Check this eejit out - last time I sell a car to a punter

[The Reverend Bluejeans]

I had this kind of hassle when I sold the BMW. Fella never came back after the 4th attempt to get £400 back (after paying £380). Even saw him in Sainsbury a few weeks later and he made a great effort to avoid me.

 

What on earth was that about!?

[barrett]

Ok, maybe I'm missing something here. This is what it looks like to me.

A chap purchases an incredibly cheap, but taxed & MOT'd car. The following day, whilst driving , the rear wheel locks up and causes him to lose control of the car. Fortunately he was travelling at low speed and no harm was done. He calls the AA, when the nice AA man arrives he takes one look at the car and says "That looks fucked, no wonder it gave out, I'm surprised it has lasted this long!" - The chap replies that he had no idea as he only bought the car the previous day. The broken car is transported to a local garage, where the mechanic echoes the AA man's sentiment and points out the various components that have failed and will need to be replaced, and explains that it will cost way in excess of the car's value to put it right to the owner. Now the chap heads home, a little upset and understandably shaken from his experience (no doubt wondering what would've happened had he been travelling at a higher speed or on a motorway....). He fires off a polite but strongly worded email to the seller of the car, informing him of what happened and displaying his rancour at the whole situation. At no point does he attempt to obtain compensation from the seller or threaten any legal action, but merely explains that he is upset and was of the understanding that the car was roadworthy when clearly it was not.

 

The seller of the car reads this email, and sends one back saying (I paraphrase) "OMG HOW DARE YOU SAY THAT! I AM GOING TO SUE YOU IF YOU DON'T TAKE THAT BACK!"

 

The buyer of the car, on reading this, then fires back AN APOLOGY for his original email, once again explaining that his emotions were understandably running high at the time he wrote it.

 

The seller of the car then posts the entire correspondence on a public forum, where a group of sage men knowingly nod and chuckle at the 'idiot' buyer, pausing briefly to direct a few choice insults at said buyer and happily agree that he is just so typical of the car buying public these days blah blah blah.

 

 

All right, the guy clearly knows nothing about cars (he most likely wouldn't be buying a fucked £250 Subaru if he did) and no fault lies with Scooters who did clearly explain the car was a 'spares or repairs' type deal both in the advert and in person, but somehow 3 pages of people slagging the guy for being a bit shaken and perhaps a little unthinking with his email (and at worst, a bit dim) just doesn't sit right with me, especially since so much of it has been taken up with the supposed legality of the situation when the buyer AT NO POINT threatened legal action or in any way implied that he would! (I have read his email through several times and I can't see any mention of this anyway, please tell me if I've missed something and I'll take this all back)

 

/Harrumph

[Mr_Bo11ox]

I didnt realise they guy had apologised! and you're already on about suing him for defamation? FFS have a word with yourself scooters man.

[dollywobbler]

Well done for posting against the flow barrett! I must admit, my feelings tend towards your view. Yes, you must be wary of issues with a £250 car, but this guy clearly isn't that clued up - millions of people aren't. I can't help thinking that a friendly but firm "sorry mate, you bought it as seen and I said it was spares only (if that was the case)" would have been better than OMG GONNA SUE UR ASS!

[Bren]

It is better to weigh old shite in than to let it go to some utter dick who expects tax/mot/FSH/warranty for less than £500 - which unfortunately means most of the general public.

 

Personally I would'nt sell privately now because of the dross turning up at your door - they could be casing the house up or anything - not to mention the plod knocking on your door 3 weeks later because the car you sold has been used in a hit and run by some dick with no insurance who was probably pissed.

[The Reverend Bluejeans]

Maybe he did over react - but I'd have done the same and told the fool to jog on.

 

But I would have chopped the cat off, drained the tank and weighed it in - that's the only mistake the vendor made. The world is full of brain dead cretins and this is the kind of shit you don't need.

[Pete-M]

I think the nail has truly been knocked upon the head.

 

Look at any number of forums and you'll find people buying half-desirable old chod for a few hundred quid. Imagine you're not a car person and you stumble upon this place whilst looking for some cheap old chod. You see loads of posts about people finding nice old motors for peanuts and them being pretty damn good. So you do what seems logical, you search Gumtree, Loot etc and see a geezer flogging a Subaru for £250 with a bit of T&T. You give the bloke a call and he tells you that the car isn't perfect, it's being sold as spares for scrap money and he says something about a noisy bearing. You go, give the bloke his cash and pick up your new toy. If you're not that knowledgeable about cars that rumbly noise from the back means nothing to you. You go home, all happy with your £250 Subaru. You tell your mates you bought a great car for buttons and that it's ace. You've got a bargain.

