GM in the shit

[r.welfare]

Back on topic, the Sunday paper seemed to indicate that Ford's cash "burn rate" is even higher than GMs - $52m per day vs. $47m. Scary figures. Mind you, I picked up a few American motor mags at the weekend, and one (Road & Track) had a 2009 US buyers guide - it's pretty clear to me that the vast scale of badge engineering (shades anything BL ever did) is part of the problem at least. Why GM never split their divisions into specific vehicle classes (e.g. Chevrolet do the compacts, Pontiac the sporty stuff, Cadillac the luxobarges and so on), I don't know.

[Father Ted]

Albert - dont suppose you could enlighten me how I can tell if a current Opel/ Vauxhall / Subaru / Cheverolet Zafira is nailed together in Germany or Poland could you. Yes Im a sad git after one, on the grounds taht it does what I want it to do for a reasonable price, but Im keen to buy a German nailed together one rather than Polski one.

Yes Ted, i dont think you are a wanky bollock brain for wanting to buy a Zafira - on the VIN plate you will find the country ID code the follwowing are for EU countries:

SA-SM Great Britain

SN-ST Germany

SU-SZ Poland

S1-S0 not assigned

TA-TH Switzerland

TJ-TP Czech Republic

TR-TV Hungary

TW-T1 Portugal

T2-T0 not assigned

UA-UG not assigned

UH-UM Denmark

UN-UT Ireland

UU-UZ Romania

U1-U4 not assigned

U5-U7 Slovakia

U8-U0 not assigned

VA-VE Austria

VF-VR France

VS-VW Spain

VX-V2 Yugoslavia

V3-V5 Croatia

V6-V0 Estonia

WA-W0 Germany

XA-XE Bulgaria

XF-XK Greece

XL-XR Netherlands

XS-XW Russia

XX-X2 Luxembourg

X3-X0 Russia

YA-YE Belgium

YF-YK Finland

YL-YR Malta

YS-YW Sweden

YX-Y2 Norway

Y3-Y5 Belarus

Y6-Y0 Ukraine

ZA-ZR Italy

ZS-ZW not assigned

ZX-Z2 Slovenia

Z3-Z5 Lithuania

Z6-Z0 not assigned

 

Good luck, Ted.

 

Sheesh

[The Reverend Bluejeans]

The only way for GM to get out of the shit in the UK is to ditch the Vauxhall name. Vauxhall just has so many downmarket scratter connotations. As for the Insipidia, it may well join the ranks of very good cars that didn't sell. It may be a great car, but it hasd a Vauxhall badge which means it will be worth less than a cup of cold piss after 18 months.

 

GM don't make cars in the UK anymore so the Vauxhall name should be killed off. Cars like the Astra and above should be renamed Opel which is exactly what they are. Really push the 'made in Germany' bit, nice plate glass dealereships and do an Audi.

 

Do what? I get sick of saying it but a) not everyone thinks Vauxhalls have a bad name (and being honest 99.9% of the ones that do are just idiots/badge snobs/sheep) and check the top ten car sales charts for the last fuck knows how many years and you'll see Vauxhall there time after time.

As regards GM not making cars in in the UK anymore and the laughable suggestion the Astra be called an Opel you have actuallyu just shown your ignorance on the whole matter for my money. The Astra is made in Ellesmere Port which last time I checked was part of the United Kingdom, and it's made by Vauxhall who are part of the GM family.

You're ignorant remarks (and that is what they are) tell me you're a badge snob who wouldn't buy a Vauxhall because of the name thing. I'd no sooner buy a car just because it was advertised as being made in Germany than I would stick my cock in a food blender.

The constant Vauxhall/GM bashing by a small minority on here is fucking annoying and your post is classic example of this. I don't ask or expect you to like Vauxhalls if you don't want to but for fuck's sake at least get your facts right and ease up on cheap shots at Vauxhalls, especially when you don't even know what you're talking about .

Oh dear oh dear!

 

Mate - Pot Noodles are one of the biggest selling foodstuffs, yet they are still awful shite very few would want to eat. Just because a car sells in massive numbers to company car and hire car fleets doesn't automatically mean it is of any interest or merit.

