project 1980 Austin Princess

53,123 · December 31, 2024

@SilverMachine nobody suggested getting rid of the Princess yet... yet. The van is the venerable Cléon-Fonte lump.

@24vdiamond I may take you up on that offer. I want to see what the timescale is from the garages I've had tip offs from for the work on the Princess when I call on the 2nd, if they can do it quickly enough I'll be okay as I am and I'll save you the trouble.

Today I did tweak the wiper location on the van and put some fresh tape on, I might just scrape through with an advisory. So as with the head work on the Princess I'm going to see who's available and friendly and take a chance. Worst case I'll get a list of jobs to fix, best case I get an MoT. Stuck waiting for that last exhaust part in the meantime and the awful weather that's blundered in and is set to hang about for a few days. Luckily, I don't have anywhere I need to be for a week now.

7,225 · December 31, 2024

just watched the video and i have o say the tongue in cheek style was very good👍

53,123 · January 2

Good news! Spoke to the local garage and they have a very short lead time on the head work, with a pressure test and skim being £80. It's going to take me longer to order the fluids and cam belt I need than it is for them to fix the head.

6,548 · January 2

Hasn't it been off several times already? If so the question needs asking why has it gone,I would have thought it was a pretty low stressed engine.

20,127 · January 2

My guesses would be:

Shit gasket(s).

Loose head bolt(s).

Warped head.

I've had the top two. One cheapo gasket that failed within a few hundred miles, some I've not fitted as they'd been badly stored.

A head that untorqued itself despite my having re-torqued it after initial run-in post rebuild, I retorqed it again and it's been fine since.

You have to get a Dolomite OHV head VERY hot to warp it, I've yet to achieve it.

January 3

On 31/12/2024 at 16:41, vulgalour said:

@SilverMachine nobody suggested getting rid of the Princess yet... yet. The van is the venerable Cléon-Fonte lump.

@24vdiamond I may take you up on that offer. I want to see what the timescale is from the garages I've had tip offs from for the work on the Princess when I call on the 2nd, if they can do it quickly enough I'll be okay as I am and I'll save you the trouble.

Today I did tweak the wiper location on the van and put some fresh tape on, I might just scrape through with an advisory. So as with the head work on the Princess I'm going to see who's available and friendly and take a chance. Worst case I'll get a list of jobs to fix, best case I get an MoT. Stuck waiting for that last exhaust part in the meantime and the awful weather that's blundered in and is set to hang about for a few days. Luckily, I don't have anywhere I need to be for a week now.

No problem, the little Astra is here if you need it

53,123 · January 3

I'm assuming shit gasket this time around, because it's not gone the same way it has before and it didn't even come close to overheating. I've had some gaskets arrive that are already knackered while still in the packet, and gone straight in the bin, it's entirely possible there was a flaw in the current one I missed. The last skim was when I was in Middlesbrough, and then I messed up with that end gasket and bent all the valves and had to take the head off and put another gasket on (the current one), didn't get the head retested as I'd only spun it on the starter and never run the engine. It then lasted for quite a few years until recently. At one point I used the spare head I've got too, as it was easier, so there's the complication of two different heads being used on the same engine. I haven't lost all compression on one cylinder, it's just low and there's bubbles in the coolant, that feels more like a gasket that's failed to me, especially since there's no mixing of oil and water at all.

Honestly, I've always had trouble with this engine and it needs pulling and rebuilding. For now I'm just going to go through the head rebuild dance again and see how long it lasts because that's all I can do.

53,123 · January 3

History of head removals, to clarify:

First time - motorway, shortly after buying the car in 2012/3. Proper failure, overheating, the lot. Got the original head skimmed, tested, refitted. Head gasket replaced.

Second time - Spare head fitted. The original waxstat housing had disintegrated, it was easier to fit the spare head to deal with it. Oil filler cap on the spare head (it's in the head rather than the block, being an earlier head) leaked heavily. Original head tested and refitted with the current thermostat housing compromise. Head gasket replaced.

Third time - Refitted the original head, didn't realise I'd cocked up clearance for the camshaft due to one gasket, bent every valve when trying to start the car.

Fourth time - Original head removed, valves replaced, head gasket replace, original head reinstalled.

Fifth time - Christmas 2024, no overheating but bubbles in the coolant and low compression on one cylinder. Head to be removed, tested, and skimmed if necessary.

It's not actually blown the head gasket as many times as its had the head removed.

January 3

at the risk of sounding like a complete straight jacket case, is it worth leaving the princess together for the moment? and using it sparingly just to keep things moving - and to get it moved when you move? your not going to be doing hundreds of miles runs in it anyway - or depends where you move to! should i assume the renault Cléon-Fonte engine is 1.4? another one im not familiar with at all ! an ex once had a early 1.2 clio, that was terrible tho. even the michellin tyres were oval....

