Bus Shite

[quicksilver]

T196 JBE by quicksilver coaches, on Flickr

This old shitter turned up in Oxford this morning. The photo flatters it as it has an advanced case of Autobus rot bubbling through the panels, repairs in primer and the legal lettering on a sheet of paper in the window - all signs of a quality* operator.

[Felly Magic]

The dying days of Autobus, when they were part of Optare

[Inspector Morose]

Always thought they had the look of metrorider about them. I wonder if they share body frames?

[Felly Magic]

I do suspect that a lot of Star Rider & MetroRider bits were used in the Nouvelle 2 body under the skin

[quicksilver]

I do suspect that a lot of Star Rider & MetroRider bits were used in the Nouvelle 2 body under the skin

I do suspect in the case of this particular one there is not much under the skin apart from brown rusty flakes. It looked ropey as hell and is certainly living up to their reputation as rotboxes.

[Split_Pin]

The Vario fought the good fight then!

[cms206]

 

 

I do suspect in the case of this particular one there is not much under the skin apart from brown rusty flakes.

Exactly like a Metrorider or StarRider then?!

[Roverageous]

I have a bit of a question for all you bus nerds. I live in the land of EYMS and have always had a vague interest in buses. I can remember in the final years they had Bristol VRs in service they used to put them on to our village, I loved them as the engines seemed to 'chug' at idle and make the bus rattle - I recently this is called 'booming'.

 

Anyway, I digress.

 

EYMS are very good with regards to enthusiasts and let people into depots to take photos / even have a dedicated enthusiasts website & twitter feed with live updates on which buses are in for checks, servicing, paint shop and repairs. It seems to me a LOT of buses that aren't very old seem to get replacement engines. By my count they have an '09 plate bus which is on its third engine now - I enquired as to why and was told it was a result of using it predominantly on an 'express' dual carriageway service - I can't see why that would be a problem? Is it normal for buses to get replacement engines on such a regular basis? The mileages don't even seem that high (fleet averaging <300k per engine!).

[cms206]

I have a bit of a question for all you bus nerds. I live in the land of EYMS and have always had a vague interest in buses. I can remember in the final years they had Bristol VRs in service they used to put them on to our village, I loved them as the engines seemed to 'chug' at idle and make the bus rattle - I recently this is called 'booming'.

 

Anyway, I digress.

 

EYMS are very good with regards to enthusiasts and let people into depots to take photos / even have a dedicated enthusiasts website & twitter feed with live updates on which buses are in for checks, servicing, paint shop and repairs. It seems to me a LOT of buses that aren't very old seem to get replacement engines. By my count they have an '09 plate bus which is on its third engine now - I enquired as to why and was told it was a result of using it predominantly on an 'express' dual carriageway service - I can't see why that would be a problem? Is it normal for buses to get replacement engines on such a regular basis? The mileages don't even seem that high (fleet averaging <300k per engine!).

 

 

In part modern buses tend to use high power, low capacity engines - the Volvo B7TL for example used a 6.7 litre engine putting out about 250bhp, but that has since been replaced by the B5TL with an even smaller engine with similar power; the Bristol VR3 had 10.45 litres putting out about 180bhp at most meaning it wasn't at all stressed. Leyland Leopards? 180bhp from 11.1 litres. Enviro 300? 245bhp from 5.9 litres.

 

Conversely in my last place of work we had a Mercedes 709D minibus on about 600k miles on it's original engine and I've seen well over the 750k mile mark on a Volvo B10M with it's original engine.

[Roverageous]

In part modern buses tend to use high power, low capacity engines - the Volvo B7TL for example used a 6.7 litre engine putting out about 250bhp, but that has since been replaced by the B5TL with an even smaller engine with similar power; the Bristol VR3 had 10.45 litres putting out about 180bhp at most meaning it wasn't at all stressed. Leyland Leopards? 180bhp from 11.1 litres. Enviro 300? 245bhp from 5.9 litres.

 

Conversely in my last place of work we had a Mercedes 709D minibus on about 600k miles on it's original engine and I've seen well over the 750k mile mark on a Volvo B10M with it's original engine.

