LPG Conversions - Discuss

[gadgetgricey]

Basically the wife will only drive an Auto, so have been on the look out for a cheap diesel auto for a while, but she keeps saying she does not want to get rid of her Scenic. So have been considering the possibility of getting it LPG converted

 

Its been quite a reliable old bus apart from the fact it slipped its cam belt and tensioner about 6 months, which resulted in a big bill. This though hopefully means the engine has got a fair few miles left in it. Also as its a 2.0 Auto (Y reg) , she normally gets around 25mpg, but she does a fair few miles every week, so within a couple of years the conversion should pay for itself.

 

Just wondered if anyone had knowledge of LPG conversions on this type of car, and what would be the best type of system.

 

Thanks again

 

- Dave -

[skattrd]

I'd say the cars not worth spending £1k on an lpg conversion on, buy something thats all ready converted, or a diesel.

[Cavcraft]

Dave, no offence like but you've got a Renault and it's automatic. I'd imagine it's life expectancy is measured in minutes, so with respect to spend £1,500 or so on getting it LPG'd would be absolute and utter insanity. This is Autoshite though so let us know how you get on.

[Luxobarges_Are_Us]

Go for a multipoint injection system, ideally a sequential one.

 

Prins are the most well-regarded brand, but also the most expensive. Anything multipoint should do.

 

It may not make accounting sense, but if it's a known good car and she is fond of it, I say go for it.

 

Do Renault make their own autoboxes? Don't they buy stuff off ZF or something?

[Cavcraft]

 

Do Renault make their own autoboxes? Don't they buy stuff off Cadbury's or something?

 

EFA

[skattrd]

If you're looking at multi-point systems, then you're looking at distinctly more than £1k, nearer £2k if you're going for a reputable installer and a Prins system.

Spending that much on a 12+yr old Renault doesn't make any sense to me, however much she likes the car.

 

Think of what other motor you could buy with the money instead.

[Lankytim]

Buy one that's already converted. They are usually not much more expensive than a standard model.

[Lacquer Peel]

There are plenty of decent automatic LPG converted cars available for the price of converting your Laguna.

 

Example

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Volvo-S80-LPG ... 1196291417

[gadgetgricey]

No offence taken and I actually agree with all of the above.

 

Basically when the cam belt went pop we had to make decision to get it repaired or scrap it. Had enough for the repair, but nothing else to buy another car.

Decided rightly or wrongly to get the car fixed.

 

Unfortunately (Through no fault of the garage) the bill increased by £150 as another part was needed. We were committed to the repair, but if we had known about this beforehand, we probably would have scrapped the car.

 

However the wife now has her car that she has had for many years, feels safe in it and hopefully the engine is "sound". Gearbox is fine for the moment though Another factor is the wife will only drive certain cars. Dont laugh , but its got to have a flat back yah de yah da.......... Took ages to convince her that a Scenic would be a good choice

 

Know nothing about the various types of LPG conversions, but sent a message to a local place and they have got back to me to say £750 all in with associated certificates and two year warranty. Once again price wise seems do-able, because even if I get two years out of the car it would pay for itself.

 

http://www.autogaspol.co.uk/services/ca ... s_car.html

 

No mention if this is multi point injection, but was going to give the guy a call tomorrow to ask a few questions.

 

Thanks again

 

- Dave -

[Lankytim]

£750 seems suspiciously cheap to me. A good multipoint should be nearer £1500 i'd say,

[cort16]

I've driven a couple of single points and they where fine. It was in an older cars mind you so I don't know if wanging the LPG injector after the MAF on a Renault would make the engine shut down and the doors fall off.

[dollywobbler]

Put the cost of an LPG system to one side and spend it instead on fuel. See how long it actually takes you to spend it, then consider what your fuel bill would still be on LPG. The case for converting a car just doesn't seem to be there for me. I won't be converting the Merc, that's for sure.

[skattrd]

Under £1k will be single point.

I would also say for that price it will include a cheap cylindrical tank that takes up quite a bit of space, and possibly not an auto-switching system.

Be aware that there are different types of tanks and these can fill by one point (very slow) two (less slow) or four (not that slow). Tanks also only fill to 80% of their capacity, so a 60l tank fills to 48l, so not a huge range, bigger tank, more range, less boot space. Toroidal tanks that use the spare wheel well are more expensive, and I doubt that would be included in a £750 quote.

You get what you pay for with lpg kits. I've had cars with cheap lpg systems fitted, and I won't have another.

For me lpg has to be an auto-switching, multi-point system and no single hole tanks.

 

At present you say you get 25mpg, on lpg I reckon you'd be seeing nearer 20mpg.

Do a few sums for yourself, after you've got a proper quote

[R9UKE]

The auto gearboxes in those Scénics aren't bad at all, the occasional warning light and limp home mode when they get confused but failures are not as common as others. 25 MPG is also good, muvva used to get 22 out of her 1.6 auto.

