DMF To Solid Conversions. Worth It?

[Taff]

Thread bump!

 

I had a spin in this again for the first time in 18 months and it's still running perfectly after 80,000 miles. Not sure what that proves.

 

proves you can still drive, champ!

[dave21478]

I did a bit of googling on the BMW engined 75 and Freelander.  Curiously the DMFs on these seem to last forever and rarely cause a problem.

 

On the PugCits they seem to be of medium reliability but then not too bad without them either so you win either way.

 

It seems that Ford ones (from what people are saying here) are both necessary for refinement and short lived with a nasty habit of taking out starter motors with them, so you loose either way.

 

I fitted a solid flywheel to my TD4 Shitlander.  It was a strange one though - the clutch was kippered and slipping so needed changed anyway, but it had no rattly DMF symptoms. Once in bits it had a weird setup. As far as I know a DMF uses a solid clutch disc as there is no need for the springs in the clutch disc any more as the DMF takes up the shock of clutch engagement, but mine had the DMF AND a sprung clutch disc?! I suspect bodgery by a previous owner as the car is bodge-central.

Internet suggests various tolerances for the DMF to be acceptable for re-use but mine was flapping all over the place with a good 15 - 20 degrees movement in either direction before the springs started to make contact, and plenty of in n out and side to side slop.

I fitted a Valeo solid flywheel kit and it made precicely ZERO difference to the way the car idles, runs and drives. The clutch gets a proper hammering as I am often screwing about reversing big trailers up steep hills and rifting it up bumpy, steep tracks which due to the lack of low-range requires high revs and clutch slip to prevent it stalling. It stinks like a good`un and sometimes gives out a cloud of nasty smoke doing this sort of thing and the clutch feels a bit weird for a while afterwards but once its cooled down it goes back to normal.

[beko1987]

..... vaguely related issue -

 

How many kids who learned in a tractor (corsa mebbies) and NEVER stalled it.... went on to buy a pezz and embarrassed themselves at roundabouts

 

I know of at least one.....

 

 

TS

Having to drive the Meriva recently, I do this alot. Forget, go to just lift the clutch up and vaguley stab the accelerator at some point, and it stalls. 

 

So I put some concentration in, and veeeery gingerly lift the clutch whilst trying to hold the stupid electronic accelerator at 1500k, I either drop the revs and stall it, or put 2500k revs on with 1mm of movement and pull away like a twat with clutch slip, then kangaroo into 2nd, there's just no 'sweet spot', just a complete lack of any torque! I dread having to pull away on any sort of hill in it

[twosmoke300]

Ive fitted several single mass conversions and I can't feel any difference on test drive .

I'm a bit wary of the no brand or cheapy texsmark jobbies but Valeo kits seem very good .

Having said that dmfs are getting cheaper all the time

[warren t claim]

SECOND THREAD BUMP.

 

I've got a Vectra C (yeah I know) and the DMF is starting to rattle. Now my interest in the car runs out in 5 months time so I was wondering whether going solid is likely to fuck the 164,000 mile engine and box? It's the 1.9 SRi150 model on a 57 plate.

[sierraman]

I’ve had one, was noticeably rougher. Not sure on effect on crank or the gearbox, some people report added strain on them. You are probably looking at the thick end of several hundred quid to put a new clutch and flywheel in it.

[SiC]

SECOND THREAD BUMP.

 

I've got a Vectra C (yeah I know) and the DMF is starting to rattle. Now my interest in the car runs out in 5 months time so I was wondering whether going solid is likely to fuck the 164,000 mile engine and box? It's the 1.9 SRi150 model on a 57 plate.

A clutch and flywheel change will be a fair chunk of cash on this. How bad are the rattle and vibrations through the pedal? If you're only keeping for another 5 months I'd say, it it's not rattling badly, to just run as is.

[spike60]

SECOND THREAD BUMP.

 

I've got a Vectra C (yeah I know) and the DMF is starting to rattle. Now my interest in the car runs out in 5 months time so I was wondering whether going solid is likely to fuck the 164,000 mile engine and box? It's the 1.9 SRi150 model on a 57 plate.

Unless VX ones are a load cheaper and easier to fit than mondeo ones I'd roll the dice and let it rattle for 5 months. The money and chew (if DIY) won't be repaid in price when you sell.

[warren t claim]

I think I should point out that five months equates to about 25000 miles usage for me.

[spike60]

If you're going too do it I'd go DMF based on Mondeo experience. The car was much rougher with a solid but be warned the DMF that Kwikfit put in previously was rattling at 25k and appaling at 40k, so bad it was vibrating the brake pedal making it feel like the ABS had kicked in.

[sierraman]

I think I should point out that five months equates to about 25000 miles usage for me.

You might just as well run it till it blows if you do the DMF otherwise you’ll have passed the benefit on to the next person. Saw a receipt yesterday for a DMF, bearing and a clutch and the bill was £740. You could spend this then the gearbox bearings go if it’s the 6 speed box. If I could I’d run it till it packs in with that in mind.

[twosmoke300]

Dmfs are getting cheaper by the month . A decent conversion like valeo etc is only about 60-70 quid behind a proper job now .

