Banger Racing. Not the stolen to race thread.

[Tonka]

This is probably the most convincing defence of what is often seen as the indefensible that I've heard.

 

 

Seriously though, are we talking about a clash of cultures here or one hobby trying to out-do another?

 

Surely banger racing has been around a lot longer than today's classic/retro car scene, even 20 years ago some highly desirable models were still just a ton and a half of scrap to most people and to get raced was a better fate than going straight to the crusher.

 

The bottom line is you can't Police the sale of old cars, if Joe Bloggs wants to sell his tatty car for £500 and the Hi-ab driver offers £500 it becomes his property to do with how he wishes, on a personal note I would love to buy up all the Jago's that sell for less than £1000 to stop them feeding the Classic Ford breaking business but I can't so don't bleat on about it every time a stripped body/chassis appears on Ebay however I do know that over time it will push the price up which is good for owners and eventually the breakers will have to look elsewhere as the potential profit margin gets eaten into.

 

If you look upon your classic as an investment then reduced numbers improves your long term gains.........however much you may detest this route, ultimately you will benefit.

 

Maybe we should organise a trip to a pre-68 meet where they have a classic car parade...............

[Justin Case]

B***** the decaffinated Rover P5Bs, bring back the real thing:

 

 

This video is brought to you by the Campaign for Real Banger Racing

[mk1_4dr]

This is probably the most convincing defence of what is often seen as the indefensible that I've heard.

 

 

Seriously though, are we talking about a clash of cultures here or one hobby trying to out-do another?

.

.

.

 

Maybe we should organise a trip to a pre-68 meet where they have a classic car parade...............

 

Having never actually attended a banger meet I can't say how I feel about it other than my gut feeling, which basically echos what has already been said.

If Mk3 mondeo's make such decent bangers, why is there any need to derby anything of any worth? (where 'worth' is directly linked to whether something is saveble)

 

When you hear stories such as the kid with the XK150, as rough as it was it was also worth proper money, and yet he would rather rag it for 2 laps then be followed in by a mk2 Granada.

 

I simply don't get it, but then, that doesn't mean its in any way wrong.

 

I wonder how long before Godwins law is invoked....

[CortinaDave]

Potentially stupid question time...

 

Is there much banger activity in Scotland?

 

I've never been aware of there being much truck with it up here. You don't seem to hear of old cars getting nicked off driveways by pikey types with hiabs (or even bought legitimately for banger-ing), it might just be my sheltered life but is there much activity away from the SE of England?

 

Oh yes. theres a prolific banger community with a well used track near me (Cowdenbeath). The local racers have had a keen eye on my MK4 Cortina 2.0S for a while now. Not to say they've tried to nick it, but I've had over a dozen knocks on the door from folk wanting to race it, which annoys me knowing A) its very tidy and how rare a Cortina S is these days, (There's less than a dozen apparently left), but they'd happily smash it up for half an hour's glory on the track they could just as easily get from an R Reg Vectra.

 

I'm totally FOR banger racing - IF its genuinely ten - 15 year old shitters that get used. I can't see what point there is at all in smashing up rare classics other than to shock/wind up restorers. I used to go watch the races at Cowdenbeath but since its become more and more classic orientated I've stopped going as it just annoys me to see what in my mind is waste.

 

Where it gets really annoying is that Mk3 Cortinas have a strong following and are at the point now where they're more or less out of my price range and even ropey low spec ones seem to fetch £1500 plus on ebay, yet they still turn up regularly on the track. Seems to me racers must have more money than sense...

[freebird]

Ok, I humbly apologise for starting this bloody thread, its all my fault.

Ive been on two one make forums since Ive really got into "classic cars" and, its just my observation, what is blindingly apparent is that there are two types of owner.The first is the person that I envy, the chap that has the fabrication, spannering and welding skills to take on absolutely any pile of crud because he has spent eons owning the model. learning and getting to the point where the word "expert" doesnt do them justice.

The second one is the enthusiastic amateur, people like me, who get into the marque, learn as they go and either aquire the skills like the first chap, over a long, long period of time, or never attain the standard that allows them to rebuild something from the ground up.

