Legal/ Speeding Question

[Cheggers]

After an unblemished 30-year driving career, I have managed to pick up my second speeding ticket in 4 weeks (34 in a 30 and 36 in a 30, both static cameras)

 

As I usually drive like an old woman, I declined the offer of an awareness course first time and took the points like a man. Does anyone know if I'm likely to be offered the course rather than points for the second offence??

 

*not that this has any bearing on whether it was me or Mrs Chegg that was driving

[Pillock]

Edit: Read the question properly, pillock!!!

 

Yes, you can do the awareness course if you didn't do it the first time. Once you do it, you're then flagged as completing it and you won't get offered again.

 

Getting a ticket for 34 in a 30 is a bit harsh though, most forces seem to operate the 110% + 3mph rule.... so in a 30 you can do (110% of 30mph = 33mph plus 3mph) 36mph without getting a tug. 37mph sees you getting your wallet out. I was a passenger in a car pulled over at 47 in a 40 in Nottingham, and the officer said the same thing - 1mph more and it would have been a ticket.

[Cheggers]

Bumhats.

 

Thanks Pillock. I'm pretty sure a real, live copper wouldn't have nicked me or possibly even stopped me for at least the first one. Sadly these were both Gatso's so no room for discretion I guess.

 

Frightening really, as I've always considers myself a safe driver but am now half-way to a license-losing 12 points

[DSdriver]

Its worth putting the details on here:

http://www.pepipoo.com/

They will give you expert advice as to whether it is worth doing anything other than paying up. £90 for the awareness course is money well spent because it doesn't affect your insurance premiums which would increase if you get points on your licence.

[Andrew353w]

As the events I am about to recall took place in 2005-6 I do not expect the "boys in blue" to come a-calling....

 

My Father passed away in March 2005. He had lived near Bristol until his death & my brother and I were appointed executors of his estate. We both lived (and still live) in London & so commuted up & down the M4 fairly regularly, to clear his home & administer to his affairs etc etc. Dad's car was a 52 reg Polo, which we used for moving stuff from the house to London & to other places. We BLATTED that little Polo up & down the M4 and in doing so accumulated enough points to be disqualified..... But as the letters were sent to a man who had died (and whose death was certified by the Registrar) there was no further action taken. Morally wrong, I'm sure, but legally no further action could be taken.

 

The car was later sold and the value added to my Father's estate for calculating death duties. As I happen to know to whom the car was sold I know nothing more was heard from Doovla re: previous speeding tickets....

 

Glad I've got this off my chest, as it has worried me for some time.....

[Pillock]

Interestingly, the speed awareness course is run on a per-force basis. My GF's dad got caught speeding in Newark, on the A46, and took the course. Not too many weeks later, got caught speeding on the A46, about two miles further up, but in Lincolnshire. Took the speed awareness course, no points gained.

 

On a related note, I need to clear up a myth which I'm guilty of promoting as TEH TRUTH. Those gantry-mounted cameras on motorways (I'm talking about the M1 between 28 and 25, but I bet it applies to others) I've always been told, and believed to be, are only operative when there's a variable limit in place - if the matrix signs are off, then the cameras are switched off. The chap who hooned it past me at J26 will no doubt be getting a letter in the post disproving this myth as I saw the double-flash in my mirror, there was no variable limit in place and hadn't been for the whole journey. Just so you all know

[DSdriver]

Give it another couple of years and we'll be back to driving with a bloke walking front waving a red flag. This, we will be told, is very good for the flag making industry.

[dieselnutjob]

the cameras on the M25 seem to go off above about 80ish mph even if there is no variable speed limit on

[cobblers]

Interestingly, the speed awareness course is run on a per-force basis. My GF's dad got caught speeding in Newark, on the A46, and took the course. Not too many weeks later, got caught speeding on the A46, about two miles further up, but in Lincolnshire. Took the speed awareness course, no points gained.

 

There's a national "speed awareness course scheme" thing that most forces are members of, if you take a course in one of them they log the data so you won't be offered another. A few forces run their own scheme and don't share the data, but the vast majority run the national scheme.

[HillmanImp]

the cameras on the M25 seem to go off above about 80ish mph even if there is no variable speed limit on

 

Are there cameras on the M25? Whereabouts? I have never seen any and never been caught? However I have not driven it a lot in recent years.

[dieselnutjob]

the four lane bit from about 18 to 23 or so

[DSdriver]

Also by the Dartford crossing which is not technically M25.

[Morgan84]

Which 'offence' did they nab you for first as I know there is meant to be the 10% over the limit speedometer allowance for error,but some forces then 'allow' a certain small amount over before issuing a penalty. It's worth asking what your local police authoritys guidelines are as 34 sounds pretty stingy to me; have you been issued a penalty you shouldn't have perhaps ?

[pandarus]

I had to do the course about 2 years ago after being snapped by a static cam on the infamous A140 doing 44 in a 40. It was boxing day too.