 

Next day you're mooching down the high street in your new bargain buy when there's a big old bang and the wheel locks up. This has never happened to you before. You're scared shitless. You don't know how to fix it, or even what has happened, so you call the garage who (for an extortionate fee) come and tow it away. They get it up on a ramp and tell you it's going to cost a bloody fortune because it needs loads of stuff fixing, and they quote you for bits at Subaru retail prices. Because the bearing has been left too long the hub / carrier is shagged and your £250 bargain buy now owes you £350 and has been declared "Dangerous" until you throw a load of money at it. Which it is. It locked up a wheel on the high st, ffs. You go home on the bus, saddened and distraught at your lack of car buying ability.

 

You get home, you're more than a bit freaked out and you send a strongly worded e-mither to the chap you bought the car from stating how the car was dangerous and shouldn't have been sold.

 

Seller sends back a reply about wanting a legal apology. That's gonna help....

 

Wheel bearings are an important part of a car. I knew someone who was killed when one seized and it's pure neglect to drive something with them when they're fucked. I really don't understand why people do it. I stopped Emma driving the Golf Cabrio as soon as I went in it and heard the noise from the rear bearings. They were £7 each and half an hour to fit, yet if they had locked up on her it could well have caused a lot more damage than £14. Doing them meant I discovered a pair of leaking rear wheel cylinders, so it ended up costing £60ish (cylinders, shoes and bearings) but it meant the car was safe to drive and unlikely to kill her or anyone else.

[dollywobbler]

Very true Pete, especially the bit about neglecting wheel bearings. I tend to get jumpy if there's so much as a slight hum when cornering (the BX has a rear that's a bit too noisy) but I once bought a Pug 205 with one that it drowned out the engine! I got it changed straight away, but did wonder why someone was driving around with something so clearly wrong. Cars are not exactly rocket science are they? If something sounds odd, it probably is odd!

[Guest]

Further to Barratt's missive, which I tend to agree with...

1. Since when are those who refer to "the public" actualyy not the public? If you are traders fair enuf.

I certainly don't consider myself above the public.

2. Scooters - you nailed it when the blokes solicitor said he'd write a letter to anyone for £50. What's your's doing... I studied law and some of the cretins and lowlifes present - ie "I want to be a We Can Remove CCJs" person" put me off the whole unethical blloody lot.

 

I took a £500 deposit on a car once,the vehicle inmy user name as it goes, did a receipt, wrote when the balance was due. blah blah.

Bloke disappeared. No answer at home, phones, nowt.

Wrote a letter - zilch.

Two months later I'm really wondering, so using errrrrrr "local knowledge" I traced him thinking God he's got terminal soemthing or he's dead or summit.

No, he's changed his mind....didn't want to tell me.

So I scuttle off. Bewildered.

Few days later ... solicitors letter threatening all sorts of old bollocks.

 

Sooooooooooooo he's left a deposit. Disappeared, I, me, I! trace him and then he sees a solly.

 

One swift call to the solicitor stating my calls are charged at £25 per 15 mins or part thereof, lay down a few details including offer to send a fax of the receipt we BOTH had a copy of, request payment for my time and no more heard.

 

Too many barrack room lawyers spoil the broth(el)

[Pete-M]

When I state "public" I'm referring to people I don't know.

 

That 53 plate Mondeo I had had a spectacularly noisy front wheel bearing. I drove it about four times before it was done, and each time I was bloody nervous about it. It passed the MOT (and a hackney test) like that as there wasn't any obvious play during the MOT test. When removed it was obvious that the bearing was utterly knackered and could have collapsed at any moment. It sounded like the car was being attacked by a Stuka when being driven but under MOT test procedures the thing was quiet (in a noisy workshop) and free of play, just very slightly notchy.

 

The bearing cost me £58 to buy, and an hour of swearing at a hydraulic press to fit, but I could not have sold the car as it was.

[The Reverend Bluejeans]

So bascially, do not sell a car with a mechanical problem. Growly wheel bearing, flaky looking flexys, pads almost on the metal. Just scrap the sodding thing.

