Original or modernisation?

[MikeKnight]

Just wondering how the autoshiters feel about the balance of keeping their cars original compared to fitting more reliable modern parts.

 

I know my Triumph has electronic ignition (hidden in the dizzy cap) and the spin on oil filter conversion. That would be severely looked down upon in some circles.

 

So how do you feel about modernisation in a vintage/retro car? Keep it original or put things like electronic ignition in?

[eddyramrod]

FWIW... I have no problem at all with mods that are easy to reverse and will make the car easier to live with if it's going to get regular use. That's absolutely fine. It is nice to see original examples of stuff that's rare these days, as time goes on this will be a longer and longer list. That's natural. If a motor is particularly rare, or the example in question is historically significant, then I don't believe it should be modified if at all avoidable. If there are enough about, and you have the skills/facilities/money to be your local Andy Saunders or George Barris, well ok, go for it. If it's good enough it might even be revered as art. If that's what you're going for, and provided you chose your starting point carefully, then good luck.

 

Electronic ignition? Oil filter conversion? No worries, drive it, use it, enjoy it. It's not like there are no GT6s left. There y'go, that's my colours nailed, screwed and glued to the mast.

[Lacy]

I generally agree with everything above. If the car is used regularly then it makes sense for it to be reliable and relatively easy to live with. I also MOSTLY agree with the sentiment that, if it's rare, then leave it alone.....except I also believe that if it's your car, do it your way and if other people don't like it then tough. As much as we love and revere our motors they are, when all is said and done, lumps of metal. I am generally against someone being criticised for doing something to his own property just because someone else wants to be able to see an original whatever. If the haters are that upset, they could offer you lots of money to buy it off you and keep it original themselves. Generally, they won't though, they just prefer to piss on other peoples fires.

[eddyramrod]

Actually yes, good points.

[Rocket88]

As someone who's just bought a '51 [seriously modified] Triumph Renown, you can guess where I stand on this. I cannot understand the beardies who insist on total originality, almost always to the detriment of driving enjoyment.

[trigger]

Hang on, you've actually bought the Renown?! well done that man!

[jonny69]

I tend to use my cars quite a lot and don't like messing around with unreliable parts, so I'm quite happy to junk certain stuff. Usually the first things I do on a car are I'll junk the dynamo for an alternator, but I think the models I've owned (Fords from late 60's or earlier) have been pretty good with points and condensors, so I've never felt the need to swap them. I do normally replace them with new parts out of routine when I buy a car though. Screw-on oil filters that I can get anywhere vs original one I can only get from the owners' club? I think I know which one. This is typically stuff that doesn't take the car away from being original, in my eyes.

 

So, mods. Well all my cars have been modified so far. I'm not a fan of cutting up good, original, running old models, so I'm not a fan of roof-chopping a good original Model A/32/whatever to hotrod. Same goes for junking original chassis for new box section, gutting firewalls to fit a smallblock etc etc. On an already modified car or one that needs substantial work to fix it, fine, but not on a cherry. That said, I have no problems converting brakes from rods to juice or anything that can be easily reversed to put a car back to original.

 

I'm also fine with period speed equipment even on older, quite rare models. I'd probably (and do) keep hold of the originals so they can go back on.

 

Have a pic to brighten the thread up. 12V conversion in a Ford Pop with the original fan adapted onto the front of an alternator - probably got more attention than some of the hotrods at the same show:

 

[Negative Creep]

If it means your car has more chance of starting in the morning or stopping in an emergency then it's fine by me. Although if I do anything I always try and do it in a way that could be easily reversed by future owners. Even the Bluebird could be put back to standard if needs be (aside from the spoiler)

[Rocket88]

Hang on, you've actually bought the Renown?! well done that man!

 

 

Yup, collecting Wednesday, full report will be on here soon.

[dollywobbler]

It's a balance thing. A few mods here make sense. Electronic ignition (I prefer points-assisted on the 2CV) is a wise move, but I wouldn't just drop in a more modern engine. I prefer to improve what's already there. Lighting upgrades can often be sensible too, as can boosting the stoppers.

 

That sort of thing is handy if you use the car regularly, but I do like to see entirely-standard cars at shows, in the same way that I'll appreciate seriously modified ones and everything in between. Generally, I do prefer bolt-on mods that are easily reversed.

[Guest]

Impressing strangers at car shows has never been high on my list of priorities, to be honest.