I think its true to say that the first person is in the minority and the second person,well, there is bloody loads of us.

In my time on forums, admittedly not as long as some, ive seen shit loads of "projects" up for sale and precious few have made it back onto the road.

Now that may well be because the cars are plentiful and you can by a runner without buying a project BUT it is indicative of the movement as a whole.

Too many projects and not enough skilled enthusiasts to take them on.

A few days ago I posted up that 2000E which was being sold as a restoration. What are the chances of that car making it back onto the road again?

There is a chance that somebody like me, whos enthusiasm is greater than their talent, will buy it, get it home where it will sit in the garage or on the drive under a tarpaulin for six months while somebody thinks " WTF have I took on?" They will look at the mass of wires, try to discover what they actually have or not and, more than likely decide to move it on.

It would need a Blue Oval lover and somebody very skilled or very patient to get that car an MOT let alone to a good standard.

Im not saying that this is the case for all classics/clubs/members but its a pretty good yardstick in the thinking of how so many classics end up on the track.

The seller is not going to wait for a new ice age until a restorer comes along and pays him what he wants, infact, if there is a beef to be had for seeing four figure sums change hands for old cars then, surely, the beef is with the seller? Are they being greedy? Are they not enthusiasts to the marque that they are selling? Have they not contacted the relevent owners clubs to make it known that they have the car for sale?

I love Woseley 6/110s, my uncle had an ex police one back in the mid 70s, id LOVE to own one but, alas, unless I can sell a kidney to a Russian Oligarch on a dialysis machine, the only kind Im ever going to be able to afford will be a complete basket case that will be beyond my skills to bring back to life.

I cant,for the life of me, feel bitter about that, I just have to accept that I am in the absolute majority of car lovers who simply cannot buy what is beyond salvation and, yes, the majority of old stuff is beyond reasonable salvation.

Their destruction isnt nice to see, id rather not thanks, but I cant go ape over it because I know the reality.

Anyway, just when you think there cant be anymore of a marque left out there the banger fraternity seem to turn them up. What do they know that the rest us us dont, eh?

[Wilko220]

Regardless of rights and wrongs of banger racing, on a personal basis, I've never really seen the attraction in destroying things for pleasure

 

This.

 

The bottom line is that this is a forum for people who wish to preserve interesting and unappreciated old cars. Don't be surprised if you come on here trying to defend classic banger racing and get a negative reaction.

[sawdustman]

Something I've always wondered - Is there a non-oval banger track somewhere in the UK? apart from Buxton's figure 8 track.

I used to go to the odd meeting but got bored of seeing them all in 3rd gear every race. Even if Buxton used half its figure 8 and had a kidney shaped layout.

 

For the record, I always generally preferred the hot rods/rookirods/non-contact-but-without-the-big-daft-roof-spoiler formulas. racing rather than crashing basically.

[Albert Ross]

As for the new/old debate... there is a certain "big bollocks" cachet to having the rustiest heap of ventilated shit out there. As long as it passes "scrutineering" it can race. You see some REALLY frilly crap out there, and it's an unofficial club, as it were, to turn up with it, race it, and survive. Where's the fun in being safe with 5* NCAP bodyshells and side impact bars? It's about risk/danger/copping off in the recovery truck with Shaz or Trace in the Gold Leopardskin onesie....... while your mate looks after her sprogs with a poorly aimed ice-cream.

[freebird]

Regardless of rights and wrongs of banger racing, on a personal basis, I've never really seen the attraction in destroying things for pleasure

 

This.

 

The bottom line is that this is a forum for people who wish to preserve interesting and unappreciated old cars. Don't be surprised if you come on here trying to defend classic banger racing and get a negative reaction.

Oh, I dunno, it hasnt been universally slated on here, although Id concede that the pro Banger lobby is severely concussed at the mo...

I did start the thread to ellicit some memories of Banger racing past and present. It wasnt about Banger racing old classics, the vast majority of cars going round the oval are more modern, as in Triggers picture.

Clearly, people wanted to take it elsewhere.

I sort of feel like ive been bent over and f****d up the a**e with a rusty Polonez.

That will teach me.

