Shiter's hybrid fix

[JohnDeere]

Quoted $4400 to fix the batteries on his Camry hybrid, this shiter fixed it himself with a bottle of vinegar...

 

http://m.imgur.com/gallery/j8Bcp/

[dollywobbler]

Quoted $4400 to fix the batteries on his Camry hybrid, this shiter fixed it himself with a bottle of vinegar...

 

http://m.imgur.com/gallery/j8Bcp/

 

That's just brilliant. So brilliant I have shamelessly stolen it to help it on its travels across the internet. I really want a hybrid. 

[Jim Bell]

Winning.

[beko1987]

That's brilliant! Just take it apart, clean it and reassemble...

[red5]

Slightly more involved, but yep - cleaned corroded contacts/replace a pack (usually two cells) and re-assemble.

 

Seriously though, do not touch anything unless you've been trained. 100amp+ capacitors in there....ouch....

[320touring]

I've seen chaps strip insight batteres down and slow charge/swap individual cells to balance pairs.

 

Can bring the packs to life fairly simply with logic and testing.

[wuvvum]

Are the cells easy to get hold of singly then?

[xtriple]

Interesting..... Mines under warranty for another five years but still worth knowing. Don't even know where my battery pack is other than in the back somewhere. There was a time (not so long ago) when the first thing I would have done would have been to strip it to have a look.

 

I still like my hybrid,when it's fully charged (often) it's like a proper little rocket ship (slight exaggeration!) when you put your foot down and the electric and petrol engines work together it goes surprisingly well - feels much bigger than 1400cc.

 

Still wonder if I should have got a Prius, but I prefer the styling of the Honda, plus, it's a Honda!

 

Sorry for my usual rambling drivel!

[gordonbennet]

Oh yes like that, win...but do i feel lucky/knowledgeable enough to do this meself, i dunno.

 

Did i see it here, or somewhere else, where some geezer has set himself up overhauling Honda hybrid battery packs, the only one in the country?

 

There must be a market for someone to specialise in Toyotas too, whilst they do appear to have a very long battery life, i suppose if the batteries gradually deteriorate you just end up eventually driving a 1500 or 1800cc (or 3500ish  if you get a Lexus 450h) petrol automatic as time goes by as the batteries dwindle to bugger all for whatever reason.

[Parky]

Love it, absolutely love it!

 

Particularly like how he refers to the copper bars as "those buggers" - nice to see we have exported a profanity to the US.

 

Fingers crossed Feck and Arse Biscuits make an appearance soon

[twitcherman]

Toyota main battery pack failure is rare in Europe. More common in US - they sold a lot more hybrids there, and the higher ambient temperatures lead to a higher failure rate.

 

Opinions on the Prius specialist forums (e.g. Priuschat) are moving away from reconditioning packs, even with proper rebalancing (which isn't a quick job). Replacing failed cells can be done, BUT is often followed by failure of other cells after a few months, meaning the whole tedious process has to be done again ("whack-a-mole" syndrome). This seems to be the case even with professionally-reconditioned batteries.

 

The situation is further complicated by Toyota's pricing policies in different markets - to buy new, the Prius is about half the price in the US as the UK, however replacement hybrid batteries are twice as expensive in the US! UK price for a brand-new pack is about £800, which doesn't make a recon pack at £650 look very attractive (I appreciate Shiters would expect 3 whole cars for this kind of money).

 

Driving a Prius with a failing hybrid pack is a bit pointless - performance and economy both go to cock. You also lose reverse gear, as reverse is electric-power only. A car with complete battery failure won't go at all, as the HV battery is needed to start the internal combustion engine.

 

These videos are helpful in understanding the system, if you have the time:

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZmHpSyTsfm0&list=PLIn3FrDiB1lxzthcUMZQOoJi3PNAlVYa6&index=9

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UxuqHcUbSQ0&index=10&list=PLIn3FrDiB1lxzthcUMZQOoJi3PNAlVYa6

[garethj]

Sometimes we think things are very complicated; it's got ECUs controlling precision-matched batteries with all kinds of current and voltage sensors.  However the problem is familar to anyone that's pulled apart an old Lucas switch, the contacts are corroded to fuck.  Therefore the fix is no more complicated than you'd do on a 1975 Mini.

 

I guess it's something similar with older cars, you might think that the ECU has gone in your 1995 car but actually it's just the contacts in the connector that have worn.  The fix is familair to anyone that's had the brake light go dim-bright-dim when they put the indicator on.

[Pillock]

I've read some interesting stuff on the Hybrids and how they maximise the use of the tech. Apparently if you boot it off the line, the leccy motors give you instant go, and the petrol kicks in a second later. Because why wouldn't you want your family hatchback to have the best acceleration it can? It's like stop-start on my Astra without the annoying delay.

 

I sort of want one. But I know I'll but a cheap, knackered one and it'll ruin me.

[Richard]

Somebody brought a 14 plate Leaf into my friend's back street garage last week and asked him to look at the brakes. Apparently electric car brakes are prone to seizing with underuse because most of the braking is regenerative.

[brickwall]

People, please, please, please read up on this before tackling it yourself. It's really straight forward but you can get killed if you don't know what you are doing.

[Richard]

I got a 110V DC shock in one arm and out the other once, I felt it going through my heart. I was a bit more careful to only use one hand at a time after that.

[Pillock]

A lot of the engineers I train, who work on live 230v, are great believers in keeping a hand in their pocket.

[Timewaster]

I got a 110V DC shock in one arm and out the other once, I felt it going through my heart. I was a bit more careful to only use one hand at a time after that.