 

I don't understand the originality-at-all costs brigade, unless the car is the last of its kind or a incredibly low mileage survivor. The term 'original' gets chronically abused anyway - a car running on replacement tyres is no longer as it left the factory.

[Spiny Norman]

Can't say I'm against it, particularly if it's safety related or likely to improve reliability.

It's also worth remembering that as any given car goes through its production cycle, the manufacturer will almost certainly upgrade/improve the spec every few years.

 

I'm too lazy to find any actual examples atm, but I'm sure there must have been cars that started out in life with unassisted drum brakes, traditional points & condenser ignition systems, crossplys, and low spec, that ended up with servo assisted discs, leccy ignition, fatter radials, heated rear windows, three speed fans, stereos etc after they'd been on sale a few years so I can't see how adding anything like that can be seen as a bad thing, particularly on a car that's actually going to be used rather than a trailer queen/museum piece.

 

I'd far rather see a non-original old motor getting used than a showroom spec one sitting idle in a showroom.

[FredTransit]

If it means your car has more chance of starting in the morning or stopping in an emergency then it's fine by me.

 

 

Exactly!

[Albert Ross]

1970 Diesel Land Rover.75 amp Alternator, bigger battery (900 amp or summat) oil pressure gauge, ammeter, voltmeter, radials, overdrive, FWH, cunifer brake pipes, roof-rack, (No wheelbarrows or go-karts) and someobne in it's dim and distant past painted it a shit colour with a crap stripe. I like to be able to get to work...!!!

[vulgalour]

As everyone has said already, it really depends on the car. Generally speaking, I can't help but modify things but as you've seen with both of my current cars - Polo and Princess - one is being modified in a 1970s sort of a way with lots of changes applied to a fairly original car while the other is being mostly left alone. Again, if it's something rare or close to unique, it should be left alone but if it's a run of the mill sort of thing, do whatever you want.

[Pete-M]

There are very few cars that can't be improved.

 

This is a difficult place for me because I like some things standard, but others modified. In the past I always fiddled with my cars, often fitting interiors from other trims specs, sometimes fitting engines from completely the wrong car. I love well made sleepers. After my Sapphire Cosworth was bumped a few years ago I actively searched for an immaculate Mk2 Granada Ghia X Estate to put all the Cosworth running gear to. Unfortunately, the insurance company fixed the Sapphire before I found the right Granada estate. I still wish I'd done it, a standard looking Mk2 Granada with 500+ bhp would have been fun.

 

After saying that, I do have a major bugbear when it comes to stripped out interiors on road cars. I can't stand 'em, oh no. Not one bit. I don't care if stripping out the trim saves you 100kg and knocks half a second from your 1/4 mile time. It looks shit, makes the car unpleasantly loud to be in and therefore means I wouldn't want to drive it. Why make a car a horrible place to travel? If you're gonna build something fast and use it as a road car, make it a nice place to be. Trim the bloody thing.

 

Then there's Mk2 Escort RS2000s. I have no problem with people making 'em faster or more useable, big cam, five speed box, twin 40 Webers, Bilsteins etc are all good things. The fact I've only seen three in the last five years that actually had the correct spec RS interior irritates me. Don't trim 'em in leather, it looks shit. Don't fit a four spoke RS steering wheel and say it's the right one, it isn't. I've only seen one 'mint' RS2000 in the last few years that was actually 100% correct. Most get it wrong with the basics. I don't know why this annoys me. Same for 3.0S Capris - they've always been fucked about with as well. They were nice standard, why fuck with 'em?

[HBR]

I gererally agree with the sentiment here: it's a shame to see something truely rare or of particular note messed about but where there's loads it's your car & do as you wish.

But there's another side to this, just what is original?! I remember being at a car show talking to an old fella I didn't know about a well turned out classic (60s Austin I think, or mabye Morris) & we overheard someone pulling it to bits saying this was the wrong spec, should really have had... etc. The old fella said it was a load of tosh as he'd worked in the factory & they were built from whatever was in stock. Suppliers changed from time to time, bits from another spec model substituted to keep production going etc.

 

Besides, who's to say the manufactuerer got it right!

I'm all for a bit of modding with my own motors, modern or classic there's stuff I'd change to make it what I want

[PhilA]

If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

 

I'm all for making something better but within reason. Like folks have said above, if there's a bunch of the cars available, keep a few to the side as "this is what these were like" and keep the rest to enjoy as " this is what people thought they should have been".

