Citroen XM - was JohnK's steed

[forddeliveryboy]

My XM was caught out by shit road surfaces, the kind where the top cm is missing in random points all over the road. General road undulations, big dips, speedbumps at speed etc were fine, just ruined road surfaces/potholes ruined the ride.

 

You'd be amazed the difference the older style damper shape makes to the ride. You can improve out the cheaper design to make some difference, but turbulence/stiction in small amounts of movement still persists much more. Add the incredibly taut springing and damping when the centre spheres are cut out (as well as less absorbent tyre sidewalls) and a jittery ride on imperfect surfaces is all but guaranteed, even without the suspension layout and execution owing more to a VW than a Citroën.

 

 

now replaced with this piece of crap 

[beko1987]

My centre sphere was knackered I think, although the accumulator tested ok.

 

It was still much better than anything I've had before or after it though, took me ages to stop missing it in the lowered, rattly tired ZX I have now!

 

No idea what style spheres it had tbh, although I imagine the latter ones

[dollywobbler]

Brakes were bled a while back. I'll be doing that again and possibly putting Hydraflush in (seeing as I've had a bottle of it sitting around for years) with a filter clean etc, etc. That's all part of my brake overhaul that I can't do because only Citroen have the brake bits I need. And they seem to be in the 'ramp up prices so we can just bin all of our stock as unwanted' stage. I don't think it'll be all that many years until running an XM as daily transport just becomes impossible. I'll enjoy it while I can!

[beko1987]

Just buy 2 or 3 of everything now whilst you still can

 

It's what I do with Hoover Turbopower 1 parts at the moment...anyone need a set of bellows or brushroll end caps?

[Junkman]

So a year on you still have your XM, whereas I have replaced my 405 with a 405.

[dugong]

So a year on you still have your XM, whereas I have replaced my 405 with a 405.

Some kind of record?

 

The three XMs my uncle owned broke him financially and mentally. He had a BX that did stuff the suspension apologists say is impossible.

[Lacquer Peel]

What did the BX do that was 'impossible'?

[montytom]

Love the XM was always a foreign entity when I was growing up on the Isle of Wight. Seen a couple over here and would love one in the future

[dollywobbler]

Sorry for the repetition, as I've already posted this in the News thread, but I bloody love this car!

 

Today was the first time I'd tackled some properly uneven terrain - some folk may have encountered it on the way to Shitefest: the Elan Valley mountain road. This was exactly the sort of road this suspension was designed to flatten out and it really is staggering. I almost started to feel queasy because I'd brace myself for a bump, and then nothing happened. Most disorientating! 

 

But I also reflected on why it is I like this car so much. One is the handling - it just belies its size by turning in like a sports car. Sure, it always feels front heavy, but it also just sails around bends with no drama at all. Two is the ride, especially now it's superb again. Before, it was merely ok. Three is the engine. It will just about pull off-boost in a way modern turbo diesels just don't, and the turbo comes in nice and smoothly from 1500rpm. I tend to change up at 2500rpm, even going uphill. Super relaxing. Four is the driving position. It's absolutely spot on for me, and I ADORE the low scuttle. It's what I've always liked about Hondas of a similar era, and the Rovers that shared development with them. Too many cars seem to have the bottom of the windscreen level with my chin. Or that's what it feels like. The Volvo 850 and Rover 75 are very much of this high-scuttle class. I don't like it. As the scuttle is low, so is the waistline. That's definitely not a modern car trend.

 

Five, styling. I still think it looks like a Bertone concept car of the 1980s and I love it for that. Six seems an agreeable number of plus points, so I'll use that for practicality. Self-levelling suspension, a huge boot, a tow bar, luxurious amounts of space for (ok only two) rear passengers. (third one sits on a raised bit and that doesn't seem so comfy). 

 

Downsides, yes, there are some. French electrics (central locking was playing up again today), heavy clutch (still!) and it doesn't sound as nice as a V6.

 

TL;DR - SHOCK AS DOLLYWOBBLER STILL LOVES CAR AFTER 14 MONTHS

[Skizzer]

I might need to get XMs out of my system in 2016.  I absolutely loved the shape when they were new.  Nice early 2.0i in grey or gold would be perfect.

[320touring]

it needs more boost;) but was otherwise a spot on place to be when I drove it at shitefest:)

 

can only imagine how the suspension is with the new sphere. Hoping to get my CX to tip top ride quality soon!

[outlaw118]

They are a proper thing, last of the "real" Citroens - C6 has certain points of DNA, but it's just not as revolutionary looking as this was...does that make sense?

[320touring]

They are a proper thing, last of the "real" Citroens - C6 has certain points of DNA, but it's just not as revolutionary looking as this was...does that make sense?

you mean they left the "green" out the Gauloises..in both senses of the word?