53,123 · January 3

Makes more sense to do what I'm doing at the moment tbh. Head comes off the Princess this weekend, parts get ordered ready for putting it back together, got a friend helping with transport so I can get the head to the garage and back easier. I reckon the Princess can be back together and working by the end of the month no problem.

Renault literally just needs the last exhaust part to arrive and I can throw it at an MoT and see what happens. Then it's just a case of waiting and seeing which car is ready to use first and use that one.

55,764 · January 3

Let me know if you decide to part with that Renault. I still kick myself for ditherering over one I was offered on here and didn't buy. It would be ideal for moving bikes etc around

6,548 · January 4

11 hours ago, vulgalour said:

Makes more sense to do what I'm doing at the moment tbh. Head comes off the Princess this weekend, parts get ordered ready for putting it back together, got a friend helping with transport so I can get the head to the garage and back easier. I reckon the Princess can be back together and working by the end of the month no problem.

Renault literally just needs the last exhaust part to arrive and I can throw it at an MoT and see what happens. Then it's just a case of waiting and seeing which car is ready to use first and use that one.

I guess your individual circumstances must be a lot different to many on here,no transport for a month means eviction or starvation🤣

53,123 · January 4

The big benefit to being self employed and working from home at play there, as well as having a supermarket within walking distance if I'm having a good day, or a short bus trip if not. It also helps having almost no social life XD

4,263 · January 4

Have you had the block checked for straightness on the Princess? You might have said it somewhere and I've missed it. It could be that the overheating episode the first time warped it hence the repeated failures afterwards.

6,548 · January 4

Do they have wet liners in these? Does sound like there's something else going on.

53,123 · January 4

I only got the head off this morning. Knackered now, resting because of my health issues and I think I overdid it just a bit. No wet liners on these. Iron block with an aluminium head.

I'll be getting the head dismantled tomorrow if I'm up to it, I'm not up to doing it today, and then it can go to the local garage in the week, got a friend giving me a lift for that job which is nice of them. The cold is really slowing me down a lot, any more than 2 hours out in it and I'm fucked so I have to be really careful.

6,548 · January 4

Took all my energy to change a battery in the cold so understand that.

It is possible the block has an issue,would certainly be worth giving it a good check over before reinstalling everything.iron is a lot more resilient than ally of course,but do wonder if there's a hairline crack or something.

53,123 · January 4

Totally agree with you on that. Trouble is I've got no way of checking. I physically can't remove the engine even if I had the engine crane up here (it's still down south at the old house) and it's a heavy old thing thanks to the gearbox-in-sump set up. I can say the bores looked nice and clean, no ridges, no obvious signs of damage anywhere, no piston wiggle and aside from a bit of carbon deposits as you might expect, it all looked very normal so if there is a problem with the block it's deeper than I can go with it at home so for now it just has to be left alone unfortunately.

6,548 · January 4

Pretty sure there is a spray or something you can use on the block face that will show anything up,crack detector or something.seems rather a pointless exercise to keep changing headgasket, skimming heads without having checked the block.even using a steel rule and some feelers gauges to check for flatness would be a start.

53,123 · January 4

I've done the steel rule and a torch thing on the block several times when the head has been off in the past, it's always been as flat as you can tell with that technique with no light shining through a gap from various angles. If there's a problem with the block it's deeper than I can go with it this time around. Remember, I'm moving house in a few months and my health still isn't great, there simply isn't the time, money, or physical ability to pull the whole engine out to get it rebuilt so I just have to do the head rebuild and hope for the best again. My engine crane is still down south and even if it were here, there's no way I can move it on my own, the cylinder head is my limit physically.

I'm just going to do what I can do and hope that after the house move I'm in a better position to pull the engine then. I know it's not the right way to do it, like usual it's the way I have to do it for now and I'll try and do it the right way later. I wish it had given me this job when it wasn't winter, I can say that much with certainty.

January 4

Its worth checking the head visually for any cracks before having it skimmed and maybe even having it crack tested.

My dad had a CVH sierra which would loose water and had bubbles in the coolant but no mixed oil and water and when I took the head off there was a tiny little crack which was opening up when it was warm. Car was still usable but used a couple of litres ever 100 miles or so.

A replacement head sorted it out.

53,123 · January 4

Already done the visual checks, it looks fine and it was fine the last time it was pressure tested. The reason it's going to the garage is to be pressure tested and skimmed if needed. The funny thing is, until Christmas Day the car never used any coolant.

11,394 · January 4

5 hours ago, dean36014 said:

Have you had the block checked for straightness on the Princess? You might have said it somewhere and I've missed it. It could be that the overheating episode the first time warped it hence the repeated failures afterwards.