[2door]

i have supplied loads of rusty cars for racing and classics all beyond repair with the floor welded up and a coat of paint they look like they would go again as classics on the road but they are knackered its shows what you can do with a bit of gloss and tin sheet or angle iron but most of the so called classic owners dont even bother to to come and look when they are for sale or parts are offered or they want it all for nothing because they think they have a wright to because they are in the owners club, lets see who wants this then VANDEN PLAS 4 LITRE R, DRY STORED SINCE 1979,ORIGINAL CILLS,GOOD INNER WINGS,ENGINE TURNS GOOD INTERIOR AND WOOD,PAINT FADED WOULD POLISH UP......SO STOP MOANING AND COME AND BUY IT........£1500,07702031268

[Cavcraft]

Hey, Freebird, not everybody wanted your thread taking elsewhere. If it can stay civilised it's enjoyable, not everyone hates the sport.

 

2Door: You're not really doing yourself any favours there. I've seen this stock (no pun intended) reply before where a racer offers a car for sale then half an hour later starts whining that no classic car will buy it so it might as well be raced. Who is going to buy your VDP on the strength of a half arsed, ranty 'advert' like that? I suspect you're one of the tiny minority who go searching for threads like this on the web, assume everyone hates banger racing/racers, then you get all aeriated.

You're just fanning the flames there imho, and it won't help this debate at all.

 

*Sills, not 'cills'.

[Lankytim]

I was going to keep out of this but as a keen banger fan and an ex racer I feel I should comment.

 

First of all, those who say banger racing doesn't require any skill on the part of the driver obviously haven't grasped what banger racing is all about. The object is to cover a set amount of laps in the shortest time and finish first just like any other sort of racing, however with banger racing you can push and spin the opposition out of the way to gain an advantage. It's fantastic fun. Naturally NOOB competitors and those who just lack any sort of skill (such as me) race but they become easy prey for the more seasoned and skilled competitors.

 

Apart from being fun, banger racing allows racers to work on a variety of shit old cars, old and not so old. Building and racing bangers taught me everything I know about how cars work and how to fix them. It's very educational!

 

Those involved in banger racing have good connection within shite/scrap circles and are regularly offered unusual or rare cars for racing. Many classics that are raced come from scrap dealers who have collected them for scrap after they have been standing for years in a garden or dragged them out of a semi collapsed garage following a bereavement house clearance. There's no question of them ever seeing the road again, banger racing is simply a diversion before they end up in the crusher. 99% of what you see raced are just rotted out shitters. Drivers spend many hours welding them up to make them raceable, gaffer tape and a good paint job can make them appear immaculate. Of course some solid cars get raced and big money can change hands for something more exotic than an A60, but this isn't the norm.

 

OBV these old and weird cars don't really stand a chance against modern motors such as Mondeo's as they are much slower and would last a few laps before being destroyed, hence classic banger meetings are organised to allow drivers to race any ancient old chod they have in stock on a level playing field.

 

I know many folk on here will never understand why people want to race around and wreck old cars and I don't expect to convert them but banger racing is not just a case of rigger boot wearing, brainless chavs destroying immaculate antiques.

 

Anyway, that's my piece said!

[SambaS]

 

 

http://www.carandclassic.co.uk/car/C355369

 

i have supplied loads of rusty cars for racing and classics all beyond repair with the floor welded up and a coat of paint they look like they would go again as classics on the road but they are knackered its shows what you can do with a bit of gloss and tin sheet or angle iron but most of the so called classic owners dont even bother to to come and look when they are for sale or parts are offered or they want it all for nothing because they think they have a wright to because they are in the owners club, lets see who wants this then VANDEN PLAS 4 LITRE R, DRY STORED SINCE 1979,ORIGINAL CILLS,GOOD INNER WINGS,ENGINE TURNS GOOD INTERIOR AND WOOD,PAINT FADED WOULD POLISH UP......SO STOP MOANING AND COME AND BUY IT........£1500,07702031268

