A tragic day

[alf892]

Equally dangerous I suspect are the really good drivers, full of pride in their ability and their well maintained old vehicles who would rather die than give way to the VAG driver.............

 

Obviously we are all ok.........it's the others.

 

I just like to keep out the way of people more important than me..........important people are dangerous whether the importance is real or in their imagination.

[richardmorris]

No one is more important, they just think they are because their car costs more. The problem is that they are so keyed up on being better than everyone else that forget to look where they are going and drive according to the conditions.

[Cavcraft]

..and the modern safety features makes them think they're invincible, especially in BFO 4x4s etc.

 

I do think sometimes you can look for trouble on the roads, and it's easily done. Driving when you're in a rush or a nark is never a good thing and I swear from some complaints I've heard from the same people over and over that they must go looking for idiots.

I do it sometimes if I'm ina  nark, then getting yourself wound up over some knob further ahead/behind/going the other way becomes a massive deal. It's actually far better (where possible) to just move over or whatever and let these cockwands get on with it, they can go and annoy someone else, they'll be out of your way quite quickly as it goes.

I'm not, sadly, the best at maintaining this, but it really makes for a far easier life if you apply it and I keep telling my lad to do as I say, not as I do and to let people get in front if they want, leave a safe distance etc.

[Minimad5]

Motorway driving (and A roads) should be a compulsory part of the driving test.

[Pete-M]

The most dangerous thing on the motorways is the people who don't know how to use them crawling along in the wrong lane at the wrong speed completely oblivious to the chaos they're causing. Added knobhead points for those who brake test people.

 

Motorways are generally the safest roads to be on. Yes, there are some idiots out there but as a rule they're easier to spot.

 

Lots of Europe doesn't have any hard shoulder at all yet their motorway networks aren't as bad as ours.

 

If we raised the limit to 120 mph and banned those who don't follow the correct lane discipline - first offence 25 year ban with no appeal, motorways would work just fine.

[purplebargeken]

3 mornings running, accident around J25/M25. FFS people, wake up and stop driving like penises. Foreign lorry drivers...... pay more attention, this is not your home country. It's all very sad when folk die but stupidity surely has a hefty part to play does it not?

[vulgalour]

Motorway driving (and A roads) should be a compulsory part of the driving test.

You haven't thought this through. Can you imagine how actually terrifying it would be for both learner and other road users for a learner to be on the motorway?

[Junkman]

It is compulsory in Germany. Following your logic, I wonder why they don't die like flies.

[scruff]

You haven't thought this through. Can you imagine how actually terrifying it would be for both learner and other road users for a learner to be on the motorway?

 

No more terrifying (less?) than a new passer with no instructor with them.

[vulgalour]

touché

[Louise2cv]

What is "brake testing people"?

[MrDuke]

Dabbing the brakes because the car behind appears to be too close. Half the time it (probably) works, maybe.

[Louise2cv]

Oh people reacting to tailgating.

 

Two wrongs.

[richardmorris]

From what people do, brake testing is more like stamping on the brakes. Hard. And hoping the vehicle behind isn't a 3 ton discovery with the stopping distance of the qe2. There are idiots everywhere, sadly many of them are lucky.

[Albert Ross]

On the day I passed my test in Slough, I drove my Mother into Hammersmith, to her office, and then I drove directly to Bristol on the M4. Then returned to Slough for a bite to eat. Back to Bristol again on the M4, and then into Hammersmith to collect my Mother. All in a 1979 Volvo 343. Sure, it cost me fuel, but it taught me rather a lot. This was January 18th, 1984, and it had snowed that morning. I have driven many hundreds of thousands of miles across this country since that day, and can honestly say that modern driving standards are far worse than 30 years ago. Cars are more capable, but drivers appear to be dumber. Nobody remembers how to do "Roadcraft" any more.

[dollywobbler]

Braking on the motorway should be illegal. It's one point me and Clarkson agree on. If you need to brake, either some serious shit is going wrong right in front of you (rare) or you just haven't been paying attention. Then this starts the brake-light knock-on effect so within minutes, free-flowing traffic has been reduced to a crawl for absolutely no bloody reason at all other than someone's idiocy. And it hasn't affected them. 

 

I'm not sure it's right to blame foreign truckers either. They're driving a bloody huge vehicle with blind spots the size of Birmingham. There's a far higher chance that you can see the truck than the driver can see you, so always give plenty of room and expect it to try and drive into you at any moment. I almost got wiped out in the 2CV by a foreign trucker, who suddenly swerved across my lane. I'd already driven over 400 miles that day and was quite knackered, so was forced into a fairly scary swerve-and-brake. If I'd been paying more attention, I would have been very wary about the truck and might have been able to respond in a slightly less scary manner. Mind you, at the time, I was chuffed that I managed to avoid an accident. Driving over 600 miles in one day in a 2CV is not sensible. 

[Volksy]

Braking on the motorway should be illegal. It's one point me and Clarkson agree on. If you need to brake, either some serious shit is going wrong right in front of you (rare) or you just haven't been paying attention. Then this starts the brake-light knock-on effect so within minutes, free-flowing traffic has been reduced to a crawl for absolutely no bloody reason at all other than someone's idiocy. And it hasn't affected them. 

Some manufacturers are making it so that the brake lights come on when you suddenly lift off the accelerator. Tesla is one that I know of, I think the new gen S class does too. 

[Pete-M]

I think it was Alain Prost used to say that how you come off the brakes and throttle is as important as how you go on them. Even if it wasn't him, I find it makes for more enjoyable driving.

 

If you have to brake, you've got motorways all wrong.

