Quick thought/question on the new tax RFL system

[carlo]

Having decided to put my 406 Coupe up for sale again, the fact it is taxed until the end of October poses some interesting questions.

 

1  The buyer is now expected to buy tax immediately, but as it's taxed on the main system, and I obviously can't claim it back now.  I might as well leave it on the car so presumably the buyer could drive the thing back sort of legally without getting stopped, which must be an advantage?  I suppose it's then down to how quickly the DVLA receives notification from me that I've sold it.

 

2  Although it is in my interest to tell DVLA asap, in the interim period the car would be 'legal' on the road would it not?  So if I was really stupid and trustworthy enough we could come to an 'agreement' to put forward the sale date a few weeks and no one would be any the wiser?

 

3  This whole scenario shows pretty quickly how they're going to profit from the new arrangement; I have to throw away 3/4 weeks tax and the buyer then has to buy tax for the same period.

 

 

 

 

[carlo]

And a further thought no.4:

 

If I was to keep the disc here, presumably it's perfectly possible for him now to trundle down to the nearest post office and tax a car that's already taxed?

[richardmorris]

Erm. No. You have to send the tax disc back to dvla to claim back the remaining amount straight away - the fact that you won't get anything back for the three weeks remaining is their new little scam. The new owner has to tax immediately and can apparently do so over the phone (although where you find the telephone number I don't know).

 

Car will not be legal as you are no longer the registered keeper and the tax now goes with the keeper not the car.

 

As for the last point, yes the new keeper has to tax a car that is already taxed and paid for.

[ruffgeezer]

The new system is bollocks really isn't it? If for example I was to expand on my fleet of shit old vans, but kept them all the same colour and model, I could legitimately duplicate the plates from the first one and tax it, and drive the other two for free.

 

The van is registered to me, it'll show as taxed, you'd have to be doing something really daft before someone spotted it.

[richardmorris]

The new system is bollocks really isn't it? If for example I was to expand on my fleet of shit old vans, but kept them all the same colour and model, I could legitimately duplicate the plates from the first one and tax it, and drive the other two for free.

 

The van is registered to me, it'll show as taxed, you'd have to be doing something really daft before someone spotted it.

 

 

I hadn't thought of that.

[chaseracer]

I think many people already have, judging by conversations I've had.  

 

Allegedly, m'lud...

 

[dollywobbler]

Erm. No. You have to send the tax disc back to dvla to claim back the remaining amount straight away 

 

Not true. Tax discs effectively no longer exist. You have to send the V5 off, as normal. DVLA will issue a refund (if due) when they process the V5. Given that they seem to have lost the one for the Rover, I can see no* problems at all here.

 

All this means that the buyer can trundle home in a car that shows up as legal on the system if it was still taxed by yourself. Technically against the rules, but does anyone actually care? I'd be wary about changing sales dates on the V5 though. It's the registered keeper who gets the fines for traffic/parking offences. I wouldn't be happy post-dating a V5 for a car someone else is driving about in.

[Minimad5]

How about this - I am due to pick up a car next month, but was going to register it in Miss_Minimad5s' name, but insure it in my name.
I assume it will allow me to tax it, as there is an active policy regardless of it being in another name, but can Plod be cuntish as it's not in my name ?

[carlo]

It seems the actual sale date has taken on a very important relevance as to whether a car is taxed/legal or not.  I tend to agree with DW, I'd feel a lot happier driving home a car I'd just bought if it was still taxed until the end of the month.

[AlabamaShrimp]

The computer is God and always right. If the car shows taxed then it is. Unless you are driving lime a twat why would you be stopped?

 

If you were, the computer still says it's taxed so I would argue it out in court as to who's right.

[Pillock]

I'm going to suggest that any car sold in the first week of the month will have the last day of the month before put down as the date of sale, so you get another months refund.

 

DVLA take so long to process they can't really call you out on it.

 

As for driving untaxed, yeah technically you need to phone up the DVLA before driving off. But assuming you can make it home before the DVLA open the envelope with the change of keeper form (likely, although not guaranteed for some of our collection capers!) it'll show as taxed on the computer so unless it's a wreck, or you're driving like an arse, you won't get pulled.

 

I would be very surprised indeed to hear of anyone leaving the tax until they got home, getting fined or stopped.

[Hendry]

Dont know if its been said already as CBA to read all the posts, but if your tax is until end of October, then surely the way around paying those robbing bastards twice for the month of October is you keep the V5 until end of October, put sale date as 1st November and send away, new owner buys his tax from 1st November, then the only illegality is the new owner would need to bend the truth to his insurer and say he is the registered keeper for a couple of weeks in October when he in fact isn't as the v5 hasn't been posted yet.

[dollywobbler]

It has been said, and I maintain that's a dumb thing to do. Unless you like trusting a stranger to behave themselves in a car still registered to you that is. Really, while it's a pain that DVLA gets two lots of money for one month, it's not worth getting upset about. Just pay the money.