[dollywobbler]

i have supplied loads of rusty cars for racing and classics all beyond repair with the floor welded up and a coat of paint they look like they would go again as classics on the road but they are knackered its shows what you can do with a bit of gloss and tin sheet or angle iron but most of the so called classic owners dont even bother to to come and look when they are for sale or parts are offered or they want it all for nothing because they think they have a wright to because they are in the owners club, lets see who wants this then VANDEN PLAS 4 LITRE R, DRY STORED SINCE 1979,ORIGINAL CILLS,GOOD INNER WINGS,ENGINE TURNS GOOD INTERIOR AND WOOD,PAINT FADED WOULD POLISH UP......SO STOP MOANING AND COME AND BUY IT........£1500,07702031268

 

Oh dear. I feel very sorry for Freebird. This does the cause no good at all. Perhaps people don't want to come and look because they're having trouble understanding you.

 

Though it must be said that your asking price is about on the money to be fair. A similar car sold at auction recently for around that.

[ShiteRider]

To answer the question of where they find all the classics, the reality is a lot of racers work in the scrap trade/motor trade so what

they are racing are cars that have already been disposed of.

I've restored a good few cars over the years, both for myself and for work. I currently own two (problematic) mk5 cortinas if i hadn't stepped in and bought them they could of been bangered eventually......but far more likley the would of been stripped for parts.

There's a very tidy looking mk4 cortina on buysellcortina at the moment, being advertised by a banger racer. He racing the car but has offered the panels on an exchange basis and is selling pretty much everything bar the rolling shell.

There hasn't been any massive kick off yet about it most people on there are just happy for a source of cheap parts (seeing as everything before 1990 with a blue oval on it now costs a fucking fortune).

Is this not an ideal solution? to be fair i'm suprised he bothered. If racers are going to be constantly slated as thieving cunts, why are people suprised that more of them don't do this.

As has been said before on this thread the biggest killer of classic cars are the naive/unskilled/ebay mongs who buy a car, get all exicted and rip the fucker apart then realise they don't know what they're doing.

From a cortina point of view a lot of the cars at the cheaper end of the market are bought by enthusiasts...........it's just they then get raped for parts.

[Mr_Bo11ox]

i have supplied loads of rusty cars for racing and classics all beyond repair with the floor welded up and a coat of paint they look like they would go again as classics on the road but they are knackered its shows what you can do with a bit of gloss and tin sheet or angle iron but most of the so called classic owners dont even bother to to come and look when they are for sale or parts are offered or they want it all for nothing because they think they have a wright to because they are in the owners club, lets see who wants this then VANDEN PLAS 4 LITRE R, DRY STORED SINCE 1979,ORIGINAL CILLS,GOOD INNER WINGS,ENGINE TURNS GOOD INTERIOR AND WOOD,PAINT FADED WOULD POLISH UP......SO STOP MOANING AND COME AND BUY IT........£1500,07702031268

 

Oh dear. I feel very sorry for Freebird. This does the cause no good at all. Perhaps people don't want to come and look because they're having trouble understanding you.

 

Though it must be said that your asking price is about on the money to be fair. A similar car sold at auction recently for around that.

 

Seems pretty clear to me TBH

[Timewaster]

Assuming the racers pay for the cars, then they can do whatever they like with them.

 

I used to watch bangers as a kid, but I haven't been for a few years mainly because when you have seen one race, you have seen them all and the track suited clientele mentioned elsewhere.

 

Each to their own but a banger racing thread on here would be like a favorite sausage thread on a vegan forum. Its all about food the same as we are all bout worthless cars.

 

Fair play for giving it a go though.

[freebird]

 

 

http://www.carandclassic.co.uk/car/C355369

 

i have supplied loads of rusty cars for racing and classics all beyond repair with the floor welded up and a coat of paint they look like they would go again as classics on the road but they are knackered its shows what you can do with a bit of gloss and tin sheet or angle iron but most of the so called classic owners dont even bother to to come and look when they are for sale or parts are offered or they want it all for nothing because they think they have a wright to because they are in the owners club, lets see who wants this then VANDEN PLAS 4 LITRE R, DRY STORED SINCE 1979,ORIGINAL CILLS,GOOD INNER WINGS,ENGINE TURNS GOOD INTERIOR AND WOOD,PAINT FADED WOULD POLISH UP......SO STOP MOANING AND COME AND BUY IT........£1500,07702031268

Maybe this is the case in point.The car has been advertised on C&C since the end of December and, something like five weeks later its still for fucking sale!!