[richardmorris]

A colleague of mine in the rsc group of which I'm chair was telling us on Tuesday how he got side swiped by a Spanish lorry on the motorway in his jag xf. ( yes I'm chair with a 20 yr old merc, and he isn't with 10 month old jag -go figure!). Lorry came up the slip road and merged into a non-existent space. He's recorded the driver admitting responsibility on his iPhone, jag drivable but a little dented.

[captain_70s]

Such sad news on both accounts.

 

A while back I was heading down the dual carriageway just south of Aberdeen in thick fog just after sunset.

 

It was terrifying. People flying past at 90mph like it was a clear day and me having to pass people who were doing 25mph because I didn't want to have an Audi embed itself up my arse doing the ton. I think driving an older car gives you a different impression of road safety, you are more in contact with the road and your surroundings, you have to be.

 

In my '12 Corsa doing 120mph felt no different to 60mph, it gave false confidence. I never got the impression I was anywhere near the limits of traction when cornering until I span the bastard 180 degrees out of nowhere... Somebody one the Dolomite forum once told me "things will get scary long before they get dangerous" when I was asking about the cars before buying one, he was right. Since driving the Triumphs I drive slower across the board, I pay more attention, camber on the roads, the effects of crosswinds, what if mid way around this corner I hit a puddle*? What if the guy in front slows down midway around it? etc.

 

I was in my Corsa driving through that fog, I had the luxury of a rear fog light so slowing down was relatively safe. In the Dolomite with it's candle-like rear lights I'd be faced with a dilemma, slow down and risk being unseen when a speeding rep-mobile is bearing down on me or keep speed and risk smacking into the next poor fucker who either doesn't have fog lights or the sense to turn them on? Common sense is thoroughly lacking on today's roads...

 

 

*Obviously the car will dissolve into iron oxide and I'll have to walk home.

 

 

[richardmorris]

I think that being totally isolated from the actual act of driving is certainly an issue. I drove back along the a55 in very heavy snow in 1994 in the 2cv using the cats eyes ( driving over them for guidance, not seeing them). Not fun, but I passed lots of newer cars who were failing to proceed.

[dollywobbler]

A colleague of mine in the rsc group of which I'm chair was telling us on Tuesday how he got side swiped by a Spanish lorry on the motorway in his jag xf. ( yes I'm chair with a 20 yr old merc, and he isn't with 10 month old jag -go figure!). Lorry came up the slip road and merged into a non-existent space. He's recorded the driver admitting responsibility on his iPhone, jag drivable but a little dented.

 

One could argue that it's a VERY good idea to move over or be prepared to brake when approaching merging traffic. Sadly, some people now seem to assume that joining traffic has right of way! Even so, doesn't take much detective work to identify a foreign truck, then realise you're sat smack in his blind spot. I absolutely HATE being in the blind spot of trucks, and having driven one (albeit off the highway) I know just how enormous they are, even when RHD.

[richardmorris]

One could argue that it's a VERY good idea to move over or be prepared to brake when approaching merging traffic. Sadly, some people now seem to assume that joining traffic has right of way! Even so, doesn't take much detective work to identify a foreign truck, then realise you're sat smack in his blind spot. I absolutely HATE being in the blind spot of trucks, and having driven one (albeit off the highway) I know just how enormous they are, even when RHD.

Indeed. I wasn't entirely on his side, but he wasn't particularly annoyed about it. He does 40k miles a year and apparently it's his first accident since hitting a lamp post lying across the m40 in his rover 75 10 years ago. As miles per accident go, it's probably not bad.

[Pillock]

We can't blame all foreign truckers, but having nearly been taken out three times in a week by them being in the wrong lane until the last minute, it's hard not to. Perhaps foreign soil, language barrier on signs, blind spots all contribute. One of my colleagues was merged into by a Romanian trucker who admittedly stopped, but recognised the word "police" and just drove off. Police then didn't even bother attending.

[Pillock]

And +100 on the "shouldn't need to brake". You know when there's standstill traffic, and then it clears and there's nothing to show for the delay? That's the end result of someone dabbing the brakes half an hour ago, and everyone being too close together.

[Andrew353w]

On the day I passed my test in Slough, I drove my Mother into Hammersmith, to her office, and then I drove directly to Bristol on the M4. Then returned to Slough for a bite to eat. Back to Bristol again on the M4, and then into Hammersmith to collect my Mother. All in a 1979 Volvo 343. Sure, it cost me fuel, but it taught me rather a lot. This was January 18th, 1984, and it had snowed that morning. I have driven many hundreds of thousands of miles across this country since that day, and can honestly say that modern driving standards are far worse than 30 years ago. Cars are more capable, but drivers appear to be dumber. Nobody remembers how to do "Roadcraft" any more.

I passed when hand signals were still part of the test-and it rained on the day I took it! No sympathy from the examiner, I just got wet! I think driving felt more "real" then and maybe our modern (or not so modern!) euroboxes just make the journey not an experience any more. I still enjoy my drive to work & try to put into practice all I learnt all those years ago when I did my advanced test, but I realise that most people treat driving as a means to an end now. Let's hope the end's not fatal.....

[twitcherman]

For me, the most mystifying thing about bad driving is this:

 

Everybody's seen a lot of it, but apparently nobody's done any of it.

[MrDuke]

Don't even get me started on "insulated driving". It's bad enough driving a modern when you're used to older tin and can vaguely guess at what might happen - the really scary thing is that there are now a huge number of drivers who have never, ever driven a car that lets you read the surface and warns you of its limits.

[Inspector Morose]

About ten years ago I wrote a dissertation on what I called then the 'volvoisation' of driving where the more safe and insulated the driver feels, the lower the standards of driving will become.

It's coming true.

[dollywobbler]

Twitcherman - I've admitted to at least two bits of dodgy driving just in this thread. Three arguably. I do think more people should hold their hands up and admit they were in the wrong though.