I suppose that must be part of it. But in the case of cars, for example, we had a Rover T series engined 800 which gave out (IIRC) 136bhp. That is now in the realms of the 1.0l Ford Ecoboost engine. I wouldn't buy a Ford with an ecoboost engine if it wouldn't last the 150,000 miles the Rover did. Is it not the same with buses? At what point are the savings of better fuel economy wiped out by unreliability? Three engines for an 09 registered bus still seems an awful lot to me! And the fact that it sits on an 8 mile stretch of dual carriageway every day doesn't wash with me either - surely constant running at a higher RPM will be better for it than chugging round town?

[Felly Magic]

That fateful day when I was doing a 'banger' (Yorkshire Rider slang for overtime) on the 56 route, had an ALX 400 B7TL on it, engine was knocking, gave a shout on the radio to cuntrol* that it sounded rough, was advised that the fitter was gonna meet me at the terminus, said 'ok', 1/4 mile up the road, BANG, engine dies, coast it to a stop. Go and have a nosey, see large lake of oil on the road, and notice a trail of bits of metal, pops the bonnet and notice a hole in the crank case where a conrod had made a bid for freedom.  Back on the radio, tell em to ignore the fitter and just send for a wrecker. 

 

Anyhoo, new bus engines seem to have bugger all torque, and rely on being boosted to fuck, and B9TL's oh boy, 6 speed auto, and in 3rd gear by 15 mph with the engine out of the torque band, so its struggling all the time, and no kickdown either, or hold gears, so on hills they are up and down the box. Modern buses are also very thirsty, and its good fun setting the dashboards up to show current mpg, under 1 mpg is possible on hills. 

 

Bus companies seem to often use cheap diesel with a bio mix too, which modern engines detest, and the fuel pumps simply give up the ghost

[dollywobbler]

Buses have to meet ever-stronger emission regs too, which is why manufacturers are going the small capacity route. As with passenger cars, getting diesels to be cleaner takes a lot of kit and strain and reliability seems to go out of the window. Not much bus companies can do though, as regs dictate what they can and can't use. For instance, for school runs out our way, Euro emissions regs need to be met - which is why there's no really old chod on bus duty here. I've seen Altanteans and other late 70s/early 80s bus chod elsewhere.

[Felly Magic]

2 recent bits o bus shite spotted in town recently, an ex London Dennis Trident now converted to an exhibition unit, which was new to Armchair, and a local Volvo B7TL that's had a tart up with proper leather interior, and 'heritage' livery. 

 

 

[Split_Pin]

Gardner: 10845cc, 180 shire horses

Volvo B7tl: 7 litres, 250 lean, flighty ponies.

[rml2345]

Volvo B7tl: 7 litres, 250 lean, flighty ponies.

Going by the ex First London examples around here there's about 14 ancient, arthritic, three legged ponies left in them.

[Inspector Morose]

That reminds me. I must find a replacement lump for the trident I blew up earlier in the year. Anyone got a 245bhp cummins c series knocking around in the back of their garage?

 

Using modern buses in the exhibition business ( the one above isn't one of ours but we've got three tridents now) has DOUBLED our fuel bill overnight. The two week tour for Barr construction I did used 550 litres of fuel in the end.

[willswitchengage]

In part modern buses tend to use high power, low capacity engines - the Volvo B7TL for example used a 6.7 litre engine putting out about 250bhp, but that has since been replaced by the B5TL with an even smaller engine with similar power; the Bristol VR3 had 10.45 litres putting out about 180bhp at most meaning it wasn't at all stressed. Leyland Leopards? 180bhp from 11.1 litres. Enviro 300? 245bhp from 5.9 litres.

 

Conversely in my last place of work we had a Mercedes 709D minibus on about 600k miles on it's original engine and I've seen well over the 750k mile mark on a Volvo B10M with it's original engine.

 

Travel West Midlands still had Y reg Metrobi in service until a few years ago. 10.5L 180hp.

 

Didn't First Glasgow rival it for some ancient Ailsas of similar age only recently retired?

[rml2345]

First Glasgow did have some similarly ancient Ailsas in service at about the same time but they were still a bit "Live fast, die young" even then.

 

Smoke Screen by routemaster2345, on Flickr

 

The last time I saw them used in anger.

