Lancia Y10 1.3 GTIe - Why will it not start?

[Lord Sterling]

Wow! Thats a bit of work there

 

I used to see a load of these Lancia 'Y' things zipping around all over Brussles when I lived there. I did always wonder what the matt Black tailgate was all about, was it because Lancia couldnt be arsed to finish it off, or did it make it easier to supply when Italians had tailgate damage, meaning Lancia didnt have to paint them in all sorts of different colours?

 

Anyhow, I'm glad your getting the car sorted, they are a great looking car. Good luck with the weld-a-thon, keep us posted....

[gtd2000]

Ouch!

[Vin]

Wow!! Good luck with the weldathon. It will be all worth it in the end.

 

The rear seat belt points and rear sill rot look very familiar. Common Panda rot spots. The white 1000CL I broke for spares had been bodged in these places many times...

[SambaS]

A rotten Lancia? I though they were supposed to be quite resiliant to rust. No but seriously, it makes me happy to hear that you're going to fix it. It's one of those cars I aint seen in a good ten years. I can't wait for the day where I posses the skillz to fix rot like that, especially with the state of my Opel.

[philibusmo]

Minor update.

Had 45 mins today after work free so I drilled out the spot welds and chizeled the second part of the bumber bracket away, leaving the chasiss rail and floor.

Tomorrow I have more time after work so will set to with the grinder for an hour or so and see if I can cut the floor back to good metal and clean off and surface rot hanging around the area.

Thanks for the encouragement. To be honest I'm not sure my welding skills are currently up to it, but with these complex shapes, mostly lack of structural rust and no real deadline it will be good to add to my skills.

I'm hoping to have this looking pretty good in the end. I'm not looking for a concourse finish, just a really nice looking car. Its just a shame that it seems the interior was once taken apart by an oaf. It could really do with new sill trims, kick panels and dash switch surround, so if anyone comes across one in a scrappy, then please nick these bits for me...

[philibusmo]

No new pictures today, but I have cut out the vast majority of the rust you can see in the last picture. And now I have a nice large hole surrounded by good metal. So far the only things that I am having issues with is the underseal which seems to only respond to flapper discs on the grinder, and is far more solid than the metal it is protecting and the insides of curves on some of the areas that still have rust attached. I can't get my grinder in at all, and the metal is impossible to remove with tin snips or a junior hacksaw. I have a drill with some fairly rubbish attachments and all the power of one of those rotating platforms for cupcakes, or a hammer and chisel, but both also seem fairly hopeless in this situation. Any ideas or very useful tools for these situations as it is one that I also found on the fiesta and will doubtless have problems with in the future.

[M'coli]

Underseal becomes pliable if you heat it up - blow torch or hot air gun are ideal, but anything will do that'll give it a bit of warmth, even hot water(!) but this is a Lancia so you might not want to do that! It doesn't need to be runny, it should shift ok with a scraper or hammer and chisel if it's still cool enough to touch.

[philibusmo]

I spent some more time on this yesterday afternoon.

First job was removing he fuel tank, which was very easy, except for a single bolt underneath the central mounting for the rear axle which necessitated half an hour of getting cramp in both my arms, trying to remove it with a cut down ¼ inch ratchet.

Luckily the bolt was not tight or I would really have been stuffed.

With this done and the almost full tank syphoned into the tanks for the Fiesta until it was full and then into the Cressida I set about cleaning out some more of the rot from the drivers side rear arch.

Excuse the poor quality picture, this is of the inside lip at the top of the arch which has more rot than I expected. Not a massive issue though, just means that the patch is going to have to be a bit bigger.

I then set to cutting out the dangerous piece of MOT welding over the rear seat belt anchor. A quick blat with the grinder got a good perimeter around the patch which extended onto the chases rail which turned out to be very clean underneath. A swift belt with a hammer then broke these piss poor welds and the mess came free.

And a quick shot of the lovely weld quality underneath.

A quick search through the cars file of history brings up this MOT, dated 22/12/09 from Watford MOT Station.