+1, this is very common on the Austin A40 engines which are prone to HGF, they almost always need the block skimming as well as the head, if this isn't done it will just keep blowing.

My Princess (2ltr O series) is leaking oil from between the head and the block at the end nearest the clutch. I have bought a head gasket set for it but I don't want to go pulling it apart until it actually starts running badly or overheating. I don't want to go looking for trouble, there's no mixing and it sits rock steady on the temp gauge. This is my first experience of O series engines and with all the head trouble Vulgalour has had with his I am a little apprehensive! But have done 1500 miles without issue so far.

January 4

When the head was done previously was it retightened after a few hundred miles? My dad was a stickler for doing this back in the days when these were current models. Every customer was told to return after a few hundred miles or so so dad or his partner could recheck the head bolts. Years on I had a similar issue with the wifes Rover 214. 3 times I did it, first two by the book, new bolts, second gasket was an oe one too. Third time I did two things different, after torqueing the bolts to the book with two lots of 90degree turns (IIrc) I then went over the bolts with the torque wrench and tightened them all down bit by bit till they were all as tight as the tightest bolt. There was quite a variation between the bolts. A few hundred miles later I retorqued them all back to that tightness, again there was quite a difference. We ran it a few months then sold it. A few years later the wife bumped into the buyer who surprisingly told her how brilliant it had been and how pleased they were with it…. Bloody typical.

6,548 · January 4

On.reliant engines,which are all alloy,I soon found leaving the Haynes amount of 500 miles was far too late,it would have blown by then.i was advised by an old hand to do it based on hot and cold cycles,not miles,so ran it till hot,and retorqued next morning,I did this about 3-4 times before I didn't get any movement on the torque wrench.the amount of movement that I could get convinced me that driving it anywhere would result in it blowing again.

I've applied this method on every HG change since and touch wood never had one blow again. I also used to run it up for a minute or so with no coolant in the first time,to allow the lacquer on the gasket to melt which helps create the seal.having coolant sloshing around and potentially creeping across the gasket can prevent that.

Given that the princess was cooked badly when you got it (and who knows if it had happened or how many times before you got it) and several times since the hg has gone or leaked,with different and skimmed heads,it looks almost certain there is an issue with the block.

53,123 · January 4

All it's getting this time is the head test, skim if needed, and new gasket because that's all I can do.

Not disagreeing with anyone's advice here, I'm just limited on how much I can actually do. I might get a few thousand miles/years out of it again, I might not, it's just the way it has to go for now.

January 5

If your doing the head replacement yourself might be worth getting tin of this if you can find any local, a nice misting over both sides gives a really good even seal without masses squidging all over the place

Hylomar 'M' Gasket Sealant Aerosol from Merlin Motorsport

53,123 · January 6

Yesterday was rough, definitely overdid it. Anyway, today I got the head stripped down and ready to ship off to the machine shop later this week. There are some very minor surface scratches that I can see but can't get with a fingernail on one bearing surface, a bit of carbon build up on the valves, oil is a little black but devoid of chunks and sparkles. I'll take the camshaft with me to the shop and get their advice on if any work is needed there. Nothing has jumped out as being amiss to the naked eye.

The only other weird thing is the head gasket itself. The metal rings in the middle are fine, but the rest of the material it's made of seems to have shrunk? I've never seen it happen before, but it's like the gasket is just ever so slightly too small in every dimension except for where the metal bits of it are.

I'll let you know what the report is from the machinist when the head comes back. If need be I've got that spare head too so hopefully I can make one good head out of the two. It's the best I can do for now.

@24vdiamond funny you should mention that, someone was asking me about copper gasket spray, I imagine that's the more modern equivalent.

14,410 · January 6

Maybe show them the gasket too, see if they have an opinion?

January 6

4 hours ago, vulgalour said:

The only other weird thing is the head gasket itself. The metal rings in the middle are fine, but the rest of the material it's made of seems to have shrunk? I've never seen it happen before, but it's like the gasket is just ever so slightly too small in every dimension except for where the metal bits of it are.

that is rather odd, if anything you would expect it would expand with being squeezed tightly between the head and block! maybe it shrank because its cold? i know that can happen with other things!

did you say quality of gaskets is hit and miss anyway? thing is with ebay is you dont know if new parts have been made to the same quality or if a genuine part is actually that, buggers.

also suprised that rimmer bros dont seem to stock princess bits!

other than that it dose sound like so far so good, but try taking it a bit easier fella, the cold isn't good to work in at the best of times, let alone when pulling engines apart outdoors! .......and you need a good thermal mug that wont fall over for your brew!

alas progress is progress! need to watch your buick video later am a bit behind...

project 1980 Austin Princess

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