 

Suits me fine - and the Chinese steel industry!

[Cavcraft]

Scooters had the bloke at his house for an hour before he bought it and did everything in his power to almost put the bloke off. Took him for a test drive, explained he shouldn't go over 40mph (at most) until it was fixed and went to great lengths to explain the car was needing attention and needing it quick.

 

My understanding is thus: bloke slanders/libels/whatever Scooter implying he (or someone he knew) deliberately 'fixed' the car so it would either last until he sold it and/or knacker up once sold.

I'd be a bit pissed off about that, especially after having spent yonks telling the buyer about the faults.

 

My personal conclusion:

 

Buyer was a fool. Yes, a fool. He's bought a dirt cheap car thatw as advertised as needing repairs. It was fully explained BEFORE he bought the car and he was as good as put off from buying it. He clearly didn't listen and clearly (to me) continued driving the car after purchase thinking all would be well.

Car knackers up, his missus spies her arse and he's took it to a garage who've attempted to pull his pants down. I suspect he's one of those twerps who buys a car with the only money he has leaving nothing for repairs. He's bought that car because he couldn't find another one in that price range (probably his full budget) with tax and MOT. He's assumed (probably more like hoped) it would never need to have a penny spent on it and just ignored what the seller told him. There are more people like him out there, people who just haven't got a clue then want to blame everyone else when things go wrong.

I cannot understand people who have 'X' amount to spend on a car and use the whole amount on the purchase price. If I had £700 (for example) to buy a car I'd get one for £500 and spend the rest on a basic service or keep the money back for any repairs that need doing.

[Pete-M]

So bascially, do not sell a car with a mechanical problem. Growly wheel bearing, flaky looking flexys, pads almost on the metal. Just scrap the sodding thing.

 

Suits me fine - and the Chinese steel industry!

 

Don't sell a dangerous car to someone who doesn't obviously completely understand what they're buying, no.

[lancashireclamper]

Must admit I was thinking to myself that armed with 250 sheets and a total ignorance of all things mechanical (Me down to a tee apart from having 250 quid to spend) an ageing Subaru Legacy would not suggest itself as the best idea I'd ever had.

The buyer seemed clued up enough to know a bargain when he saw one and, as mentioned Scooter went out of his way to flag up the cars mechanical state and what work was needed, unpeturbed our hero of the 25 tenners seemingly couldn't get his purse out fast enough, obviously he's a bit pee'd off when it goes wrong but the 3 volume novel he writes to Scooter is bang out of order, near death experiences, major suspension parts tampered with to defraud him out of next weeks bingo money etc, ok he doesn't mention compensation but am I being very cynical thinking he's testing the water rather than just venting his spleen at the villain of the peace who sells vehicles needing work for scrap prices?

FWIW I think Scooter was 100% right to take the stance he did rather than leave himself wide open to future action and unpleasantness, even if you give the buyer the benefit of the doubt (which I'm struggling to do) he still needs putting straight.

[chaseracer]

Anyone on here an expert in relevant Scottish law, like Scoots' brief? No? Enough opinion, then.

[Mr_Bo11ox]

We're all equally knowledgeable* about it

[chaseracer]

/\/\

 

Fair point well made, Bolleaux...

[Guest]

WHAT WE LEARNED TODAY

 

1. Scottish Law is different to the law in the UK,

 

2. Obvious lists are obvious,

 

3. The public are idiots,

 

4. Sub £500 cars tend to need quite a lot of work.

 

5. I love leather seats.

[ashmicro]

1. Scottish law is different to the law in THE REST of the UK.

 

 

EFA

 

 

Edit: I ran this past SWMBO, but she's (a) a Nothern Ireland solicitor and ( a prosecutor, so she's none the wiser than the rest of us.

[Cavcraft]

I ran it past my missus but apparantly she's watching some shit on telly about some dimwitted Essex people. And for that reason I'm off for a bath.

[The Reverend Bluejeans]

a dangerous car

 

And how do define dangerous? Pads low, tyres on the wear bar, bit of play on a track rod end? Sell a cheap car with any one of these defects, the Mong takes it to Kwikfit - cue a rigger booted bonus hungry tyre fitter sucking through teeth and it's 'you sold me a dangerous car. I take my kids to school in that' etc, etc, etc.