Of particular interest is item 003 on the fail sheet:

'Offside (floor (chassis area)) Seat belt anchorage prescribed area is excessively corroded [5.1.B.6]'

This was then 'fixed' for the princely sum of £253.00 including VAT. This price also covered 2 patches to the inner sills which are yet to be explored fully and a new front coil spring.

The car was then given its MOT certificate indicating that it is roadworthy and sent on its way, the dangerous corrosion nicely hidden so it continued to remain unnoticed for another 2 and a half years, in which time I expect that it has become more dangerous still.

So if anyone is interested the MOT station is:

Watford MOT Station Ltd

149A St Albans Road

Watford

WD24 5BB

01923226775

Test Station Number 1200B1

Certificate Issued by A. J. Warrell on 22/12/2009

 

Anyway, got to get back to it, his rust isn't going to remove itself, or at least not until the car falls apart.

[philibusmo]

Todays events can be summed up pretty neatly in these two words: 'More rust'.

Having cut as much as I can out of the corner for the bumper mount without a smaller grinder(I am currently deciding on an electric die grinder) I decided to have a look at the slightly lumpy sill and the two other 'repairs' carried out by Watford MOT station. The outer sill itself is actually remarkably well repaired and really solid, it is just the inner sill with its bodged patches which is falling apart along with a couple of other structurally important areas which can only be accessed with the outer sill removed.

These areas also extend to behind the offside rear trailing arm mount so looks like the axel is coming off as well to have a go at this newly found oxidisation.

It looks like sills for these may be readily available (about the only panel anyone lists) but I know from Fiesta panels that the words 'in stock' are frequently lies.

Have a couple of pictures of the rot for your troubles. The white paint is covering good metal which still needs work doing around it.

[gtd2000]

Is this going to turn out like the restoration of the Toyota Celica rally car.....a.k.a full rebuild from fresh metal...

 

Bit of a bummer all this bloody rust but to be expected from anything Italian of that vintage I suspect..

[jonny69]

Props for sticking with it. I restored my Anglia from pretty much that condition and at the time wished I'd ditched it in favour of one in better condition, but, 5 years on I know that it is completely solid underneath and not hiding any of the surprises that I see uncovered every day on the Anglia forums.

 

I've got to say, yours was a lot more rusty than I was expecting it to be. I think you can safely say if you see another Y10 that looks ok on the outside, it's probably hiding all number of horrors under the carpets.

[philibusmo]

Thanks for the encouragment, this is probablythe most awkwardly rusty car I have worked on yet.

As for that fucking MOT centre; I'm tempted to go and burn the place down after the amount of hassel their 'fixes' are giving me. Atleast where there is rust elsewhere, it is quite clearly visable. Only where these grunting oafs have been at it is there large amount of dangerous and hidden rot.

With my 45 mins today I ground back the rust on the chassis rail lip above where the bumper mounted, gave it a coat of rust converter which will be filed back before welding on this patch tomorrow for the floor.

It's not much but just doing a little bit each evening stops it lying dorment and me loosing sight of the end.

[Mr_Bo11ox]

Shag a wombat, I would never have expected that level of galloping rot.

 

Good on you for getting stuck in, you've gotta give it a whirl havent you, I hate the idea of these old cars making it to 20+ years old, then ending up getting scrapped on my watch. thats how I end up spending ages welding the fuggas back together all the time. Still, it gives a man ammo for abusing folk on forums etc who buy stuff then give up on it half way through, and thats worth a lot.

[Gompo]

Just catching up with this, top marks for your perseverance. I look forward to completion..

[Gompo]

Just catching up with this, top marks for your perseverance. I look forward to completion..

[philibusmo]

More progress on this yesterday:

Took th drivers side sill off which had nice plates over untreated rust holes and a large lump of filler sat inside.

And this is what I was greeted with inside. Yet more horrific rot!

This is where the inner sill, outer sill and floor pan all meat. All three are rotten. Luckily they don't look too difficult to fix.

I expect that despite the other side looking superficially better, it will be much the same story when I strip it down. I just wish it wasn't pissign it down, I only have the drive to work on and I would be so much further through this project if it wasn't for this blasted rain.