 

When did I say Vauxhalls were rubbish? They're not. They're okay if you like that sort of thing. I will say again; I don't moan about a Vectra hire car. They are decent enough, end of.

 

The Astra is an Opel. It was designed in Germany and is also built in Germany. Just like Cavaliers were built in both countries. It just happens that the RHD version is built by Scousers, not that that is anything to crow about.

 

The last proper Vauxhall was the Chevette, and even that was a rehashed Kadett. You have to go back to the FD/FE Victors and the HC Viva/Firenza/Magnum to find a real Vauxhall and not a rebadged Opel.

 

Face it - your car is a rebadged German Opel whether you like it or not. Doesn't matter two shits which factory made it. You may prefer to drive a car whose interior resembles a Kwik Fit waiting room, I like my throbbing V8, leather, OBC, armrests and aircon for £150.

£150? Must have devalued quite a bit then, is it a Vauxhall?

 

 

Oh, here's a clue for you about those German built Astras...

 

 

 

...remarkably good English on the sign isn't it?

Ps, if you walked round the plant you'll see the LHD Opel versions they export to other parts of Europe. Like Germany.

Yes, very good.

 

Are you really trying to tell me the factory in Russelsheim doesn't build Astras? Really? Where do you think all the engines come from? Where do you think the car was designed? Luton? Liverpool. Er, no. It was designed by The Master Race. You drive a CKD Kraut car Matey.

[Betaphile]

You've gotta laugh haven't you....I don't know how long GM have been going but lets say its 70-80 years.So thats 70-80 years of making nice profits and probably huge profits since the 70's. And now, after 18 months of down turn they are going tits-up....what a joke.

A round century, this year. But this decline has been in motion for a long time, a death spiral caused by constantly deteriorating market share, from the sixties onwards. GM came close to bankruptcy in 1992, and was saved by the SUV boom, which generated immense profits ($15-20k per unit). But to give you an idea of just how much trouble they're in, the last three-and-a-half years have seen the wiping of well over $70 billion (not a typo) from the company's bottom line.

Did they learn nothing from the British motor industry's pitiful slide into the shit? No chance of long term survival at all for these dinosaurs. Too much is wrapped up in history & politics to save it from the inevitable. I should think that they'll have to start selling off the family silver pretty shortly.