[cobblers]

a dangerous car

 

And how do define dangerous? Pads low, tyres on the wear bar, bit of play on a track rod end? Sell a cheap car with any one of these defects, the Mong takes it to Kwikfit - cue a rigger booted bonus hungry tyre fitter sucking through teeth and it's 'you sold me a dangerous car. I take my kids to school in that' etc, etc, etc.

 

EVERY car I can remember buying has been technically OMG DANGER. Most cars are - I bet if you did some kind of MEGA check on everything sub 1k on autotrader, there wouldn't be a lot left.

 

People buying shit cars should realise they are 1% of the original cost for a reason, or be shot.

[eddyramrod]

+1. The buyer in the original posting needs to man up and learn to live with his mistakes. I can't remember ever making such a fuss about a car I've bought, not even this one...

...which was the left rear floor (or non-floor!) of this...

I spent 2 years trying to find someone who could/would weld it for me, preferably without taking it elsewhere; and totally failed (with or without). So it went back on ebay and I took a slight loss. That's life. At least I can say I had one.

[Lankytim]

I've only ever sold cars through various Shite friendly "enthusiast" forums. People there know what to expect for £200-£300 odd. All old motors can be considered a "work in progress" in my book, i.e they WILL need work and a bit of TLC to keep on the road. Id be very wary of flogging anything like that to Joe public as most just want a cheap set of wheels to smoke about in for a while and are in no way shite "enthusiasts".

 

Theres no need to scrap perfectly good fautly cars when you can punt them on to a clued up forumite.

[scooters]

Last month I get pelters for scrapping a 306 this month I get pelters for not scrapping the scoob. You can't fucking win.

 

# bol....he only apologised after I threatened to pursue him

 

Further developments: mr s had both rear wheel bearings done when I was away. Onlyoy mentioned it to me when I was discussing it with her

 

The buyer was ment to contact me with the details of this garage so I could confirm the damage as all I had was his word for it....no word from him

 

Had I known that the car was likely to do what he said it did them would I have driven it to durham and back the weekend before it was sold with my kids in it.

 

As I have said I am happy to assist him but was mightily pissed off with the allegations he made especially the one about me or someone I know messing about with out to make it acceptable to sell.

 

Also I spent over snow hour with the old fart showing him all the issues I knew about and at no point did he ask anyquestions or inspect the vehicle.....hell I even took him on a test drive.

 

He also knows where I live andI needed to be firm...what if he was some sort of nutter?

That's my final word. Those of you who have traded with me know I am straight and rarely if ever sell tro make a profit. As the op says..never again

[Pete-M]

Theres no need to scrap perfectly good fautly cars when you can punt them on to a clued up forumite.

 

Exactly.

[scooters]

Theres no need to scrap perfectly good fautly cars when you can punt them on to a clued up forumite.

 

Exactly.

 

sorry but that assumes that clued up forum members want to buy the car.

 

I advertised both the pug and the scoob on multiple forums at scrap price for weeks and they did not sell.

 

I have no off road storage so the day the tax ran out I had no option but to weigh the pug in.

[messerschmitt owner]

why the fuss - 99.5% of all the old cars get scrapped - it's just the way of the world.

 

Who cares what happens to them - if you're that fussed you should buy them aaaalllllllll!!!!!

 

 

There's still plenty of old shite you can buy, so why worry!

 

Scooters, in this case, over the bridge was the better option in hindsight.

[sporty-shite]

Theres no need to scrap perfectly good fautly cars when you can punt them on to a clued up forumite.

 

 

I advertised both the pug and the scoob on multiple forums at scrap price for weeks and they did not sell.

 

 

And there's the rub. I'm nearing this position with the Cavalier. It's not taxed or tested, and I don't have it insured, so to get it tested, which I reckon it would pass with minimal work, would mean paying £27 for a days insurance. That plus £40 for the test, and will I get much more for it? I'm really reluctant to scrap it, as it is quite a nice one, but what else is there? It's on the drive at the moment, but Mrs S is getting sick of parking at the bottom of the street, and TBH, so am I.

 

So, unless there are shiters out there offering unlimited free storage for this chod until another shiter wants it, what are we to do? Although regional AS car pools would be pretty cool!

[garbaldy]

 

Further developments: mr s had both rear wheel bearings done when I was away. Onlyoy mentioned it to me when I was discussing it with her

 

 

 

this is a strange one i would now be wondering which one is telling the lies the new owner or the garage who may or may not have fixed your wheel bearings.