Probably not worth reading this - as you were...

[Mike D]

http://www.the-ace.org.uk/armageddon/

 

This needs a serious read and action by all of us - the future is not bright!

[pompei]

This is a serious problem in Italy - non standard/modified cars cannot be driven on the roads. A bloke I know has a Fiat 500 with an Alfasud engine. He has retired to Italy but won't be able to drive this car. I believe that this is from EU law rather than domestic Italian law. I am told that the EU want this to be implemented throughout the Union.

[dollywobbler]

That is concerning. That definition would probably mean my 2CV is incorrect as the chassis, bumpers, seats and indicator warning light are all modifications. Would changes to the engine include ignition components?

 

I can see this being exactly the sort of thing that the FBHVC won't care about as rather too many classic folks seem to think all cars SHOULD be entirely standard. Probably the same people who then fit modern indicator systems or those stupid headlamp peaks...

[Mike D]

It certainly needs every one of us in this hobby to do something - none of my vehicles would come out in any good way at all if this came in!

[Micrashed]

How far do they take it though?

My K11 has a non standard towbar, so does the C8. The K11 has non standard wheeltrims... I mean come on? Surely roadworthyness does not hinge on whether a car is exactly the same as it was when it rolled out of the factory?

[trigger]

Wouldn't almost everybody with a old car be affected?, even old boys with their pristine TR6's and Stags, how many of them have electric ignitions and non standard wheels fitted, Fuck the EU!

 

Christ I have electronic ignition and Rostyles fitted which aren't standard.

[RedSparrow]

Hmm. So, my TR7. Has a dolly sprint engine (not engine rape btw!), would that be close enough to the original 2 litre lump to avoid this bollocks? I can see a lot of grey areas here. Gonna be costly to enforce!

[warren t claim]

If for arguments sake, you upgraded a dynamo equipped mk1 Escort with an alternator from a higher specced model it would make the car unroadworthy?

[Wilko220]

Totally unenforceable for the most part - I shouldn't think most of us need to worry very much at all.

 

If it gets a few 'stanced' yo death traps off the road though, then it will not be entirely without merit.

[DSdriver]

If FBHVC and government are not interested they should be. The classic car industry is a fairly large revenue earner keeping a lot of people employed in this country. Are they going to chuck it all down the pan because people have fitted an electronic distributor to make their cars more reliable?

[SambaS]

Hmmmmmmm. There's going to be some rite machines hitting eBay soon! If there is any substance in the claims. Put me down for a 600bhp Cossie. And maybe a Hayabusa Turbo'd Metro. And that Lotus Lada Top Gear had built. What will RR do?

[Mike D]

It will affect a LOT of people - I don't really know how far it would spread - and at what cost? The A.C.E are a good group of people, they've beeen working very hard to bring some sensibility with the new IVA / BIVA rules, so I'm sure they will be going hell for leather to stop this ridiculousness - they will need our support though

[dollywobbler]

Totally unenforceable for the most part - I shouldn't think most of us need to worry very much at all.

 

If it gets a few 'stanced' yo death traps off the road though, then it will not be entirely without merit.

 

The problem is Wilko, this stuff is always aimed at the extreme examples, without fully realising the consequences it has on those who haven't really done anything wrong. It's like the stupid SORN system. Makes life a nightmare for the innocent motorist and does absolutely nothing to stop people driving around with no tax. They just find a new way to evade the law.

[rml2345]

This "proposal" sounds completely daft anyway. How are they going to enforce it? More to the point, how would VOSA or the average MOT bod know you've made a modification unless it's really obvious. Are they going to check the factory spec. for every car they see?

Mine has some aftermarket spot lamps and a later model radio fitted... Does that count?

[Wilko220]

@dolly

 

I'm certainly not saying I agree with it - I just can't see this being brought in in the form suggested. Are MOT centres going to keep details of every possible factory spec of every car ever made?! It could never be enforced.

[morris_ital_lover]

It is indeed a lovely piece of Brussels based crap that needs to be stopped... the best way to do this is to find any/all people who can have an influence on the legislation, pool their details and make your view known in a polite but firm way.

 

As others have pointed out support from the FBHVC can't be counted on and when previous problems re. modified/new cars have arisen Lord Beaulieu has been as much use as a chocolate teacup seeing as he seems to think that only cars built before 1960 which are totally standard warrant saving. This legislation is rubbish as well as being ridiculous seeing as fitting better lights, brakes etc would seem to be ensnared despite being safer.

[Mike D]

The thing is - it shouldnt be illegal to make a really obvious modification! I have made plenty to the majority of my cars - be it lowering or alloy wheels.. I know a few on here don't like that sort of thing, however I do - It's my car and I should be able to do as I please with it.. this kicks that freedom well into touch. NOT GOOD.

[Mr Lobster]

I'm a bit confused by this.

 

Certainly having a quick skim through the ACE stuff makes alarming reading. There was a thing on this on the front of CCW last week that was all alarmist but inside said that only vehicles under 30 would have to be original and that in any case as long as replacement parts had type approval / TUV approved or whatever then there wasn't any problem. It was more to stop cheap none approved pattern parts being fitted.