They have been, for many years - they've flogged stakes in Isuzu, Suzuki, Subaru, Fiat, GMAC, Delphi, Detroit Diesel, Electromotive, Allison Transmission, and, soon, ACDelco. This is just the endgame. They literally have almost nothing left worth selling - all that is left is the rump, and having shown the ultimate sign of utter desperation by suspending virtually all future product development (which is like cutting off your legs in an industry in which you need to run merely to keep up), the end is truly inevitable for GM. Whether it's now or whether it's delayed for a couple of years via a bailout, the result will be the same, and it will be messy indeed. Actually, in my estimation, the mainstream media has done an absolutely shithouse job of covering Detroit's decline. The Truth About Cars started to beat the drum about four years ago, and I strongly recommend it if you want to learn more than you ever wanted to know about this issue, in excruciating blow-by-blow detail. Yet staggeringly, the MSM still don't really get it. They will soon enough, mind you, though it'll still be after the fact. Let's break this down into really simple terms. As of September 30, GM had, according to its own accounts, $16.2 billion in liquidity. In the last quarter, they burned $2.3 billion a month. There is precisely no reason to think this will be stemmed during this quarter and plenty of reasons to think it will accelerate. In other words, as of now (mid-November), The General is certainly down to below $14 billion in cash-on-hand. Now, here's the important bit. Depending on whom one believes, GM needs at least $10 billion and as much as $14 billion simply to keep the lights on. This is not my postulation, this is verified fact. The smarter elements of the MSM are slowly catching on, but there are still plenty of dumb statements out there which deserve to be shot down as the inane idiocy they are (witness the prevalence of words like 'shocking' and 'collapse' in the coverage). Just because you were asleep as this was playing itself out - across months, years, decades - hasn't made it any less predictable, or inevitable. What to do? To me, the most important thing is actually not the Big 3 per se, but bailing out the supplier base. Most of these guys are critically close to the brink, having cut their margins to the bone under pressure from the manufacturers, and if any number of them go, so does Detroit. It's also important for another reason - they'll need it if part 2 of this plan is to work. Namely, lend whatever's left in the kitty to Ford, and let GM and Chrysler sort out their own arrangements. Ford, it seems to me, have a better standing (especially on the coasts) than the other two, have made massively more progress in their turnaround plan (and not just by virtue of having one), and actually stand a half-decent chance of delivering ROI. The obvious problem with all this, of course, aside from more than halving the suppliers' workload (hence the requirement for their own bailout), is the loss of jobs. But unfortunately, at this point, there are only bad choices and worse choices. Ford, IMHO, is worth committing to, whereas a government bailout of the other two is only going to perpetuate the failed status quo. That's not to say that Ford is guaranteed to make it, not by a long shot. But they are the only ones whose management 'gets it' - while GM's cash burn is because they're screwed, I gather Ford's burn is high because they're investing in bringing their new models to market quicker in the US. The bottom line is, Chrysler will certainly die; ultimately, this can't be helped. GM? Who knows. Once it files Chapter 11, there's a possibility corporate raiders will pick up the pieces, although this would've been more likely pre-econoclypse. This is basically the only time I would ever speak positively of these types, but if one of them is given free rein to go about turning GM into a competitive entity, chopping and changing where they see fit, I believe there is a great deal of potential waiting to be tapped. In what form that manifests itself, I don't know. Lots of job cuts, for sure, axing of brands, definitely, and maybe even a breakup of the group. But we've seen what GM can do, when it applies itself. Under new management, one would hope that potential can be unleashed. In reality? Congress will very probably authorise a bailout to perpetuate the status quo, though the timing is a bit difficult - changeover period between administrations and all that, plus, due to the inertia in the media, there seems to be a lag in the appreciation of just how severe the crisis is, which will be interesting. All told, though, what a lovely inauguration present for Obama. "Welcome to the presidency, kid."

[AnthonyG]

I think Obama's trying to strong arm Bush & his Treasury Secretary Paulson to release some of the $700bn earmarked for banks to save the car makers. A GM bankruptcy in January is not the inugaration present he wants or needs.As Mr Welf says, GM has many brands - what is the point of the 'GMC' SUV brand for instance, and Saturn might as well be Opel since thats all they are now. Buick, on the other hand, is very popular in China.Chrysler is the walking dead and will at best be taken over by Renault Nissan or at worst just disappear - MG Rover style. Jeep may survive to be bought by an Asian carmaker.The Americans neglected cars for too long - as an example Ford US didn't replace the Mk1 Focus like in Europe with a new one - they restyled the old one (losing the innovative looks) and more or less with the attitude 'that's what people who buy small cars deserve'. Ford's saving grace in product terms is in fact courtesy of the boys in Germany, Belgium and the UK, ie European models such as the new Fiesta, next generation Focus etc. Mulally (the boss) has said he wants to see 60% common model ranges by 2010.

[r.welfare]

A lot of people thought Rick Wagoner was the bloke to pull GM up by the bootstraps. It seems the task was just too mammoth.Disappointingly everyone's favourite car-loving pensioner, Bob Lutz, seems to have done F.A. for the brand too. Quoted as wondering why sales of Pontiac and Buick dipped sharply last month after saying "We might need to close those two brands".Buick, in fact, should go the way of Oldsmobile, as I can see nothing of merit in their line. Unbelievably, the best Pontiac, the G8 (which, of course, is not a Poncho at all but a Holden), will not be renewed. And Saturn just serve now as an outpost of niche Euro imports (Astra, Vectra), a long way from their original mission statement.Ford...actually have a better US product line than GM, all in all. But the US Focus is a dog's dinner; they will introduce the Euro version next year apparently. But at what price? Can't compete with the Koreans. The 2010 Mustang looks exactly like the 2005 model. One wonders if the "world car" concept will work (isn't that what "Ford 2000" was all about?). It kind-of worked for the Chevette and Mk2 Cavalier. It didn't really work for the Mk3 Escort as the only interchangeable parts between US and RoW versions were 11 metric screws, or something like that. It certainly didn't work for the Mk1 Mondeo. The Taurus bombed in Oz. And the only reason the Mk1 Fiesta sold a quarter-mill between '78 and '80 in the States is because of the fuel crisis.Shame Chrysler will die, but only because the Challenger is a lovely-looking car.What a mess. But hey - welcome back, Betaphile. Have you got the 128 sorted out yet?

