More Doovla woes

[cms206]

Got a message on facebook last night telling me that the Cavalier SRi had been clamped in the work's car park as it was untaxed. Took a wonder down last night, sure enough, sticker, clamp and sodden leaflet... but no contact details for the clamping firm or the pound. Work car park is ANPR'd up for entry/exit, on airport ground, subject to airport bylaws and about half a mile from the nearest access to the public highway.

 

Took plenty of pictures, had a look at the clamp... it wasn't actually attached to the car. As it's an offence to tamper with a clamp, I reversed off it, left the clamp sitting and got the car uplifted by a local, friendly type with a Transit. It's now securely hidden away, but on a scale of 1 to 10, how liable am I to be strung up now?

 

I can't see any offence having been committed as the car wasn't parked on public land and has a valid SORN until Feb 12, the clamp wasn't tampered with and it doesn't state anywhere that it is an offence to actually remove the vehicle, but seeing as it's done now I'll just need to wait for the fireworks.

[Tayne]

Private clamping is illegal in Scotland.

As I suspect that the doovla would leave contact details, I suspect you've been a victim of a chancer.

I'd be asking airport security if they have any such arrangements.

[hairnet]

works car park

 

airport land

 

ya'll be reet

 

if its anpr'd youll be able to tell them how long it been there and show them the sorn and give them the clamp back

[retrogeezer]

should have gone back later in a hoody and taken the clamp as well!

[cms206]

Fine has arrived for this offence - £421 to be paid in full, by the 22nd, or I'm going to court.

 

Should be jolly; been out snooping, and they allegedly saw the car on one street (access to the carpark it was in is from another, and as it had no battery and a flat tyre at the time it certainly wasn't on the road) and Glasgow Airport Byelaws 2005 state, at EVERY junction from the surrounding main roads...

 

"Roads (Scotland) Act 1984

 

Notice is hereby gicen that there is no public right of way over the lands known as Glasgow Airport to which this entrance affords access and there is no intention on the part of Glasgow Airport Limited to dedicate such land or any part thereof as a public road."

 

 

So... where do I go now? I'm buggered if I'm paying £421, but do I tell them now in a strongly worded letter or let them take me to court?

[HillmanImp]

I would not send a strongly worded letter as you will just wind them up. Just send a nice letter saying that they have made a mistake and explain why.

 

As an example, I was once a tax officer and if someone rang up and was nice I would try and help them out, even letting them off in a lot of cases if I felt they had been wronged. If they rang up being total arseholes I pretty much did my best to screw them over. My outlook was 'I earn £10k a year mate. I don't need you raging at me calling me a robbing bastard at 8.30am when I am on a comedown, why the fuck should I bother helping a miserable twat like you'.

 

I was not suggesting you were going to write to them like an arsehole, it was just an example. Could be a genuine error.

[Lankytim]

Go to court and ask them to prove the car was on the road. If it wasn't, they can't. Dont forget to ask for expenses!

 

Would they have to prove who was driving if it had been on the road? I'd expect so!

 

Of course it's best to avoid court action!

[The Reverend Bluejeans]

Fine has arrived for this offence - £421 to be paid in full, by the 22nd, or I'm going to court.

 

 

Who sent you the fine? DVLC? Really?

[cms206]

Who sent you the fine? DVLC? Really?

 

 

Really. Notice states the car was seen/parked on St Andrews Drive.

 

Which it wasn't.

[wuvvum]

Ask them to provide photographic evidence, otherwise it's their word against yours. I've gone to court against the DVLA and won several times - just because they have this corporate mentality that says they're always right doesn't mean that they are.

[lancashireclamper]

Definitely ask for photographic evidence, might just be that the reg plate has been cloned and you may end up with no end of parking fines, speeding tickets etc.

As previously mentinoned, be polite in all correspondence, any pics you can get off the airport parking signs, disclaimers etc can only come in handy later on.

[gtd2000]

Ask them to provide photographic evidence, otherwise it's their word against yours. I've gone to court against the DVLA and won several times - just because they have this corporate mentality that says they're always right doesn't mean that they are.