 

Sure, don't go fitting electronic ignition to the only remaining example of a 1915 Crapley-Chodbottom Touring Sedan MK3 and throw away the magneto just because it won't start when it's damp. But on an Anglia? If it was cheap enough and available back in the day, that's what would have been fitted from the factory.

 

Sure, make it useable if you plan on driving it about daily, but I ain't gonna stop you if you chop the roof down and fit a Saab v4 and LPG. I'll pour a shot to the ground for the departed, but it's your vehicle at the end of the day, you have to live with the decision you made. If you have no problem with that then ok. You just created a model of what you thought the vehicle should have been.

The people have voted with their angle grinders.

 

Enjoy it for what it is.

[Cavcraft]

Been mentioned before, but recall talking to a bloke with a slightly customised Morris 1000 at Cholmondley a year or two back. He said the owners club wouldn't talk to him because he's modified the car to a reasonable extent: there's effing thousands of Morris Minors about, so to make a fuss about modifying one is ridiculous.

 

If your car is safer/more reliable/easier to use then so what if it's not original? Lots of older cars didn't have front or rear seat belts but I'd not want to be driving my kids round in a car that didn't have them thankyou.

[HillmanImp]

I can see how some people do get annoyed with it though. There are probably more modded Imps left on the road than standard ones. I am putting mine on montes and spax shocks, putting a nice set of alloys on it and a bigger engine so I am as bad as the rest but they do look and drive so much better tastefully modded but suppose its a shame when there are few original ones left. However I am allowed to mod mine as I spent 2 and a half years welding the fucker up.

 

I will be popping down to the Imp Club national in a couple of weeks and will do a count of the cars there.

[Rocket88]

Most rodded classics are cars that would never have got back on the road unless they HAD been rodded. When old chod gets beyond the point of "no return", rodders seem to be the only people who'll take them on

[jonny69]

The classic Ford scene isn't like that though. Lots of examples of good original cars having their running gear and interiors binned for a Zetec, cage and 7" wide Minilites. Actually, it's more the 'old skool Ford' lot that do that, but it happens a lot in the Anglia crowd too. I saw a few owners down the line after I sold my Pop that someone had started to rod it. It was a shame to see a good everyday car get cut up because I don't think it ever got finished.

[Rocket88]

Granted, though if anyone's ever driven a standard E93a Ford Pop, you'll appreciate why a high percentage of them have been rodded.............

[Mash]

I've long been a purist but I don't mind sensible modifications that make a car easier to live with, we all know that some old cars despite their good looks, are a bag of shit to drive.

 

These days I generally take the view that many have said - don't frick about with a low mileage minter or something that only a handful survive. If you absolutely must - then make it so the mods can be reversed quite easily as the next owner might really want that car but be put off that it isn't to original spec but can't get another as they are so rare. It would piss me off greatly if I found an original UK Mazda 1800 for example that had been buggered about with just at the whim of one owner who then decided to sell it and I had to spend loads of cash putting it back to original spec.

 

There's a point at which there should be some examples of standard spec cars left surely? Maybe they'll be in museums but if they at least they will survive as a reminder of what they were like when new. My Datsun 1000 is the only saloon of its kind left and was in the Nissan press fleet and the first Sunny imported. That to me makes the car off limits to anything but uprating safety and reliablity and I defy anyone to say otherwise.

 

Anything that is plentiful, fair enough but it seems to me that if you want an old car to drive like a modern car then you're missing the point. I also think that if you do modify a car greatly, make sure it's done well, there are far too many bodged up pieces of crap out there that are now a step nearer the scrap man.

[alf892]

It depends on what you want.......

 

My 47 Rover is pretty standard and when I drive it I am very well aware of it's limitations...........in fact i enjoy them. It is all part of the owning experience........you don't let yourself get caught up in the everyday rush. If I'm in more of a hurry I go in a modern where the journey is just time sitting. In the oldie the journey is (part of) the point.

 

But I also like 'resto rods', which is how i would desciibe that Reknown, you look at most and the thought and engineering that has gone into them is fantastic. Also a favourite are mods done in period style.......

 

On balance I think it is up to the owner and what they want from the car. It is only a car.

[MikeKnight]

Glad that we're all more or less on the same level.