[Betaphile]

Hey RW - I've been around, just been busy so haven't posted much. But yup, 3p is my daily smoker (adopting a very literal definition of the term) at the moment...

 

On the whole world car idea, someone who was once deeply involved with this sort of stuff once told me it was a BS premise, parroted by execs in an effort to demonstrate knowledge of what they're talking about, but in reality demonstrate the complete opposite to people who actually do know something about making cars. He said, for example, that having studied the breakdown of 3 Corollas (US, Euro and JDM) there were no common parts - not one. Even the badges were coloured differently. The US market 3-Series has a modified floorplan compared to the European one (different - wider - seats, requiring different rail mountings), and the differences go from there. The original Focus was supposed to be designed to resolve these differences, but by the time it actually landed Stateside, the commonality of parts was less than ten percent with the Euro version. The irony is, Ford remains committed to the idea of a world car, and will continue to prove why it does not work. The reason Toyota and Honda in particular are so successful is that they build the best car they can for each market.

 

GM's problem is they should have taken the tough decisions to restructure in the mid-'90s, when they had the time and money to do so. By that I mean they should have kept Oldsmobile, axed Buick, Pontiac and GMC's passenger vehicle line, never bought Hummer, and reorganised their dealer franchises so that it was structured along the following lines:

 

Chevrolet-Cadillac

 

Oldsmobile-Saab-Saturn

 

Difficult? Sure. No-one ever said it would be easy. But they might have stood a fighting chance under that plan. Now, it's all far too late, far too hard, and bankruptcy is the only option.

 

IMHO Lutz is a loud-mouthed idiot whose contribution is inversely proportional to his opinion thereof. Ironically, although I thought Wagoner was totally out of his depth, until today I had no problems with him on a personal level - until I saw this. When you start putting yourself above the company and millions of livelihoods, that's when you cross the line from delusional to contemptible in my book.

[Mr_Bo11ox]

While Vauxhall/Opel seem to churn out some decent if slightly dull products, overall GM seems to me to be completely out of touch with reality, and has been for some time. Their stweardships of the different brands they own seem to be totally disjointed and half-arsed with no real strategy of any sort. Why would you re-badge all your euro-market korean grey porridge as Chevrolets, the same brand who sell the Corvette? Absolutely no idea, just crazy man. Why on earth stick Saab badges on a chevy SUV tank and a Subaru Impreza wagon? WHY? Developing a full range of Hummers? GR* 4 WANKERS. get outta town man. They have the air of a load of clueless suits fiddling about aimlessly whilst lining their own pockets and quoting daft buzzwords and management speak, with no real direction to what they are doing. Their stewardship of SAAB seems to me to be a textbook example of how not to take over and run a subsidiary brand, truly the absolute pits. How many times have CAR magazine reported 'Saab is back' only for them not to be back in any measurabel way since GM got involved in the early 90's. 'GM-Fiat partnership', what was the point? It was as if they were looking to get into bed with someone just for the sake of it rather than to achieve a specific purpose. Cadillac BLS? Cadillac WTF more like, what a hopeless waste of time of a car.They have been wandering aimlessly for so long now its surprising to me that they have lasted this long. MORONS

[The Reverend Bluejeans]