 

I think it's best to ask for the above and also advise them that the car was declared SORN while laid up in a private car park (not used on the road since), subsequently taken away on a flatbed Transit on (insert date) and is currently in storage on private land.

 

You'll have a witness who picked the car up with the transit - the plate would have been clocked by the ANPR camera too?

 

Are there any other cameras in the place were the car was parked?

 

If there is an issue about the clamping - I'd dig out the relevant information about the law in this regard - probably something do with trespass?

[In The Pit]

As mentioned id look into the fact that they may have trespassed on the airports land and tell them they could be liable for a fine themselves. I think that would shake them and they made drop the fine.

[cms206]

I'm shattered, just rattled this up... sound okay to you lot? Not really had too many dealings with Doovla on this level...

 

"Re: Unlicensed vehicle G341 NTO / Your Reference: 455 G341NTO

 

 

Dear Sir/Madam,

I received your letter regarding the above complaint and fine of £421.00 on January 17th 2012. I am writing to ask if it is possible to be provided photographic evidence that the above vehicle, registration number G341 NTO, was seen in St Andrews Drive “being used/kept on a public road whilst a SORN declaration was in force†on December 6th 2011 at 1140hrs as I have reason to believe that this was not the case.

 

I am contactable via the above telephone numbers or via e-mail at ...... and I look forward to your reply.

 

 

Thanks in advance."

 

 

Gonna post it in the morning, see what comes back...

[messerschmitt owner]

tell them where the vehicle was, when it was parked up there etc! and that it is private land.

[dollywobbler]

tell them where the vehicle was, when it was parked up there etc! and that it is private land.

 

Agreed. Don't just say you don't agree. Start hitting them with your side of the story now.

[cms206]

Second draft...

 

Re: Unlicensed vehicle G341 NTO / Your Reference: 455 G341NTO

 

 

Dear Sir/Madam,

I received your letter regarding the above complaint and fine of £421.00 on January 17th 2012. I am writing to ask if it is possible to be provided photographic evidence that the above vehicle, registration number G341 NTO, was seen in St Andrews Drive “being used/kept on a public road whilst a SORN declaration was in force†on December 6th 2011 at 1140hrs as I have reason to believe that this was not the case.

 

At the time the vehicle in question was allegedly seen, to my knowledge, it was parked in a private airport staff car park, on private land, with a valid airport parking permit and it was immobile. I have several witnesses who can corroborate the fact that the vehicle had not moved from the staff car park since approximately August 2010.

 

Entrance to the car park to which I refer is from Campsie Drive which is covered by the Glasgow Airport Byelaws 2005.

 

“Glasgow Airport Byelaws 2005

Roads (Scotland) Act 1984

 

Notice is hereby given that there is no public right of way over the lands known as Glasgow Airport to which this entrance affords access and there is no intention on the part of Glasgow Airport Limited to dedicate such land or any part thereof as a public road.â€Â

 

Clear signage (of which an example is enclosed) is present stating the above at the start of both sides of Arran Avenue at Abbotsinch Road, Sanderling Road at Abbotsinch Road/Inchinnan Road Roundabout, Sanderling Road at the roundabout at the end of the sliproad for M8 Junction 28, St Andrews Drive at M8 Junction 28 and St Andrews Drive West at M8 Junction 28 which cover access to Argyll Avenue, Arran Avenue, Bute Road, Campsie Drive, Caledonia Way East, Caledonia Way West, Caledonia Way, Nevis Way, Sandering Road, St Andrews Avenue, St Andrews Crescent, St Andrews Drive West, St Andrews Drive and White Cart Road.

 

As far as I can see the vehicle was therefore not being used or kept on a public road as alleged and as such I believe I have not committed any offence as alleged under Section 29 (3A) of the Vehicle Excise and Registration Act 1994, nor am I liable to any penalty.

I am contactable via the above telephone numbers or via e-mail at ..... and I look forward to your reply.