[dollywobbler]

They are a proper thing, last of the "real" Citroens - C6 has certain points of DNA, but it's just not as revolutionary looking as this was...does that make sense?

 

Totally. To be honest, I thought the C6 was almost entirely dull when it first came out. They've grown on me, but the nose is still a bit anonymous. The arse is pretty tidy though. Lots of lovely detail.

[chaseracer]

The three XMs my uncle owned broke him financially and mentally. He had a BX that did stuff the suspension apologists say is impossible.

 

Nobody says hydro suspension problems are impossible, Jon - just not catastrophically inevitable...

[Lacquer Peel]

Great stuff, I miss the plush ride of my Xantias. They both suffered fluid leaks, but not major. The 1.9D lost nearly all of its LHM through a rusty sphere but it was still safe to drive for the 30 miles home. A bit bouncy with stiff steering but the brakes still worked, it's a pretty fail-safe system.

 

Does Hydractive make a big difference? My Xantias were low-spec models without Hydractive and handled well.

[dollywobbler]

Hard for me to judge. Certainly, the XM behaves as tidily as the much-lighter BX, but then it's got some seriously beefy anti-roll bars. As a matter of interest, the neighbour's 260,000-mile Disco II has just had its ACE suspension removed (and non-ACE kit fitted). He says he can't notice any difference at all - which I guess is why such systems have been phased out. 

 

Must be possible to deactivate Hydractive, so it's always in soft mode. Only way to really test it would be to conduct slalom tests and see whether it's the computer controlled suspension saving the day or just that the suspension is well designed even without the trickery.

[purplebargeken]

Have never owned a Citroen, but the XM looks wonderful. Such a lovely sleek shape.

[Lukas]

I feel the need to own an XM in the future now. Maybe in 2016, depends on how I get along with the Buick and if the old cowboy behaves well. 

 

An XM V6 would be a great gentleman-car. Or maybe on old Diesel as long as you are allowed to drive them on the road? We´ll see. 

 

Keep us updated how you get along with the Xm, I really like it! 

[forddeliveryboy]

Does Hydractive make a big difference? My Xantias were low-spec models without Hydractive and handled well.

 

Yes, although it's clear when you look at how it works that it's very much like Windows upgrades instead of having a decent operating system to begin with, except of course it's grafted over a superb original OS. It was designed to allow conventional cars with VW-style suspension layouts to ride and handle as if the underpinnings were semi-exotic. Way cheaper to do this than make cars like CXs, although of course you can't pretend as easily to be a premium brand. Still, VW has managed it.

 

Had Citroën been where they were in the 50s in the 80s, they'd have come up with something similar to that art lecturer in Western Oz did - which McLaren and Toyota now use. It's both simple and clever, inspired by the Citroën original but designed for 21st century conditions. PSA themselves used the tech to allow multiple WRC wins through the 90s, before it was outlawed as being too good. Peugeot works rally cars are still fitted with DIRAVI.

 

You've just got to be driving pretty fast to begin to appreciate what hyperactive's capable of, but its amazing comfort when driving steadily only highlights its weak points if you encounter certain combinations of road knackered-ness. The Dutch 'comfort spheres' are sold to try and recreate a CX's fluidity and road-absorbing abilities, but they rely mainly on reducing the damping, which means the stiff mode cuts in sooner.

[forddeliveryboy]

But the original is simple and long-lived, works superbly and is much more easily tweaked. Run with 70 or 80-profile tyres, Total fluid rather than the dishwater-like alternatives, bevelled damper holes (diy with a drill bit) for a smoother ride over sharp edges and I'd choose it anyday over the electronic update. Plus you'll always know how the suspension will react.

 

The cynic in me would say Hydractive was conceived so as not to frighten school-run Mums and metrosexual males who would see heel through a roundabout as something deeply unfashionable (and would be secretly scared shitless) - the sort of person who'd assume a screwdriver was something you'd download onto a laptop for a VR sex app.

[dugong]

What did the BX do that was 'impossible'?

I never said it was impossible, they (by whom I mean social media fans and a couple of specialists) did.

 

The ring main depressurised and he lost the brakes, steering power assistance and the suspension in traffic.

Something similar happened to Junkman in a CX - albeit at 120mph on the autobahn.

 

They're isolated incidents but far from the 'impossible state of affairs' some of the more vocal Citroen fans insist upon. They're adamant the car was neglected but then quickly changed their argument when I said 'so it is possible, then?' At the time, the car had about 10,000 miles on the clock and was a long way from being a dog. Quite the opposite, in fact.