If this story is true then you are BLOODY lucky to be alive.

30 milliamps across the heart is enough to kill you.

[Pillock]

Voltage is not the same as current. And it's neither that kill you, it's the amount of energy in reserve - 30mA won't be fatal if for a tiny fraction of a second, that's why an RCD trips out in 30ms or less. The amount of energy delivered is the nasty bit.

 

Given the amount of energy in reserve on this battery pack is huge - enough to propel a car for miles - then yeah, it has the potential to be pretty nasty.

[spike60]

Aside from the battery pack biting you on the arse financially or dragging you to your knees if you try to bodge it hybrids don't seem offer much in way of economy versus a diesel. The lady friend has a Toyota Yaris hybrid, August 2014 new, which is slightly less economical and a lump slower than my 2000 Polo 1.4 Tdi in the same mainly urban use, she has used both recently so can directly compare.  Emissions seem to the only strong point, at £17500 list price for a Yaris hybrid you'll have to like Polar bears a lot to get your hand down for one.

 

Edit.

Toyota does about 51mpg according to dashboard thingy, Polo about 53/55mpg according to old fashioned fag packet maths...

[Pillock]

When they start mega-taxing diesels I think there will be a big shift to hybrid. They don't offer much on long journeys - a 1.5 petrol idling will use fuel like a 1.6 TD in 6th at 60mph does. Round town, within electric range, the hybrid will be much cheaper surely?

[Timewaster]

Voltage is not the same as current. And it's neither that kill you, it's the amount of energy in reserve - 30mA won't be fatal if for a tiny fraction of a second, that's why an RCD trips out in 30ms or less. The amount of energy delivered is the nasty bit.

 

I never said anything about voltage.

Without starting a long winded Internet debate about electrical theory let's leave it at Be bloody careful!

[Inspector Morose]

'leccy hurts.

(One time player with 600VDC with up to 3000A available at any one time)

[spike60]

The use for the one I wrote about was urban use for an Estate Agent valuer around Clevelands main built up area plus personal use, it rarely does anything longer. Its a company car so I've not driven it but the engine kicks in as soon as she goes on the throttle, it's very slow in leccy alone.

[xtriple]

The thing with the diesel/hybrid economy thing is: what use it gets. Yes, a diesel will do the same mpg  or better than a ev but town use will kill it. I think hybrids make sense to someone , well, like me! Short journeys, lots of cold starts and the dpf will be complaining in weeks.

 

My Honda gets used (predominantly) for 2 mile journeys (what a bloody waste!) and it's still doing about 50 to the gallon. If I use it for a more sensible distance (rare) it's soon up to or close to 60MPG.

 

Mind you, if you boot it, which is surprisingly fun to do, then it drops to 40... which is still bloody good.

 

I have never, in my life, been interested in fuel consumption but new(ish) petrol autos with warranties etc are surprisingly rare. Down here, everything is a manual diesel and while I didn't set out to look for a ev the scarcity of the above made me look. I now feel that I'm doing my bit for the environment so I can get a gas guzzling heap with a clear conscience!

[forddeliveryboy]

Is this thread a love-in for leccy hybrids? I'm here to spoil the party! There's only one which I excuse, because of its purity and beauty of design - the original Insight.

 

Half the time, hybrids are bought for image purposes. Loads more are bought to be used as a tax break (think massive 4x4 to use in London). Designing a car to be a tax break isn't likely to result in the best engineering. Having two different sorts of engines on board is daft, surely? The extra oomph to boost acceleration wouldn't be necessary if cars were lighter (electric motors and batteries are blooming heavy things), but extra mass makes cars feel higher quality for mimimal design and build costs.

 

Recovering braking energy with a ICE/battery hybrid is over 75% INefficient. You can improve this poor figure by around three times with a hydraulic hybrid system for larger cars and commercial vehicles, without the use of heavy electric motors and batteries. The equivalent of the battery bank weighs very little, the motors are five or six times lighter.- Bosch and PSA are developing a system for non-commercial vehicles. But the fashion is with electronics and electric power,  it will be difficult to shift the public's view just when it has started to embrace the culture of electric power, with the promise of 'zero emissions' and the ability to use renewable sources.

 

For range-extending a vehicle powered by an electric motor, why not have easy slot-in battery packs which can be changed in 5 minutes at filling stations?

 

My parents' Octavia estate will return well over 60mpg on a run if you stay under 80mph and drive with a view to economy. If you accelerate hard all the time, overtake up long hills and so on, this figure drops to 55mpg. In town you've a job to see less than 50. This is a car which can carry 4 passengers, a huge load and tow a biggish trailer. It will cruise through Germany at 120mph - and I'd say it's a 'greener' car in every respect.

[Timewaster]

FDB I thought it was a love in for fixing a $4000 fault for $10 and up yours main dealers and your undiyable tech.

[red5]

People, please, please, please read up on this before tackling it yourself. It's really straight forward but you can get killed if you don't know what you are doing.

 Will, not can. it's that easy to get it wrong.

 

Have stripped both systems after extensive training, and still brick it.... ..it's not the battery repair/replace/rebuild, it's the precautions you must take that catch people out.

 

Of the competing technologies I like the Honda - failsafe, familiar and does a job well. modular type build means for potential easy upgrade/swap as well. Toyota is amazing tech, but Duff/flat battery = no go/uplift recovery only.

[garethj]

Is it the same as an old 9V battery for your transistor radio - you can tell if it's live by putting your tongue across the terminals?

[Inspector Morose]

Yes. Once.