 

Like you, I rarely speed - when I do it's usually by accident.

 

I did the course which actually wasn't too bad and I learned lots. However, I couldn't help but note how much money this must be generating...I was on the 3rd course of the day and they had two classes at a time. At stg 80 a pop, you can see that this is probably more than paying for itself.

[Richard]

That's three examples in this thread where the much quoted "10% + 3" theory has failed, I always did have my doubts about it.

[robinmasters]

The amount of leeway they give you is entirely discretionary. ACPO guidelines suggest allowing 10% + 3mph, but they can nab you for 31 in a 30 if they're a bit skint.

[Caffiend]

That's three examples in this thread where the much quoted "10% + 3" theory has failed, I always did have my doubts about it.

You can add Bedfordshire to that list. 36 in a 30, off to do my course 22 November. Most annoying.

[Morgan84]

So it's really only the 10% you can hope for,so as i see it

30-33

40-44

50-55

60-66

70-77

 

Yet if you drive a white or silver car with a blue flashing light,you can drive like a prat,force people out of they way and cause a accident in some cases and go unpunished for reckless behavior !

[Chip]

Don't be tempted to use "10% + 3" as a guide to how fast you can drive - it's there to account for speedometer accuracy. Those things are only so accurate, and are mass produced, after all.

[Pillock]

I tend to not worry too much if I drift over the limit by a few mph, and I usually drive by satnav speed rather than speedo speed - at actual 70mph, my speedo is reading 75mph, so if I drift up to an indicated 80mph then that's only really actually 74 or so. Normally the cruise gets banged on at an indicated 75 though which is not going to get me done on any camera.

[Cavcraft]

The amount of leeway they give you is entirely discretionary. ACPO guidelines suggest allowing 10% + 3mph, but they can nab you for 31 in a 30 if they're a bit skint.

 

This. I'm sure if you got the wrong copper on the wrong day that 32mph could see you nicked.

[Morgan84]

The amount of leeway they give you is entirely discretionary. ACPO guidelines suggest allowing 10% + 3mph, but they can nab you for 31 in a 30 if they're a bit skint.

 

This. I'm sure if you got the wrong copper on the wrong day that 32mph could see you nicked.

 

Challenge them in court and see what happens is what I would say if they were so petty

[Dr Mike Oxgreen]

Challenge them in court and see what happens is what I would say if they were so petty

Speeding is an absolute offence, which means that it is not open to interpretation. If the evidence shows that you were doing 31 in a 30, then I'm afraid your challenge won't get very far.

[Conrad D. Conelrad]

My grandfather was done for 32 in a 30.

[Morgan84]

32 in a 30 ? That means the 10% margin for error wasn't applied .... Bastards

[jonny69]

Were you really doing 34mph, like really really doing 34 or were you actually standing on the brake with both feet and happened to sail through the camera at 34mph on your way down from a child-killing 37mph in that 30 zone?

[Guest]

Avoid peepoopottybum, it's full of barrack room ranters.

[dieselnutjob]

I always thought that 77 was pretty safe on a motorway, but last year I came up behind a bunch of cars on the M1 who were all following a Police car that was doing exactly 70mph. This was late at night.

 

I thought this was all pretty silly so sailed past at 76 on cruise control, speed verified by GPS.

 

The copper pulled out and followed me for miles and miles before suddenly speeding up and disappearing off into the distance.

 

Another time a police car was doing exactly 40mph down the A40 through Hanger Lane area and causing a huge convoy to build up behind him. Again I thought it would be okay to gently overtake him at say 42mph, but this caused him to wind down his window and start madly jesticulating, so I thought better off it and just drove along next to him at 40mph.

 

Clearly some Policemen (just like any other profession I suppose) are just total morons and get upset by people breaking the limit by even just a couple of mph.

 

Funny how they don't seem to give a rats arse about people speeding up and down my residential street at mach 2.5. The are no kids playing or mums with toddlers, or people trying to reverse off their drive on the A40 no the M1. If they set up a speed trap in my street they will get just as many tickets I think.

[Cheggers]

Were you really doing 34mph, like really really doing 34 or were you actually standing on the brake with both feet and happened to sail through the camera at 34mph on your way down from a child-killing 37mph in that 30 zone?

 

Surprising as it sounds, I was genuinely doing 34

[AnthonyG]

I can't imagine those M25 gantry cameras (or the M6/M42 ones around Brum for that matter) trigger at 77 or whatever when the variables are off, as they would never stop flashing, but can well imagine they trigger at 85 or 90 though.

 

I once caned it along that stretch of the M25 when the gantries were new to catch a plane, went under several at 95-100 late at night (this was in the late 90s when I was still young and foolish) and never noticed any flashes or heard from anybody about it.

 

But the camera technology has moved on a lot since then. Plus I wouldn't drive like that these days - my licence is worth too much to me, and a billion times more than a easyjet ticket!!