[cms206]

Travel West Midlands still had Y reg Metrobi in service until a few years ago. 10.5L 180hp.

 

Didn't First Glasgow rival it for some ancient Ailsas of similar age only recently retired?

First Glasgow's Ailsas ran until around 2004/05; the eldest in service at that time were A11/27/136/137 (CSU 219/235X, HSF 86/91X). Larkfield ran most of the older ones and theirs went first, followed shortly after by Scotstouns. All well pretty tired by the end up and few survived into preservation. Edwards of Llantwit Fardre (sp?) still ran Ailsas until about a fortnight ago.

[Split_Pin]

I used to get an Ailsa on the 44 right up until they were withdrawn and I moved away. They were indeed tired but all were over 20 years old by then and the fact that they survived for so long at the ruthless hands of First Glasgow was nothing short of fupping amazing.

 

It also shows that a small turbocharged engine can be a workable proposition. Then again, being Scottish built, they had about 220 double hard, barefisted neds under the engine cover. Having said that, by 2005, they were all dying of syphillis and liver failure.

[cms206]

I used to get an Ailsa on the 44 right up until they were withdrawn and I moved away. They were indeed tired but all were over 20 years old by then and the fact that they survived for so long at the ruthless hands of First Glasgow was nothing short of fupping amazing.

 

It also shows that a small turbocharged engine can be a workable proposition. Then again, being Scottish built, they had about 220 double hard, barefisted neds under the engine cover. Having said that, by 2005, they were all dying of syphillis and liver failure.

The thing about the Ailsas is that right up to the end they were out eighteen hours a day on trunk services because they went out, did their shift and came back in. It wasn't unusual to see them running light from East Kilbride or Newton Mearns back to base well after midnight.

[Inspector Morose]

Much, much Ailsa love from over here. When I had my VR I used to go drinking with the chap with the WMPTE one (now he has two ish). He'd not long bought it ad was still red. Many a thrash around the country was made in it to collect parts or visit Black Prince, the legendary Leeds Ailsa operator.

 

Did a drag race with it against the VR. Up to 15 the VR was quicker but when the Ailsa got into its stride, it left me for dust. Legend has it that when WMPTE were still running theirs, one of them (4746 to be exact) achieved 66mph on road test one night. Screaming legends, they were.

[Grundig]

 

[Felly Magic]

Much, much Ailsa love from over here. When I had my VR I used to go drinking with the chap with the WMPTE one (now he has two ish). He'd not long bought it ad was still red. Many a thrash around the country was made in it to collect parts or visit Black Prince, the legendary Leeds Ailsa operator.

 

Did a drag race with it against the VR. Up to 15 the VR was quicker but when the Ailsa got into its stride, it left me for dust. Legend has it that when WMPTE were still running theirs, one of them (4746 to be exact) achieved 66mph on road test one night. Screaming legends, they were.

I know said Ailsa loving gent, top bloke, currently has an Ailsa for sale too 

[Grundig]

 

[Felly Magic]

Argh ALX200 Volvo B6LE, shite chassis, shite body, Howards group...., cop this crock of crap seen today though, Dennis Lance, paired with ELCB body, double whammy of utter wank. 

 

[Noel Tidybeard]

Much, much Ailsa love from over here. When I had my VR I used to go drinking with the chap with the WMPTE one (now he has two ish). He'd not long bought it ad was still red. Many a thrash around the country was made in it to collect parts or visit Black Prince, the legendary Leeds Ailsa operator.

 

Did a drag race with it against the VR. Up to 15 the VR was quicker but when the Ailsa got into its stride, it left me for dust. Legend has it that when WMPTE were still running theirs, one of them (4746 to be exact) achieved 66mph on road test one night. Screaming legends, they were.

talkining of rapido west midlands buses i went on one of the H***LOM plate scanias wm used on the 50 route- damn it was quick

i always wondered why they disappeared so soon

[dollywobbler]

Aye. Those Scanias were proper quick, and made a great whooshing noise when floored. They seemed to break down a lot though.

[Partridge]

Hmmm, this thread is re-activating my inner bus veg...

[dollywobbler]

Scottish-bodied-Swede.

3202 H202LOM by GarethJones79