 

I still think you'd be mad to LPG it. How long will it take you to earn that money back? Then there's the fact that once you're done with the car, the LPG won't make it any more desirable in the slightest, as it'll be an ageing Renault auto people carrier, so there'll be no return there.

 

Leave it as it is, it'll only fuck up as you're halfway through making your money back on the cost of conversion.

[Pete-M]

You'd be mental to gas it. Put the money for gassing it to one side, drive the Renault until it grenades then buy something better that already has gas.

[wackywacerwill]

Running a petrol transit has had me thinking of this more than once and I came to the following conclusions.

Getting someone to do the conversion saves me the bother though falls down when it comes to needing to pay for the service. The van could well expire before I see a return and if the truth be told I have some anxiety issues with letting others work on my vehicles.

Botching a system with old camping gas bottles has a lot of appeal. I'd love to hear from anyone here who has succeeded in such a feat as my mind was overwhelmed with the info I found on line.

The main thing that has stopped me investigating further is all the OMGLPGFAIL tales I found whilst researching it, the last thing I'd want is to invest time and money in a complex system that would induce badness in my reliable, if a little juicy van.

 

Surely the only sensible future safe option is to find a way to harness the power of arse gas for propulsion of your motor vehicle.

[Des]

I'm not sure it's possible to LPG any vaguely modern stuff for a reasonable cost, there's a whole load of fancy engine management malarky that needs to be kept happy, and if something goes wrong and you get a backfire all manner of expensive plasticy engine bits could get shattered to buggery. You need to be pretty sure you'll be keeping the car for many years, and then there's always the risk of the gummint raising the price of gas to match petrol, like the paddies did.

[Cavcraft]

Chris's point about filling them is a good one. I've only had one LPG'd vehicle, a GMC Sierra pick-up truck that only ran on LPG as some knob rocket had disconnected the petrol bit. Anyhow, filling it up was bleeding nightmare, more often than not you ended up letting more out than you put it. I'm a bit nervous with gas too and didn't like to hear it going in or escaping.

[jonny69]

I'm actually a bit shocked at 25 mpg. Her indoors' old one was a 2.0 auto on an R plate and I used to get 32-ish mpg round town and 42 mpg all day on a 70 mph motorway run. I was exceptionally disappointed when her replacement 3 year old Pug, more slippery in shape, lighter and smaller engine could not match it and will only do an average of 36-37 mpg on the same motorway run. I might be inclined to point the blame for poor fuel economy at heavy right foot. Try some lighter shoes first instead of lpg?

[meggersdog]

The link posted shows four plastic indirect injectors and the system's own ECU.I've owned quite a few classic Range Rovers and a fair few V8 Discoveries running on gas.Some have been single point some multi-point.The last Discovery 2 (2002 so modern enough) had similar plastic injectors and they were incredibly noisey.The system was fitted in 2005 so the injectors probably needed replacing.One thing the car did have,and it's worth considering for anyone running on gas, was a flash lube system.Basically it sucks a small amount of oil into the inlet manifold to lubricate the valves.

Regarding the backfire mentioned earlier,I've experienced this and it can blow plastics to pieces.Generally it's caused by old or the wrong sparkplugs.The 'plugs need to be of a higher heat range than standard and ideally changed every year.

Filling up can be a little scarey when the gas escapes but you get used to it.Just remember to keep clear of the nozzle when removing it.

The price quoted seems reasonable but there might be hidden extras as I think the Megane has a plastic inlet manifold.

I agree with most here though.Is it really worth investing in an AUTOMATIC Renault.Buying an already converted car and getting the system serviced properly might be a better bet.

[Bobthebeard]

A decent multi point LPG system is well worth doing IMHO if you do a big annual mileage and intend to keep the car for a couple of years. Our 2003 Honda Accord was converted last year at a cost of £1150 by a conversion place that has been around for years. 20,000 miles later all is still fine, although I have to buy Flashlube occasionally at £16 per litre.( Have used one and a half litres in 20,000 miles)

LPG is currently 69.9 pence per litre at our local Morrisons. Admittedly any business miles that Mrs Beard does is paid at petrol rates, 45p per mile, in our case. Even so, if enough miles are done, and the car is a good un that should last another year or three, why not?

 

Edit. The Honda did/does 34 mpg on petrol, and 32mpg on LPG (average). Although we do drive gently.

The feel good factor of filling up for £30 instead of £60 has never left me either!

[gtd2000]

Simply work out how many miles you need to drive to recuperate the cost.

 

Work out how much time it will take to drive that many miles....

 

Consider if your car will last that long and be worth making the financial investement.

 

Remember you are only saving money when the LPG conversion is paid off by fuel savings - not a penny is saved until that happens

 

I looked into doing an LPG conversion when I was working in NL and I calculated that I could pay it off within 7 months of driving - I should have done the conversion as I had the car for 2 years - but I was averaging between 38~44MPG (a Proton Persona 1.3 Si) and didn't really worry about the costs as I was getting a mileage allowance anyway.