I had a vague clue to the state of GM when Fiat pulled the plug - Fiat are not stupid, despite making turds like the Croma and trying revive the Lancia corpse.Neither GM or Ford can compete with the Japanese or Koreans on the playing field of everyday smokers. They just can't. GM/Chrysler/maybe Ford needs to go bankrupt, kill off the stuff that doesn't make money (most of it then) and start again by making the cars that are desirable and profitable. Ford of Europe (highly profitable) needs to be split away from the parent company, and likewise Vauxhall Opel from GM. The future in American cars as far as I can see is in niche products that the Asians and Europeans can't make - the Mustang, Corvette, Challenger and stuff like that. Saab is finished - it has had too long to properly break into the BMW/Audi market that nobody gives a shit anymore. All due credit to Ford for making a very good job of Volvo, and a kick in the arse for making such an almighty bollocks of Jaguar.

[MrRegieRitmo]

Why would you re-badge all your euro-market korean grey porridge as Chevrolets, the same brand who sell the Corvette? Absolutely no idea, just crazy man.

I guess they must be so deluded as to think that people outside America have no concept of Chevrolet & everything they are known for & previously stood for, because of course the world outside of America is small minded & stupid. Pot calling the kettle black more like. I've often looked at Chevrolet cars over here (the Daewoo variety) & wondered what was going through their mind when they thought that us Your-opee-annes would be gullible enough to see them as something completely cool, new & trendy & none of us had ever heard of Chevrolet before & got any expectations of what they should be like! They must have thought they could pull the wool over our eyes with that one....

[Father Ted]

Subaru

Opel

Holden

Vauxhall

 

Any more?

[pogweasel]

Subaru

 

 

Did you know that this car was named in honour of 'legendary' broadcaster Dave Lee Traviq?

TEH HAIRY CORNFLAQ.

 

Fact.

[Cavcraft]

OMG! My car was designed in Germany, now I can cancel my planned cock extension. GR8 4 SAVIN XMAS CA$H.

 

Mr C Vette,

105, Griffin View,

Ellesmere Port,

Germany.

 

 

 

Back o/t:

 

Can't confirm it as I don't have top insider knowledge/shares/access to their records but I'm told Vauxhall as a company (as opposed to GM) made a profit so shouldn't go under as it's a viable concern. Now of course that doesn't mean they won't go under and it doesn't mean that any other manafacturer would want to buy them out but hopefully it's enough to save them should the dreaded axe fall.

Also been told the plans to build the next Astra are so far advanced at Ellesmere Port that they 'couldn't afford to move it anywhere else'. I'd be very surprised if the American government didn't step in to save GM but maybe they need a new chief exec who will concentrate on keeping key marques and binning the small fry stuff. Surely someone would be interested in stuff like Daewoo, maybe a relatively low key manafacturer from the far East?

Anyone know the breakdown/profit/loss figures for Saab, Daewoo etc? Purely for personal interest I'd like to see where the biggest drains on GM come from.

[The Reverend Bluejeans]

That's disgraceful. No, not the Legend that is DLT - but the Subaru badge on the VoxHall Chakira. At least when BMC badge engineered the 1100/1300 they changed the whole grille and not just the badge. Am I right in thinking the Yanks have a Scab based on a Subaru?

[The Reverend Bluejeans]

OMG! My car was designed in Germany, now I can cancel my planned cock extension. GR8 4 SAVIN XMAS CA$H.

An imagination extension would be more appropriate. GR8 4 THKNG.During your lunch meeting with the key Honchos at GM - the only reliable source of reliable information as opposed to the bloke who cleans the bogs at your local dealer - did they tell you how Peugeot had 'no plans' to close Ryton? Scousers are cheap, but not as cheap as Lithuanians.

[Mr_Bo11ox]

fuggin wars rev blowjob, stop winding him up will ya!?

[Volksy]

Am I right in thinking the Yanks have a Scab based on a Subaru?

Yup, the Saab 9-2X based on the Impreza Estate..