 

I have also decided that despite the situation getting ever more frilly and brown every time I do some more work on it, I am going to really try and stick with this to the end. I bouht this car knowing it is a Lancia, expecting it not to be rusty was quite frankly stupid of me.

 

Owning a Lancia is like a high maintenance girlfriend: You're really enjoying yourself and having a lot of fun, then suddenly you find you are spending every weekend taking care of her rather than seeing your own friends and the more time you spend the more time and money she demands for her upkeep.

[Betaphile]

Owning a Lancia is like a high maintenance girlfriend: You're really enjoying yourself and having a lot of fun, then suddenly you find you are spending every weekend taking care of her rather than seeing your own friends and the more time you spend the more time and money she demands for her upkeep.

Someone once said that owning a Lancia is like being in love with a beautiful woman who doesn't care if you live or die. In that case, the car being referred to was a Gamma, but I think it can be said to apply across the board. Props to you for keeping at it, will be a great motor once it's finished...

[philibusmo]

Bit more progress today, all on the same theme as previously.

I took the rear windows out and began a large about of gringing to clean up the worst area which was around the rear seatbealt mount to try and get this all sound before I do any more to the sill to avoid the car colapsing.

Here's what it looked like after a mornings work. The most time is spent scraping off the useless underseal.

And here is what it was like below what is visable in the first picture by the end of the day. A bit of a clean up and I will start welding new metal in here shortly, followed by bilthammer rust converter liberally splattered over everything, then red oxide, then black paint, then waxoyl. That should make it last atleast another 2 years before another major restoration. Another quality* MOT repair down here was removed by hammering a screwdriver behind it and levering it outwards, followed by grabbing it with a pair of plyers and pulling. Took about two minutes to remove. GRÀ in an accident.

And the above...

And because it is the British summer it very suddenly decided to absolutly piss down at about 4pm and as I had no windows and exposed metal I made the car a rudimentry hat.

Thats all until it stops pouring down with rain and blowing a gale, which on previous form could be October.

[Craig the Princess]

Loving the car hat

 

You are doing an awesome job philibusmo, a real inspiration.

[dollywobbler]

OMG! GR9 PICKUP CUNVERSHUN!

 

Inspiring work - though I'm sure it doesn't feel like it at the time! You should weld yourself a medal.

[philibusmo]

OMG! GR9 PICKUP CUNVERSHUN!

 

Inspiring work - though I'm sure it doesn't feel like it at the time! You should weld yourself a medal.

 

Thanks, that has made me grin.

I always start the day thinking that this is quite clearly impossible and I should just frag it but by the end of the day where I can see how the section I am workin on will come together (or has) I am always far more positive and all ready for the next sunny day when I'm not at work. Sadly by the time this comes round again my posativity is gone again and I spend an hour piss arseing around considering scrap values before getting to work on it again.

[philibusmo]

More grinding and welding occured this weekend, briefly avec le chat.

From previous pictures, I'm sure you know what this section of floor pan used to look like, some of the welds are not too pretty, but they are strong enough (levering on them with a pair of pliers, made not one mm of movement) and will be covered by the same trim that used to be covering rust. I will still make a bit of effort to tidy them up a bit though.

And here is the below. I now also have repair sections for the 2 lareg holes in the inner wheel arch (one for the seatbelt mount) which are made, but i ran out of time before the dismal football match to get them welded in.

EVen though this is a tiny amount in the grand scale of this cars rust problem, it has made me feel far more posative that it is viable to finish this.

[cort16]

MEGA hero welding there keep up the good work!

[hairnet]

bol gonna be well jell of you sorting this out

 

top banana

[tooSavvy]

Heartening Diary Fodder, here M8

 

Rust!..?

 

There's a guy [or 2] would swap Italian 'Cake Icing' for the 'colander substrate' found on 60's Hillman IMPs - over on my other home 'the Imp Club forum'

 

tooSavvy

[philibusmo]

MOAR PRoGR35Z

 

I decided to take this week off work as holiday a few weeks back so that I could really crack into this welding. 3 days in and I have managed 2 patches, thanks to this fucking unending drizzle interspersed with monsoons. It looks (from the long range weather forecast) that today and yesterday were the 2 least wet days of the week too, with upwards of 30 mins of dry weather each. Looks like I may be spending the rest of my holiday, sat on the sofa watching Homes Under the Hammer.