[carlo]

Dont know if its been said already as CBA to read all the posts, but if your tax is until end of October, then surely the way around paying those robbing bastards twice for the month of October is you keep the V5 until end of October, put sale date as 1st November and send away, new owner buys his tax from 1st November, then the only illegality is the new owner would need to bend the truth to his insurer and say he is the registered keeper for a couple of weeks in October when he in fact isn't as the v5 hasn't been posted yet.

 

Can't be arsed to read the thread, have an avatar, or even type 'Can't be arsed'.  This is one busy man!

[Jim Bell]

The new system is bollocks really isn't it? If for example I was to expand on my fleet of shit old vans, but kept them all the same colour and model, I could legitimately duplicate the plates from the first one and tax it, and drive the other two for free.

 

The van is registered to me, it'll show as taxed, you'd have to be doing something really daft before someone spotted it.

 

Yup. You dont even have to pay for the tax. Just clone some plates of one on Ebay that shows taxed/insured. Ebay will sell "show plates" that are legal font etc.

 

I see no way for the feds to cotton on as long as you keep checking your "van" is on askmid and taxed.

[Stixy]

 

 

 

2  Although it is in my interest to tell DVLA asap, in the interim period the car would be 'legal' on the road would it not?  So if I was really stupid and trustworthy enough we could come to an 'agreement' to put forward the sale date a few weeks and no one would be any the wiser?

 

 

 

 

If the new owner decides they dont need insurance and dont need to slow down for speed cameras it could cause you a lot of trouble 

[EssDeeWon]

Think I will just switch to DD in the new year when the current wheels need taxing.

 

The only good thing about the new tax regime is it will stop those bloody annoying tight arse adverts where the seller states 'will leave tax disc in car for the right price'

[Stixy]

I cant remember the last time i bought a car that was taxed anyway      ,

 

its only right the new owner should pay there own tax , every other form of tax  has to paid by the individual being taxed   

 

 

as for DD  payments   there is no way in the world the master computor is getting my bank account number as the next step will be automatic sorn fines 

[Richard]

If the new owner decides they dont need insurance and dont need to slow down for speed cameras it could cause you a lot of trouble 

 

They can do a lot worse than that. If you don't cancel your insurance and they have an accident your insurance company pays out and comes after you for the money.

[Stixy]

They can do a lot worse than that. If you don't cancel your insurance and they have an accident your insurance company pays out and comes after you for the money.

 

Yes i read about that the other week   with the motorcyclist  

[robinmasters]

The thing o haven't yet seen a satisfactory answer to is this; if I buy a car, which is taxed, drive it home (on the basis that the DVLA don't know the keeper has changed yet), then tax it myself in the next few days, do they issue a fine because there is a gap between the date of transfer and of me buying the tax?

 

I suspect the answer will be yes, sometimes.

[carlo]

I suspect they would have to prove the car had been used in the interim period on the road, much like the previous rules.

[drum]

It's always been possible to have several identical cars and run them on the same number plates and tax disc.

[CortinaDave]

you could always put date of sale down as 30th sept... In which case as it was the day before the rules changed, the new keeper would still get the tax.

[stephen01]

Thought it was road fund licence, not tax? We all know it's a joke! If they have changed the rules so much why can't they work out 'tax' on a daily basis? (well we all know why, money) then no one is out of pocket! DVLA are already saving 25 million £ via the new rules, add the double tax when buying and selling cars they must be rolling in it! 

[CortinaDave]

It will increase evasion. Folk who just totter about locally and don't stray onto motorways are unlikely to come across an ANPR equipped plod or camera. The busybody neighbour peering at the disc in their window was probably the only reason they paid up before... But I reckon DVLA have realised they'll make so much extra cash this way it's worth the increased dodging.

 

Here's the thing though - given they had to get an MOT and insurance to get the disc - they probably won't bother with that now either.

[mercrocker]

That last point above is what I have been harping on about to all and sundry who can be bothered to listen to me (an ever-decreasing number, I have to admit...)  The tax disc was proof you had paid your insurance and got an MOT.  Not infallible but bloody difficult to achieve without it.  ANPR is nothing compared to the nosy bastards who used to peer at other peoples discs.   Parkies for one example...Yes they will have access to the database and so on but we, the general public will have no idea who is running round without insurance and who isn't.   And that's not just snoopery or amateur vigilante stuff - I really, really want to be sure that the bloke behind me on his sat-nav or iPhone has at least got some insurance when he chuffs the back of my car.  

[drum]

Agreed^

That wee disc wasnt just a tax disc. To an extent, it was an mot and insurance disc too.

[Richard]

I'm just annoyed that I'm going to have to fork out an extra £100 or more immediately when I buy a car. Any car I buy is likely to have a more important use for that £100. It also means that I am committed from the moment I collect the car. Sometimes when you get home with a new car it becomes apparent that it won't be going on the road right away, if at all. The monthly DD isn't an option for me because I've been screwed over on DDs by better organised and more honest organisations than DVLA.

[FredTransit]

You havent been asked for proof of insurance for over a year at the PO and its not checked online. The DD can only be used for continuous tax, so theres no way of getting just one months tax instantly.

SORN used to cancel the tax and you had to send back the disc for a refund. Is this automatic now, if you paid say 6 months? Maybe thats a way round having to tax more than a month up front?