it keeps the dealer service bays busy!

[Sigmund Fraud]

Cambelts are far stronger than people think... Mrs.F's VW was still running the factory belt when we bought it at 18 years/95k miles ! The belt was cracked to fuck and the tensioner bearing had all the smoothness of a badger's arse, but it still didn't break.

 

Cambelt changes can be frustrating and time-consuming, but are definitely not rocket science. I reckon they're well within the abilities of the average 'shitter with a basic toolkit and a weekend to spare.

[beko1987]

I've never changed a cambelt and have never lost yet!

 

206 - Fuck knows what that had done to it

Puma - Original belt at 120k, was probably one of the only things on that that worked very well

First ZX - Original belt at 56k/P reg, probably still the case now, I do see it from time to time

XM - No idea tbh

Current ZX - Changed at about 240k/2 years ago according to the sticker in the bay, given the condition of the other bits that have been changed in the past I beleive that

Meriva - Still on the original at 83k, I do want to change it, only to get a water pump and oil pump wanged on and change the pulleys as I think that may sort out its running cool issues... CBA though so at the minute it's on with the roulette! Am tempted to have a go myself but it's about £160 for all the parts and locking tool, and it seems an involved job, so might farm it out if it comes to it...

[spike60]

I've had 2 snap on me, a Transit Di with 11k on it had a bolt come out of somewhere and go into it and a 244 Volvo seized on the cam 27 miles after I bought it. I work with an engine builder who paid his mortgage off early with the proceeds from cam belt neglect, personally I change 'em just before due or if unknown.