 

Behold -

 

[Father Ted]

 

Bugger me, a Chevvy Zafira

[Jazzy Jeff]

The Saab Impreza just screams future shite. The American car industry has been rogered for decades, there is a reason why Detroit is renowned as such a cesspit in the U.S. It's rather like BL but on a much grander scale, admitedly the companies still exist, but even in their heartland they are much reduced.And rather like BL, GM is awash with brands that have been reduced over the years to next to worthlessness, a product line up that overlaps and makes no logical sense, and a workforce that is so unionised (at least in Michigan) that Red Robbo would probably faint at the thought of it.I don't think it will disapear in a puff of smoke, more a long drawn out death, again, like BL. Infact the whole thing is just so reminicent of events at Longbridge to me you can right your own future of what will happen in a few words. Government bailout > Rationalisation > Collaboration > Silverware sold > Asset stripped > Final decline > Total demise.

[The Reverend Bluejeans]

My folks live over in that neck of the woods and have two cars, a GMC truck and a Yaris. The GMC truck is decent enough but had to be rustproofed before the chassis rusted to bits and the interior is a bit nasty. The Yaris is just the same as ours but is locally assembled in Canada. It is of course frighteningly reliable and hasn't so much as blown a bulb in 3 years.The downfall of the US car industry was partly begun by the VW Beetle, a car geared up to be doing 3000 rpm at 55 mph, 35-40 mpg, excellent quality control and because it never changed much, very good resale and excellent service/parts back up. As pleasant an idea as a 1959 Impala is, a Beetle that never went wrong and used half as much fuel was always a better idea. Max Hoffman began importing BMW 2002's and then of course came the mighty Toyota and Datsun. Did the Yanks knuckle down and develop a decent competitor? Did they bollocks. A perfectly built 32mpg Datsun 510 or a 4.2 litre 18 mpg AMC Pacer? That's a tough one.The US car industry has been imploding for years because they were not capable of building cars that were fit for either their more discerning clientele or for export. Mercedes 450SEL or a Cadillac Eldorado? Yeah, righto Sam.......If I'm not mistaken, the best selling car in the US is (and has been for years) the Toyota Camry. Ford's answer to this was the Taurus - and it was a reasonable car that sold in huge numbers. Then Ford got cocky, abandoned the Taurus and concentrated on SuV's just as the SUV market was about to implode. Sure, they launched a new saloon car but did they do the sensible thing and bring back the comforting, much loved Taurus name? Of course not. Think of the Cortina, and the early Sierra debacle.Idiots. I have little sympathy and the sad thing is, the US built some of the best cars in the world in the sixties.

[Cavcraft]

OMG! My car was designed in Germany, now I can cancel my planned cock extension. GR8 4 SAVIN XMAS CA$H.

An imagination extension would be more appropriate. GR8 4 THKNG.During your lunch meeting with the key Honchos at GM - the only reliable source of reliable information as opposed to the bloke who cleans the bogs at your local dealer - did they tell you how Peugeot had 'no plans' to close Ryton? Scousers are cheap, but not as cheap as Lithuanians.

Yeah I got the info from some INTERNETZ FONT OF ALL KNOWLEDGE who said Vauxhall don't make cars in Britain anymore. I expect he also thinks Ellesmere Port is in Liverpool too. Still, you can't educate pork as someone once said. It's better to shout spite than spout shite, so if you have nothing positive left to say and wish to carry on being a cock then be my guest. I'm a tit for reacting to the pathetic bollocks you've spouted on here and I apologise to the admin and others as I should have left it.That's the end of the matter as far as I'm concerned, if you do wish to carry it on that's up to you but I'll do my best not to sink to your level again as two wrongs don't make a right.-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------That Saab estate looks bleeding awful and reminds me of that cartoon film 'Cars', or whatever it was called. If that's the best Saab can come up with then I wouldn't be surprised to hear they're in the shite.

[retrogeezer]

Sure, they launched a new saloon car but did they do the sensible thing and bring back the comforting, much loved Taurus name? Of course not.

errr, yes they did:http://www.fordvehicles.com/cars/taurus/

[Volksy]

That Saab estate looks bleeding awful and reminds me of that cartoon film 'Cars', or whatever it was called. If that's the best Saab can come up with then I wouldn't be surprised to hear they're in the shite.

Bet its more reliable than most Saabs since GM took over...