 

 

Thanks in advance.

 

 

[wuvvum]

I would take out the "to my knowledge" as this makes it sound like you're not 100% sure, and I would imagine the DVLA jobsworths will jump on that.

 

Also might be an idea to delete your email address from your post too - GR9 4 SPAMBOTZ.

[Timewaster]

That draft looks better, as above don't show any signs of doubt.

If it were me, I'd skip all the points of signage and simply put Clear signage (of which an example is enclosed) is present at entrance points to airport property

Good luck, I suspect they will drop the charge and run away.

[Mr_Bo11ox]

Don't forget to enclose a charcoal drawing of your meat and two veg, I enclose that with all DVLA correspondance and have not had a single problem yet.

[cms206]

Cheers guys, letter printed and in the envelope with the return form ready for postage tomorrow.

[Lankytim]

Dunno if anyone has mentioned, but make sure you send it recorded delivery. That way they can't just ignore it and carry on trying to prosecute you.

[Station]

I removed two clamps off two cars twice in succession, from the DVLA. One wasn't even in my name so I gladly removed the clamp(s). The second one was and I quickly moved the car to a garage.

I heard back about a month later requesting why I blahblahblah, and I replied saying my car was stolen and had been dumped there. I know I'm tempting fate, but it's been over seven months since I heard anything ...

It was parked in definite off-road parking - I'm not sure what the DVLA define as 'off-road'? Certainly not what anyone with common sense would.

 

CMS I think you're in the clear, they're only human (I think) and the clampers make mistakes, I doubt many of them actually know the correct clamping laws.

[Lankytim]

I think after alot of faffing the DVLA decided that anywhere that the authorities are not responsible for maintaining is deemed "off road". So if you park a car on a grass verge that the council has to mow then its still classed as on the road.

[e287yba]

Very approximately, if the public have "reasonable" access to a parking area, then cars parked and used there need to be road legal. The exception to this is the curtilage of private property - I assume this means a domestic property rather than commercial, so depending on the "car park" layout it could be argued that DVLA have overstepped the mark - naming a street some distance away is a definite nono though! Parking your own car on a driveway or garden while not road legal is fine - domestic curtilage, you see.

 

Incidentally, the Morrisons I frequent has notices saying that their 'through road' through the car park is not a public right of way and that it is gated at night (and it is) - but I have a pic of an untaxed "car for sale" in their car park with DVLA clamp in situ... They can do that legally, as the public have "reasonable" access to that car park.

 

Now, if DVLA hadn't lied about the street name they might have actually been acting within the law here - as above, it depends on the layout of the car park (are there locked gates, for example?). I am sure they have shot themselves in the foot by lying, but also they will take it to court and pull out with 5 minutes before your case is due to start and with all your witnesses ready .

 

 

Regardless... don't post the letter yet - rather, go to pepipoo.com and post on their forums for the best advice for you and your situation. Post up all the facts and they will support you in getting this overthrown .

[hairnet]

As mentioned id look into the fact that they may have trespassed on the airports land and tell them they could be liable for a fine themselves. I think that would shake them and they made drop the fine.

 

 

aye

 

that there is no public right of way over the lands known as Glasgow Airport to which this entrance affords access

 

so unless they work there what were they doing

[Parky]

Agree on Pepipoo. Sounds like it could be some chancer clamping firm trying it on.

 

Were you issued with a PENALTY charge notice or a PARKING charge notice? Penalty charge notices are issued by Plod and enforceable in court, Parking charge notices on the other hand are a civil matter. Pepipoo explains it nicely

[Parky]

And if its a private firm, dont send any correspondence before reading Pepipoo!

[dieselnutjob]

Maybe if the DVLA take you to court you should threaten them with a complaint for "perverting the course of justice" (i.e. lying) which is a criminal offence.

[scaryoldcortina]

^ I think "Perverting the course of justice" is an offence used in criminal law, whereas the DVLA are pursuing through the civil system.... I'm not an expert though so I could be wrong.