 

Anywho, thanks for all the encouragment, once again, and maybe, just maybe there might be a couple of dry weeks before winter where I can attempt to get the majority of this done.

 

Here is what I had at the end of yesterday:

And here is what I had by the end of today:

That's this little section sorted once I have ground back the welds, now, just the sill, (inner and outer), inner wheel arch lip, rear bumper hanger, door bottom and the same all on the other side left to go...

[philibusmo]

I took this week off work to get on with this car, and in a spate of absolutly-fucking-wonderful timing, it has pissed it down until Thursday.

However Thursday and Friday morning I have really gotten going on the awkward section at the rear of the sill where six different layers meet. This has been the part I have been dreading the most, simply due to its complexity and levels of corrosion so I am much much happier now I have made a damn good start at it.

I began by grinding a couple of patches off the rear centre cross member, revealing yet more covered up rot, which I had been expecting, given this cars previous record.

I then realised that to get any further I would have to be griding inside the front end of the car and I really dont want any sparks finding their way to the glass as I don't rate my chances of getting replacements particularly high. Thus I hoiked all the gubbins out of the doors and whipped the windows out:

At which point I paused and had a think of what to do next. This section has the inner sill, outer sill, floor pan, cross members, inner arch and an odd piece of inner structure all meeting within about a foot of each other, meaning that in a couple of areas there are 4 skins spot welded together. Once I had puzzled out what needed cutting out and what to weld in, and in which order I started with a patch to the edge of the floor pan, after cutting sections out of all the above.

It still needs a bit of tidying up on top but is very very solid, especially now I have welded in three further layers so it now looks like this (except with the welds ground down, coated in zinc primer and filled with cavity wax).

This in total took all of yesterday and this morning and early afternoon at which point the rain started back up again. So I went inside and made up a bumper bracket with a vice and a hammer.

There was a lul in the rain for about 30 minutes so I took the opportunity to wash the Fiesta which has been perfect, whilst the Lancia like a naughty child has been getting all the attention.

This reminded me how much I love this Fiesta which has quite an extensive story behind it if anyone is interested in a new thread? It is three years worth of hijinks and shenanigans at this point though, so I'm not sure if I can be arsed to write it all up.

As an aside, does anyone know where I can get a replacement Lancia badge? The original has legged it at some point in the last 23 years.

[mouseflakes]

Dedication, devotion, dermal denticles.

 

Good work.

[Captain Mainwaring]

I love how you seem to be doing this purely for the love of the car rather than viewing it from a saleability standpoint.

 

Keep at it.

[philibusmo]

Today I tackled the fuel filler area which had rusted like a Mk3 Fiesta.

I started at this:

Which true to form ended up being much worse that it looks and after a morning worth of cutting and grinding I had this:

A large hole but remarkably easy to achieve. After watching the Grand Prix I then set to work on making the patches and welding in the new metal.

It was fucking horrible, the patches were very difficult to make, with lots of awkward angles and twists to them, meaning that it took a total of five patches for this small area. In addition the area was almost completely inaccessible with a welder unless you are directly underneath. I am now covered in small burns, have cuts and scuffs all over my hands and at one point my hair caught fire slightly so I made a rudimentary fire proof hat out of an old frying pan. I must have looked clinically insane wearing a frying pan, ear defenders and goggles and brandishing a grinder.

However I wasn't arrested and after a whole afternoon on my back with a welder or grinder, regularly clonking my head on the axle stand, getting stabbed with discarded bits of welding wire and being burned by falling molten metal I ended up with this:

Sorry, I only thought to take a picture after I had seam sealed it, but it's not that pretty underneath, however it is the right shape with only one hole, in the correct place, so that is an improvement.

 

I also cleaned the inside of the rear bumper. Every little helps.