[Justin Case]

Great thread, pity at one stage it degenerated into personal abuse There's nothing wrong with badge engineering as such; the Rootes Group did it successfully for many years. Hillman = basic, Singer - posh Hillman, Humber = really posh Hillman and Sunbeam = sporting Hillman, all using the same basic engineering and sold from the same showrooms. BMC and its successors fell apart because top management were too weak to sort out the warring factions and get on with rationalising the products and dealer network.Most buyers of new cars are only interested in whether the car suits their needs, is reliable and looks good on the drive. They neither know nor care about the oily bits, or how the car started life. From what I can see, unlike Toyota and Honda, GM in particular have failed to do this in the US, and are paying the price. They will probably survive for as long as it takes to provide alternative employment in the Detroit area, screwing together Opels and sticking Chevrolet, etc badges on them with the government aid presented so confusingly that the taxpayer will believe they are getting a good deal

[MrRegieRitmo]

That Saab estate looks bleeding awful and reminds me of that cartoon film 'Cars', or whatever it was called. If that's the best Saab can come up with then I wouldn't be surprised to hear they're in the shite.

Bet its more reliable than most Saabs since GM took over...

Should be called a Saabaru or a Subaab

[mk2_craig]

Am I right in thinking the Yanks have a Scab based on a Subaru?

Yup, the Saab 9-2X based on the Impreza Estate..

 

Behold -

 

How about this pile of shite then? Cadillac BLS wagon, seemingly a thinly disguised Saab 9-3.

 

 

Isn't there also a Subaru SUV thing that Saab have rebadged for certain markets?

[Volksy]

Isn't there also a Subaru SUV thing that Saab have rebadged for certain markets?

Not quite, Saab 9-7x is based on a GMC Envoy/Chevy Trailblazer.

 

 

Apparently they were going to rejig the Subaru Tripebeca into a Saab at one point, but shelved it.

[Volksy]

How about this pile of shite then? Cadillac BLS wagon, seemingly a thinly disguised Saab 9-3.

 

 

And isnt that originally a Vectra?

 

[pogweasel]

I was looking at them Saab 9-3 GM jobs the other day. Are they really so shit as to not be worth bothering with?(Plus the 'pistonheadz' image of know-all keyboard hero twuntholes who drive ta grey 2.2TiD version but delude themselves it's an Elise is offputting)

[Betaphile]

Isn't there also a Subaru SUV thing that Saab have rebadged for certain markets?

Not quite, Saab 9-7x is based on a GMC Envoy/Chevy Trailblazer.

 

 

Apparently they were going to rejig the Subaru Tripebeca into a Saab at one point, but shelved it.

It got as far as a clay model:

 

 

 

I was going to say at this point that GM's basic trouble is that all of their basic structures and business model is geared towards having 35%+ of the US market, but that's not really the essence of the problem. The problem - apart from having pissed off a few entire generations of Yanks who have vowed never to touch one of their products again - is that management is totally clueless about how to develop brands, satisfaction, and customer loyalty - an entire managerial class with the mentality that all that matters is the next quarter's bottom line. The brazen trashing of brands left, right and centre is merely one symptom of that.

 

And that's before you get to the really mind-bogglingly stupid stuff. The story goes that when Pontiac decided to develop a cabrio version of their midsize G6 (Vectra-sized), they based it around the 9-3 convertible platform, because the 9-3/Vectra/G6/Malibu/etc all ride on Epsilon so no problems, right?

 

Well...

 

It only transpired when someone was assigned to working out the production details, that Saab had modified the 9-3 platform so extensively from the Vectra, that it could only be built on the Trollhattan production line. Cue mad panic as GM spent a fortune adapting the G6 line to be able to manufacture this niche variant.

 

Not all examples are that egregious, but the fact is that GM has long been a hilariously badly-run company that has only survived this long because of the unbelievable amount of success it had for over 50 years.

 

@ pog: I like 9-3s but I think they're expensive for what they are. If you can get one at 50% off list though, go for it. Just avoid 2003 models in particular, Saab used the first year of the Epsilon generation as an extended test and development session by its customers, but anything after 2006 should be OK.