P38s - talk to me!

[warninglight]

I have a desire for a Range Rover. I've always dismissed the P38s on the grounds of looking like Metrocabs and OMGNikasil stories, as much as I love the first generation, it would have to be a soft dash as I just can't get along with the interiors on the 'proper' ones. I'd love an early L322 on gas but they're still too much money to spaff on something that's just going to break.

 

A high spec P38 is starting to look more and more appealing, undecided on engine and gearbox mind. Anyone got first hand experience of P38s on here? Would likely replace both the C70 and the 88" if it came to it. Other half may get a 75/ZT (again diesel or 2.5 on gas) so driving duties could be split!

[crapcarcollector]

My best mate has a really late P38 4.6 autobiography thing. It's been pampered all it's life and has invoices for everything. It is a truly spectacular place to break down. Which it does. A lot. By contrast his £220 Alfa 147 is a paragon of reliability.

 

 

Sent from my Nokia 3310 using the force.

[michael1703]

I've got two

 

'95 6 cylinder diesel,manual gearbox,coil spring conversion

'00 4.0 v8 LPG automatic

 

The 6 cylinder isn't powerful enough to lug the 2.8Ton of bulk about and the manual gearbox is notchy and horrible and its a bit firm on coil springs

 

The v8 is thirsty and not cheap to run even with LPG,the auto box is horrible and currently I've got an EAS fault where the n/s/f airbag has collapsed and it says "EAS SLOW 35mph MAX" so it's listing to the front left corner

 

Plus point for the diesel is its pretty good on fuel and in heavy traffic the manual is nicer,just leave in fist and let the clutch slip so it toddles along under idle, the v8 auto in D is too fast with the petrol idle speed and you're toeing the brake all the time

 

The electrics drive you crazy with the constant beeping about windows not set etc,they are very comfy to drive though, I drove mine to Italy in the summer and I'll be taking it again this summer if it hasn't died by then.

 

I've spent minimal money on it in two and a half years,had to do a clutch change as I killed it pulling a 6 tonne army lorry with it in high range (low range doesn't work) headlining has fallen down but otherwise its been fine but mines just about to tick over the 200,000 mile point

 

Don't know as much about the v8, only just got it recently and not done enough miles in it yet, but there's a lot more to go wrong with it compared to the diesel manual

[dollywobbler]

I've driven one, a manual diesel. It was pretty grim. I dread to think how the diesel auto moves at all. V8s were going through a bad patch, and aren't terribly reliable - often made worse by bodge-job LPG kits and skinflint servicing.

 

Electrics can be a world of pain, though did apparently approve - later is therefore better, and the facelift made them look a little less Metrocab.

 

I still find myself wanting one though.

[jonny69]

Came in here to blag about filler. Bollocks.

[Pete-M]

I've had two 4.6s and used a few others.

 

I wouldn't buy another.

 

When they work, they're brilliant. Really very good. The rest of the time they're a bit nerve wracking because it's what will break next. Will the liners shift? Is the heater matrix going to ruin my week? Will there be a day when everything works as it should? No.

 

Wait till you can afford a 322 or buy a Classic. P38 is a liability.

[warninglight]

Think that's my answer more or less covered then!

 

Is the L322 really any better? I'm handy with spanners but don't fancy constantly fixing a modern (Anything made in the last 25 years is a new car - 17 year old Volvo with 202k and counting might be a hard act to follow...)

[dollywobbler]

L322s are a major advance. They seem less niggly, but when things go wrong, they REALLY go wrong. Gearboxes for instance. Several grand to replace when one gives up. If I had the money, I'd probably buy one - just not sure I'd necessarily keep it very long...

[michael1703]

The cheapest l322 that isn't knackered is £6200, I want one next, I've seen munted ones for less but they'd be a world of pain.

 

Range rover garage reckon the l322 doesn't go wrong but if it does it will be a wiring loom fault, I've also seen a few fire damaged ones where the wiring has burnt on copart in the last couple of years

[Pete-M]

I like the L322 and dont mind the computers. Really don't see what the fuss is. I'd rather play with the computers on a Rangie once a year than be bothered fiddling with points gaps and condensors once a week.

 

322s have weak gearboxes and the early ones had front diff issues.

 

I'm waiting till I can afford a Jag engined one. The BMW V8 is too revvy for a Rangie.

[scruff]

My best mate has recently bought a L322. He got a '53 plate diesel. He loves it, hasn't gone wrong yet, last owner changed the gearbox. A very nice way to travel and in a completely different class to a P38. I have had the pleasure of driving L322s in all flavours and like them a lot - N/A Jag V8 petrol is my fave, the TDV8 is awesome but sounds shite. Supercharged, GR8 but single figure MPGs and you can only really boot one on the autobahn. 

P38s do nothing for me personally, I've driven shit ones and gorgeous ones, but prefer my old Classic. But, P38s don't rust anything like a RRC. 

[e287yba]

L322s are a major advance. They seem less niggly, but when things go wrong, they REALLY go wrong. Gearboxes for instance. Several grand to replace when one gives up. If I had the money, I'd probably buy one - just not sure I'd necessarily keep it very long...

 

A gearbox falure on one of these led to a chap down the road getting 18 months in chokey (as well as 3  of his 5 'aquaintances' getting the same) for involvement in a £30k motor insurance fraud . Or was it £50k ?

 

It turned out - some years later when the QCs were discussing the 'quantum' of the claim - that the gearbox failure was actually covered under a warranty (cue hollow laughter) - they really WERE amateur clowns!!

 

Fake Road Accidents are for LOSERS!