On the basis that we all agree that it is a rare beast and the O.C must have at least one member that is computer literate and could type the bloody make into Google and...

If its still sitting in his yard come April, will he get flamed for stripping it and taking it round the oval?

Come on, whose got £1500 and the skills to save it?

I aint.

[autofive]

couple of points regarding the VP

 

1. december / january /february are not the best months to sell a classic car

 

2. photos are crap, description is crap

 

3. if you cant be arsed to put in the effort you not going to sell a 1.5k specialised classic car

[freebird]

couple of points regarding the VP

 

1. december / january /february are not the best months to sell a classic car

 

2. photos are crap, description is crap

 

3. if you cant be arsed to put in the effort you not going to sell a 1.5k specialised classic car

All those points are fair but on the other hand its not an Allegro.If the car is that rare somebody will bother to make the first move to find out more.

Its either rare enough to make the effort to enquire about buying or its not, the seller clearly doesnt give a shit if it sells to a restorer or a banger, thats obvious, right?

Anyway..

We will all go dizzy going round and round in circles.

[Wilko220]

As Autofive said, that is not a real effort to sell a £1.5k car. It's a pisspoor effort which is set up to fail.

[Albert Ross]

I fancy an engine and 'box from one of these, to try and squeeze it into a LR 109". It's the 4 litre IOEV unit right? Or is it the Austin Commercial OHV unit?

[autofive]

i thought it was a 4.2 litre rolls royce motor

[warren t claim]

Has anyone got any more pics of Gail Tilsley's tits?

[freebird]

As Autofive said, that is not a real effort to sell a £1.5k car. It's a pisspoor effort which is set up to fail.

Fuck it, I said i wouldnt but...

I agree, its a piss poor effort and Ive alluded to that by saying that he doesnt give a shit who he sells it to.

C&C is one of the biggest classic car websites for buyers, ive used it and you can bet your life 99% of the members of this place have had a good look through it to.

It is an absolute certainty that that car has had multiple viewings, you only need to type in an era and a price on that site and that car WILL have been on there.

Look, its not an FSO or a Maxi or any other kind of old chod, its a 4 litre Rolls Royce engine luxury car that in good nick will make very good money.

His lack of effort is blindingly obvious but for that type of car you would make the effort to e'mail him, surely!

If it turned out to be wank, fair enough but it COULD be a bloody bargain.

I cannot believe that somebody wouldnt even bother to ask for more info on that car because the photos are shonky and the text has been dictated by an Orangutan, that would be cutting your balls of to spite your penis.

[freebird]

Has anyone got any more pics of Gail Tilsley's tits?

Yes.

I will send them if you promise to send me a pic of you being fisted by Keith Chegwin.

Fair swap?

[Albert Ross]

3909cc IOEV Rolls FB60 unit apparently. 175 bhp, 218lb/ft of torque. Might make for a nice cruiser. Wonder which gearbox to use....

[freebird]

3909cc IOEV Rolls FB60 unit apparently. 175 bhp, 218lb/ft of torque. Might make for a nice cruiser. Wonder which gearbox to use....

Were they not the same engine that was used in the Austin Champ?

Just an idea.

Edit: They did but not the 4ltr one.

[Albert Ross]

No, that was the B40, an OHV unit IIRC, and 4 cylinder. (Correction, also side exhaust) F in the FB60, means "F" head, suggesting a sidevalve exhaust. 60 is a 6 cylinder.... 40 is, well, 4.... I believe the FB60 is also all aluminium.

[freebird]

No, that was the B40, an OHV unit IIRC, and 4 cylinder. F in the FB60, means "F" head, suggesting a sidevalve exhaust. 60 is a 6 cylinder.... 40 is, well, 4....

That just went over my head like the Red Arrows

I shall leave you to scratch your chin, im only capable of scratching me balls im afraid.

Sounds like a plan anyway, go for it!