 

This may be what started my dislike of HP Citroens. Wouldn't kick a CX or GS out of bed, though. Can't say selling the latter was particularly pleasant, for a variety of reasons.

 

Were I to get another, I'd keep it to myself.

 

And I've veered off topic.

 

DW's XM works. This is a good thing.

[dollywobbler]

Nothing is impossible, but I'm struggling to think what could cause such a catastrophic and sudden loss of pressure. The steering is the first to go (and it's just an assisted 'conventional' system in a BX/UK XM) but that just means it suddenly gets heavy and is a sign you need to think about finding a safe place to stop. Stored pressure in the accumulator (not linked to the steering) should mean you can still stop.

 

The CX of Junkman's entertainment has a very different steering set up. I can see how that would be very scary if it went wrong, or even if the speed sensor goes haywire so you suddenly get parking speed assistance with a super-sensitive ratio at high speed. Alarming.

[dugong]

Nothing is impossible, but I'm struggling to think what could cause such a catastrophic and sudden loss of pressure. The steering is the first to go (and it's just an assisted 'conventional' system in a BX/UK XM) but that just means it suddenly gets heavy and is a sign you need to think about finding a safe place to stop. Stored pressure in the accumulator (not linked to the steering) should mean you can still stop.

 

The CX of Junkman's entertainment has a very different steering set up. I can see how that would be very scary if it went wrong, or even if the speed sensor goes haywire so you suddenly get parking speed assistance with a super-sensitive ratio at high speed. Alarming.

Aye, imagine being eight years old and stuck in the back on the Mancunian Way. Definitely a freak occurence - he noticed the brakes first because he wasn't doing much steering. Then we exited a junction and the fun and games started.

[dollywobbler]

The parking brake just scraped a pass last year, and proved its hopelessness by allowing the XM to bump into Garycox's 405 at Shitefest. The embarrassment...

 

So, with less than a month until the next MOT, I thought I should probably do something about it. I'd hoped that new discs and pads might help, but the mechanism itself seems hopeless. I opened it up today...

 

Looks like it has been bathing in the fuggin sea. In the middle is a bit that should move back and forward. This seems to be entirely seized in place. Oh well. New caliper it is then - hopefully a second hand one for maximum thrift. I should have just replaced the sodding thing anyway instead of faffing about with sliders that are impossible to get hold of. Ugh. Oh well. At least it isn't raining for once.

[Lacquer Peel]

You haven't got much to lose, stick it by the wood burner or in the oven - the heat may free the piston.

[dollywobbler]

I need the car tomorrow, so can't have it out of action. Someone on Club XM reckons they've got a good caliper for cheap.

 

After getting everything back together again (losing loads of time trying to find my 7mm spanner for the sodding bleed nipple - the spanner was obviously on the mantelpiece in the dining room...) I then managed to get the XM stuck on my own driveway. It's quite muddy! This is the result.

 

Here's a short vid of it cocking a wheel. Fortunately, I'm quite good at getting unstuck or it might have ended up in the stream...

https://twitter.com/dollywobbler/status/684757459353907200

[forddeliveryboy]

They are a proper thing, last of the "real" Citroens 

 

 

What is a 'real' Citroën? If this was the 1930s people would be saying the new-fangled Traction Avant wasn't a real Citroën - structurally too complex, awkward to work on and unnecessarily fast through corners. If it was the 80s people would be lamenting the end of the Michelin-era cars (Tractions, DS and ID, SM, GS and CX) which were all of a similar class of design and philosophy, where engineering came first and it was expected that this alone would stimulate sales.

 

The Peugoet-based bigger Cits (BX, XM, Xantia, C5) had the gas over oil setup grafted on to PSA platforms, and it worked pretty well - many say a good XM has all the qualities of an earlier generation. Fwiw, I think it's the ZX which manages that best - probably the simplicity and purity, plus the fact they ride well all the time. As sweet as its step-sister the 306 isn't.

[dollywobbler]

Caliper arrived and was fitted on Sunday. XM failed its MOT on Monday, was fixed and retested on Tuesday, ready for Friday to Sunday driving... </pisspoorCraigDavid>

 

£144 for a bit of welding, a steering rack gaiter fitting and MOT. Not bad. Cheap XM continues to be cheap. How long can this continue? Mega-mile weekend coming up so let's hope for a bit more yet! 10,000 miles covered since the previous MOT and I've just checked to find it's 9000 miles since the last service. That's ok. Due every 10,000 so I can wait for better (ha!) weather.

[dollywobbler]

MOT tester gave me a verbal advisory on number plates, so I thought I'd better actually get some new ones made up. Our usual friend came up trumps. Like for like replacements!

 

Anyone know anything about Condate Cars?