The no name or techsmart type solid conversions are horrible and come with cardboard friction materials

[sierraman]

Is it on the original gearbox?

[Lankytim]

Don’t some engines break their cranks with the added stresses or did I dream that?

[rantingYoof]

The S60 (2.0T petrol) now has a DMF death rattle. After a run you can hear it quite distinctively when idling with the clutch up...a rattle coming straight up from underneath the car. Push the clutch in and it goes away. Let the clutch out slowly and it becomes alarmingly loud.

 

The bite point has also creeped up ever so slightly.

 

Looking at eBay, new DMFs for the 2.0T Volvo S60 are around £360. If my local friendly and very good £40ph garage is happy to take on the job, I'd be looking at £200 labour on top, perhaps (not sure on the book time tbh, but five hours seems reasonable).

 

I would have thought that, given my car isn't particularly powerful or torquey (180hp/220nm), that a solid conversion would be more feasible than on, say, a D5 or something with considerably more torque. However I'm not sure whether the cost difference would make it worth it; I cannot find single conversions on eBay for sale but looking at the cost of parts for the S40 and S80 it doesn't seem to be much cheaper.

 

While my commute is a straightforward 10 minute dual carriageway run, my job involves lots of gear changing and rural driving, so on reflection maybe, if I contemplate actually doing the job, I should stick with a DMF to preserve other components within the engine bay as people have helpfully pointed out earlier in the thread.

 

Either way, I'm hoping it lasts until June next year...flywheels/clutches don't just detonate do they? The car still starts up no problem...the filings haven't made it to the starter motor yet.

[forddeliveryboy]

I dunno about other engines and boxes, but I fitted a Valeo smf+clutch a few years ago to a VAG 110 TDi, the car ran perfectly after the initial 2 or 3 miles when the box rattled itself into its new environment. I'd be wary of newer applications where bearing sizes could be marginal at best.

[Talbot]

One thing to consider is that DMFs were partly brought in to counter the engine vibration caused by running modernz on engine oil as thin as water, done to try to wring every last MPG out of it.

 

I'm in the process of putting a solid conversion in my Disco Td5, and once done I'll be running a more sensible grade of oil that will hopefully keep the engine vibration and harshness to a minimum. Yes, I'll probably lose 1mpg, but a DMF and clutch kit is several million pounds for a Td5, so bugger it.

[forddeliveryboy]

^ That's good advice, I'd suggest gearbox oil is replaced too, even though 'filled for life'.

[forddeliveryboy]

^ That's good advice, I'd suggest gearbox oil is replaced too, even though 'filled for life'.

[The Reverend Bluejeans]

My 730i - 1989 - has the original dual mass flywheel and clutch and just over 300k.

 

So up yours. 

[sierraman]

BMW were the pioneers of the DMF, they’ve fitted them since the 1980’s but they rarely went wrong in the old ones.

[SiC]

Petrols generally don't have problems on their DMFs either. No where near like diesels did. The lazy low down torque of a turbo diesel seems to push them harder. Also costed down, crap quality parts of the early 2000s.

[Guest Hooli]

One thing to consider is that DMFs were partly brought in to counter the engine vibration caused by running modernz on engine oil as thin as water, done to try to wring every last MPG out of it.

 

I'm in the process of putting a solid conversion in my Disco Td5, and once done I'll be running a more sensible grade of oil that will hopefully keep the engine vibration and harshness to a minimum. Yes, I'll probably lose 1mpg, but a DMF and clutch kit is several million pounds for a Td5, so bugger it.

 

I'd stick with grades of oil recommended in the handbook, that's what the oilways etc will be designed for.

 

Shoving thicker oil in as it seems a good idea, but then doesn't flow down all the oilways and was what killed most CVHs when 20w50 was put in cause that 15w40 was too thin innit?

[forddeliveryboy]

Lots of engines are specced oil that's slightly on the thin side to improve the EU/govt testing results. The current Volvo came with an engine which felt like it was lubricated with water, turned out it was a 5W/30 which for the Audi 5 is a bit unnecessary - 10W/40 soon improved things.

 

But yes, oil which is too gloopy is as bad as too thin.

[forddeliveryboy]

Lots of engines are specced oil that's slightly on the thin side to improve the EU/govt testing results. The current Volvo came with an engine which felt like it was lubricated with water, turned out it was a 5W/30 which for the Audi 5 is a bit unnecessary - 5W/40 soon improved things.

 

But yes, oil which is too gloopy is as bad as too thin.

[twosmoke300]

^^^

Is that a dual mass post ?

[Guest Hooli]

Lots of engines are specced oil that's slightly on the thin side to improve the EU/govt testing results. The current Volvo came with an engine which felt like it was lubricated with water, turned out it was a 5W/30 which for the Audi 5 is a bit unnecessary - 10W/40 soon improved things.

 

But yes, oil which is too gloopy is as bad as too thin.

 

Which is why I mentioned the handbook, there is always a range of oils suggested in there.

[Guest Hooli]

^^^

Is that a dual mass post ?

 

You can tell by checking if it rattles....

[Noel Tidybeard]

OMG how did we all cope without DMFs back in the old days?

[twosmoke300]

Engines probably didn't have quite the same output per litre ( as much bang if you like )