[NorfolkNWeigh]

Thanks everyone,I was getting disheartened looking for a Classic I can afford that doesn't require a dustpan and brush to collect and was having unclean ' How bad could a sorted manual,coil converted 2.5 be?' The answer as we all know is ,very .

As for L322's ,I looked at getting one for my wife about a year ago. I bottled it, the consequences of the front diff,gearbox etc failing just after spending ten grand on a 10 year old car , and the subsequent lack of food and sex this would invariably result in meant I just couldn't do it. My solution was to spend the same amount on a very high spec Freelander 2, so far so good, but it's a girls car and whenever I drive it and see even the chavviest P38 piece of shit , I think I could have had a RR but didn't,I'm unworthy . She loves it, 35mpg all leather/ electrics and it's probably roomier inside than a Classic. I have to find a nice(ish) 3.9 before my masculinity fades away completely.

[Pete-M]

Coil converted P38s should be avoided with extreme prejudice. Sticking them on coils really ruins them. P38 was designed for air suspension, they lower at 50 mph to improve stability and it makes a big difference to how they drive and handle.

 

Sticking coils on a P38 is like shoving a Ford V4 into an Ro80. It's a terrible bodgey solution and one to be avoided.

[Partridge]

P38s talk to you? Are you sure those mushrooms you had for breakfast came from Tescos?

[warninglight]

How do people's experiences with Disco 2s compare?

[dollywobbler]

They're potentially a world of pain too. My neighbour's has covered over 250,000 miles, but it does seem to spend a lot of time being fixed. Chassis rot on them is pretty bad, but bodies are FAR better than Disco 1s. You really want a well looked after one.

 

TD5 engine is nice, when the foibles are sorted. Responds well to tuning as well, but you really need access to someone with a code reader. Some of those also have air suspension (rear only). It's not a bad system really, but can cost when things go wrong. Like anything.

[Parky]

Wheeler Dealers did a half decent episode on P38's, might be worth a watch (Eds bit anyway)

[mat_the_cat]

I know of a P38 which will be for sale around here - an early V8 on LPG in black. Been stood for a month or so and plenty of condensation inside so might not be the best buy in the world, but it will be cheap! The owner is currently...erm...incapacitated (something to do with pleasuring the Queen, or maybe I misheard) and won't be driving for quite a while.

[michael1703]

One thing that p38's have going for them is they don't rust

 

Classics and discos tend to need sills/rear wheel arches and boot floors when they're about 12 and chassis crossmembers when they are 15 years old

[Junkman]

I don't talk to people who drive P38s.

[dome]

At the risk of starting a barney on here have you thought about a Jeep Grand Cherokee? I had a wj shape(99-2004) 4.7 V8 on LPG. Was a cracking car and reminded me of a slightly modernised Rangey Classic-big V8, live axles so still a bit agricultural but loads of toys, comfy and mine was pretty reliable, despite having done 160 thousand hard miles when I got it.

[Pete-M]

I had a 4.0 ZJ on gas.

 

Quite liked it but it didn't like straight lines. Diff was on the way out and viscous coupling was on the way out. Other than that it couldn't be faulted for what it was. About 80% as good as a P38. About twice as reliable.

[Pete-M]

I used to smoke about in an X plate 4.6 Vogue that was looked after properly.

 

It was fine. Never went majorly wrong. Did 24 mpg on a run.

 

It has been the exception to the rule of the ones I've known

[Barry Cade]

If you buy a P38, you'll spend the total of your P60 on it, and end up with a P45 when it won't start in the morning.

[Rusty_Rocket]

I had a 4.6HSE example a couple of years ago.

 

I chose very carefully, mainly for the reasons Tayne (accurately) describes above.  I ended up with a vehicle that had endured long-term ownership, with only a couple of mature owners who were not afraid to spend out on it.

A big plus for me was the fact the engine had been replaced after the original suffered the infamous moving-liner problem and this alone was a £6k bill.  After I had totted up all the receipts, it became clear that the car had had over £20,000 of REPAIRS done to it in its relatively short life.  Yes that's £20,000 of parts and labour to repair problems and niggles over the years.

I drove home grinning like a Cheshire Cat, expecting at least a few months of trouble-free motoring 

 

What a fool is was 

The car continued to go wrong, and after the honeymoon period passed, I noticed the hopeless thing would follow every single rutt and imperfection on the road.  The (completely renewed) air suspension managed to be harsh over a bumpy road and wallowy in the corners.  Electrics wise, the wiring is so thin throughout the car, the insulation goes brittle after a few years and lets the damp in, the body control module throws in the towel when it gets cold/ the wind changes and permanently immobilises the car, the alarm would randomly go off, the battery would flatten itself due to the RF receiver etc etc etc etc.

 

As much as I love my other LR products, I'm afraid to say the P38a was bad from the start and was never properly sorted.  I spent thousands in my ownership trying to sort out problems that could not be solved.  In most cases, the 'fix' was simply to plough more money into the same, bad, cheaply made replacement parts that you would hope would last a few months at best.

 

I sold up and used a 1987 Metro for the next 6 months, which in comparison was well-designed, reliable and comfortable.

[Pete-M]

My first P38 came from a very posh estate in Scotland. It had folder after folder of expensively itemised receipts for work done at various specialists. Huge bills a plenty. Everything that had been replaced was apparently upgraded.

 

It was a pup.

 

The Vogue 4.6 I used for a while never really misbehaved. In 20k miles over a year all it needed was a coil pack and Middle box. It behaved perfectly, towed all kinds and behaved impeccably.

 

I've never known another reliable one, but I know a chap who ran his to 400k in 8 years, so it can't have been an utter disaster.

[Pete-M]

I've been offered a 4.6 on gas to do the Czech Escort collection with.

 

Do I trust it to do 2500 miles in a week?

 

No.