 

I just don't see how it would be possible to inspect for everything to be as it left the factory unless the MOT becomes a week long job costing £1k.

 

For example, how on earth would a tester know that the carb on my R4 has been swapped for an R5 carb - there isn't much visual difference and only an anorak would actually be able to tell.

[Wilko220]

OMG. I hope Feu air fresheners, fluffy dice and comedy dust caps don't count.

[RedSparrow]

Just remembered Ive got Princess brakes too. And a later 5speed box. Im fucked.

Despite the brakes from another car making it a lot safer.

[trigger]

“(7) ‘vehicle of historic interest’ means any vehicle which fulfils all the following conditions :

•It was manufactured at least 30 years ago,

•It is maintained by use of replacement parts which reproduce the historic components of the vehicle;

•It has not sustained any change in the technical characteristics of its main components such as engine, brakes, steering or suspension and

•It has not been changed in its appearance;

 

Basically that tells me that any car older then 1982 needs to still be fitted with original parts (even serviceable parts?) never had any upgrades, I.e better brakes, exhaust or lowered etc and still look totally standard, that's going to be one hell of a law to prove.

[eddyramrod]

the MOT becomes a week long job costing £1k.

 

Show me anyone In Power for whom that would be any sort of consideration. They won't care about stuff like that, nor about the decimation of support industries.

[Mr Lobster]

“(7) ‘vehicle of historic interest’ means any vehicle which fulfils all the following conditions :

•It was manufactured at least 30 years ago,

•It is maintained by use of replacement parts which reproduce the historic components of the vehicle;

•It has not sustained any change in the technical characteristics of its main components such as engine, brakes, steering or suspension and

•It has not been changed in its appearance;

 

Basically that tells me that any car older then 1982 needs to still be fitted with original parts (even serviceable parts?) never had any upgrades, I.e better brakes, exhaust or lowered etc and still look totally standard, that's going to be one hell of a law to prove.

 

But what if Mr New Car Buyer in 1982 spec'd a load of options on his new car? If you had period modifications which could have been done at purchase then where do you stand.

 

Ok you won't convince 'them' that your Mk1 Fiesta had a Zetec lump in 1982 but a set of period Ford alloys, spoilers or whatever shouldn't be an issue?

[Des]

Bit scary, and I fear this kind of oppressive crap is merely the tip of the iceberg as there's a whole lot more sinister EU bollocks to come. Getting into the political side of it will be futile, action is needed, a few hundred or so old shitters driving slowly around Parliament, bring them to a standstill could get across a point, something like "We'll put our cars back to standard when you put petrol back to 3 shillings sixpence for a gallon of four star you shit eating motherfuckers." But would also earn the scum revenue in cc charge. Proper large scale protests scare the willies of the gummint, but sadly it's only a tiny diminishing fraction of the human race that have the stones for it.

Sadly the extreme cases of tosser modified cars, we all know the ones, where the most outrageous death traps are trotted out, no intention to actually improve, rather to make it as obvious as possible that the thing is fucked up, do give serious weight to legislation.

[warren t claim]

[barrett]

This is about vehicles having to conform to their original vehicle type approval. I'm pretty sure there is no difference in type approval between a boggo 1.0 Fiesta and a spec'd up XR2i or whatever. So in answer to the 'but I haz spotlights will my car get crushed???' questions the answer is no, nobody will give a f*ck. And if it's 30 years old it doesn't matter anyway.

 

A Mk1 Fiesta with a 27-litre Merlin aero engine does not conform to type approval, therefore will have to be given a new IVA/ BIVA test to make sure it is satisfactorily roadworthy (spoiler alert: It wont be).

 

Of course there is a very real chance that this is going to damage the old car hobby considerably, but at the moment I don't see any reason to think that - mainly because I'm having a hard time finding any real facts among all the OMG ALL OUR CARS IZ GONNA BE CRUSHED posts that have sprung up over the whole internets in the last few minutes.

[scaryoldcortina]

[vulgalour]

All I want to know is what to do next. I've contact ACE to see what they suggest.

[Wilko220]

This is about vehicles having to conform to their original vehicle type approval. I'm pretty sure there is no difference in type approval between a boggo 1.0 Fiesta and a spec'd up XR2i or whatever. So in answer to the 'but I haz spotlights will my car get crushed???' questions the answer is no, nobody will give a f*ck. And if it's 30 years old it doesn't matter anyway.

 

A Mk1 Fiesta with a 27-litre Merlin aero engine does not conform to type approval, therefore will have to be given a new IVA/ BIVA test to make sure it is satisfactorily roadworthy (spoiler alert: It wont be).

 

Of course there is a very real chance that this is going to damage the old car hobby considerably, but at the moment I don't see any reason to think that - mainly because I'm having a hard time finding any real facts among all the OMG ALL OUR CARS IZ GONNA BE CRUSHED posts that have sprung up over the whole internets in the last few minutes.

 

Exactly. In other words, CHILL TEH FUCK OUT PPL...

[Mr Lobster]

All I want to know is what to do next.