[RichardMoss]

I'm not sure it's possible to LPG any vaguely modern stuff for a reasonable cost, there's a whole load of fancy engine management malarky that needs to be kept happy, and if something goes wrong and you get a backfire all manner of expensive plasticy engine bits could get shattered to buggery. You need to be pretty sure you'll be keeping the car for many years, and then there's always the risk of the gummint raising the price of gas to match petrol, like the paddies did.

 

I've put LPG kits on to MEMS and Honda equipped Rovers, also a couple of XJ40s and a Chrysler Voyager. Single point in each case, cheap and easy to do (one cost me £250 for all new kit from ebay and paid for itself in about 4,000 miles!). Put a backfire valve in to the plastic inlet manifold or the airbox and there is little chance of breaking anything.

 

I did the first one in 2004 - people were saying then "the price differential won't last" well it was 50% then and it's 50% now! Thank God that I ignored them

[gtd2000]

I've put LPG kits on to MEMS and Honda equipped Rovers, also a couple of XJ40s and a Chrysler Voyager. Single point in each case, cheap and easy to do (one cost me £250 for all new kit from ebay and paid for itself in about 4,000 miles!). Put a backfire valve in to the plastic inlet manifold or the airbox and there is little chance of breaking anything.

 

I did the first one in 2004 - people were saying then "the price differential won't last" well it was 50% then and it's 50% now! Thank God that I ignored them

 

This is the start of the srt of thing I'd like to hear more about.

 

Did you teach youself how to do this or is this already within your line of work/expertise?

 

Is running a car on LPG all it's cracked up to be or is it more problematic than one would want it to be?

[RichardMoss]

I did them myself - self taught (the first kit came with VERY comprehensive instructions). It's not my job - I'm a pilot by trade but car enthusiast by inclination.

In all honesty, it only requires basic mechanical skills (a bit of plumbing knowledge is handy) allied to some common sense and planning.

 

There's always a period of "adjustment" whilst getting a new install bedded in but in normal use there are no big issues. You may have to plan fuel stops but when you're saving 50% it's no hassle, especially thanks to the internet.

[Bobthebeard]

I've put LPG kits on to MEMS and Honda equipped Rovers, also a couple of XJ40s and a Chrysler Voyager. Single point in each case, cheap and easy to do (one cost me £250 for all new kit from ebay and paid for itself in about 4,000 miles!). Put a backfire valve in to the plastic inlet manifold or the airbox and there is little chance of breaking anything.

 

I did the first one in 2004 - people were saying then "the price differential won't last" well it was 50% then and it's 50% now! Thank God that I ignored them

 

This is the start of the srt of thing I'd like to hear more about.

 

Did you teach youself how to do this or is this already within your line of work/expertise?

 

Is running a car on LPG all it's cracked up to be or is it more problematic than one would want it to be?

 

In my case, 2003 Honda Accord running a sequential multi point LPG system, there is absolutely no noticeable difference. The LPG system is fully automatic, switches from petrol to LPG once the coolant reaches 40 degrees C. Can be switched between petrol and LPG at the touch of a button. What's not to like? The only issue is that Mrs Beard can't work the LPG filler nozzle thingy, but that is just because she is a mechanical duffer...

[dollywobbler]

Richard - do you declare the 'mod' to your insurance and are they iffy about it?

[Junkman]

Petrol is expensive, trying to save petrol is even more expensive.

 

I had a LPG 3.9 EFI Range and it was the most miserable experience this side of a Diesel.

Despite the thing had two tanks, it had a range of less than 200 miles on gas, and even this only on long distance trips.

You had to fill it more often than you needed to stop for a piss. Every journey had to be carefully planned, so you didn't miss a station that sells LPG.

My wife never mastered the art of filling it up, so this chore was left to me at least once a week.

The asthmatic V8 performed even worse on LPG, effectively rendering the accelerator pedal redundant. A toggle switch would have done.

 

Shortly after we had bought the thing, every station around here phased out LPG, so we had to get the stuff from a company that sells all kinds of industrial gases, conveniently located in Dystopia. They didn't accept debit or credit cards and their yard wasn't paved, there was no roof above where you had to fill the gas, which made the ordeal especially pleasing when it rained, i.e. every time. This may be the real reason why my wife remained unable to fill it up.

However, having seen other facilities that sell LPG, this was still one of the better ones in comparison. Profound Third-World experience is a must if you want to drive LPG-powered up and down the country.

 

In the end, we only ran it on petrol. It performed a lot better, needed a lot less per driven mile, and considering how much we drove it, the cost of the gas install never ever would have amortised.

 

My verdict: The price of a litre of petrol: £1.40. The addition to your quality of life by driving a petrol automatic: Priceless.

[brickwall]

There are a good number of cars out there now that have been converted. just check the cert and get the LPG seviced at some point.

[RichardMoss]

Richard - do you declare the 'mod' to your insurance and are they iffy about it?

You can have it inspected and the inspector will issue a certificate of compliance with the standards laid down in the LPGA code of practice. you may have to hunt around for an LPG friendly insurance company but usually they are OK if you have the certificate.