M5 crash

[freebird]

I dont think anybody can do anything about stuff like this, its been happening for decades. When you drive into a dense fog bank what do you do? Do you slow down to 20 mph and hope the person behind you isnt doing 50 and the person infront isnt doing 10MPH?

There will now be a huge amount of ammo for the anti increase Motorway speed limit brigade, which is a pity really, driver inattention and inapppropriate use of speed causes accidents not speed itself.

i dont think you can totally blame lorry drivers, although id like to see them kept to the inner lane and maybe give haulage companies tax breaks to get the bulk of deliveries done in the early hours of the morning, maybe allow them to go faster on empty Motorways. in fairness, crashes like this are made worse by lorries, no doubt, but what can you do?

[retrogeezer]

Yeh, at the end of the day it's an accident. No-one goes out in their car/truck thinking they will plough into other vehicles but tragically it sometimes happens.

 

Hope the death toll is not too high but the fires looked terrible so it's not looking good.

[freebird]

Yeh, at the end of the day it's an accident. No-one goes out in their car/truck thinking they will plough into other vehicles but tragically it sometimes happens.

 

Hope the death toll is not too high but the fires looked terrible so it's not looking good.

Thats one thing i am curious about, the fires. I was lead to believe that moderns dont automatically go up in flames after a medium/heavy impact.

There is that much safety gear on cars/trucks why were there so many fires because it did look like there were fire pockets all over the place?

[chaseracer]

If a metal box, containing fuel and equipped with a complex electrical system, is hit hard enough to cause a leak and a spark...

[Amazo]

Watching the footage of the M5 crash aftermath, now I'm second-guessing about driving along the M40 this afternoon.

 

EDIT:

 

I had to take a safer driving course a few years back where they told the whole story of how the M4 pile-up happened:

 

 

Its fair to say I've never forgotten the lesson.

[dollywobbler]

Well, if people actually pay a bit more attention, perhaps some good will come out of this tragedy. Over 10 dead they reckon. Chilling.

[warren t claim]

So what is better then?

 

People criticise HGVs for driving too close but the only reason we do this is to get close enough to pull out and overtake without causing a tailback in the middle lane.

 

Speed limiters on trucks is a stupid idea. The 48-50mph limiters that supermarket hauliers are increasingly using is just selfish and dangerous forcing slow traffic to hog the middle lane.

[trigger]

 

Looking at this image it's amazing that there's 27 vehicles involved, I also notice it's on the end of a slip road, maybe someone's came out in front of a lorry who's had to brake hard jackknifing it in which caused the accident.

 

You can't really speculate what's cased it though and blaming lorry drivers is just daft, These things happen so quickly, I'll bore you with the one i had last year.

 

I was just going along doing a steady 70 mph with a big gap when mine happened, all it took was one car up ahead to pull out in front of this 307...

 

P1050283 by Trigger's Retro Road Tests!, on Flickr

 

That resulted in this Ibiza full of young teenagers (who was tailgating as i was watching) hitting into her and coming to a sudden stop.

 

P1050281 by Trigger's Retro Road Tests!, on Flickr

 

P1050279 by Trigger's Retro Road Tests!, on Flickr

 

I managed to stop inches from her boot, then all i heard was the frightful sound of tyres skidding, i looked in my mirror and saw this Avensis ploughing down on me.

 

2007 Toyota Avensis by Trigger's Retro Road Tests!, on Flickr

 

hitting me at about 40 mph and slamming me into the car in front, (at this point i was shitting myself about having a lorry plough into him and straight through us).

 

P1050278 by Trigger's Retro Road Tests!, on Flickr

 

P1050280 by Trigger's Retro Road Tests!, on Flickr

 

All this took happened in about 7 seconds, It's made me a much more weary driver now and my wife is even worse, When i see cars tailgating and even lorries tailgating cars it makes me shiver, You wouldn't stand a chance.

[retrogeezer]

and the car that pulled out in front of the 307????? Just disappeared off up the road oblivious to what carnage it had caused I guess?

 

Eyewitness report:

 

A black fog came down very very fast and the Iceland truck in front of us literally disappeared.

"We managed to break and not hit the truck but the carnage had started and all we heard was 'thump thump thump' and we were waiting to be hit and end up under the lorry.

[warren t claim]

Just to echo Trigs assumption there are plenty of people who are just too incompetent when it comes to joining a motorway. Several times recently I've come across dithering idiots who REFUSE to accelerate hard up a slip road to get into a reasonable gap between traffic. They just expect large vehicles to pull into the middle lane to accommodate them, even though the middle lane is occupied!

 

Here's a scary fact.

 

New drivers who pass their test in Wirral now learn to drive and sit their test without exceeding an indicated 50mph (true speed about 47ish) due to the local anti speed local authority lowering the speed limits on dual carriageways.

 

Another factor causing slip road accidents in my area is the council painting off half the slip rads reducing them to one lane entering the motorway in the misguided belief that overtaking and accelerating to join a 70mph road is dangerous. Quite the opposite is true. Wankers.

[DSdriver]

Its absolutely terrible, the Police have just confirmed seven dead and 51 injured. My sympathies to all those affected.

They did at one time try and bring in a code for driving in fog on motorways, trucks to keep to the nearside lane, cars in the middle lane and the outside lane left free for emergency vehicles. Obviously not enough was spent on promoting the idea and educating motorists who have just carried on as normal, hoping it never happens to them.

[Pete-M]

So what is better then?

 

People criticise HGVs for driving too close but the only reason we do this is to get close enough to pull out and overtake without causing a tailback in the middle lane.

 

Speed limiters on trucks is a stupid idea. The 48-50mph limiters that supermarket hauliers are increasingly using is just selfish and dangerous forcing slow traffic to hog the middle lane.

 

The 48-50 mph limiters are stupid, yes, but if there's a truck doing 50 mph then at least a truck doing 56 can get past it as the 50 mph truck can't do the usual stunt of never lifting off to let anyone pass. The 56 mph limiters that all trucks should have is not so stupid.

 

I'm not going to get into my usual Trucker-related rant, but there's not much can be done without educating and / or heavily penalising truckers for their selfish overtaking stunts. Removing their limiters will just result in more trucks racing and refusing to give way to each other than already happens. If they can't even be trusted to behave decently when they're all limited to 56 mph then there's no way I'd want them doing 65, 70, or 80 mph.

 

Let 'em slipstream each other, if they get killed for the sake of 0.00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000001 mph and the chance of a 25 year long overtaking stunt then they have nobody to blame but themselves. Darwin would be proud.

 

You're right about the non-speedy sliproads. They are fucking dangerous.

[retrogeezer]

Doesn't look like there is much of a slip road onto the motorway in that pic does it. And being on a bend just makes it even more dangerous.

 

As already said, lots of folk don't understand that you need to accelerate up to motorway speeds on the slip road to 'slip' into the traffic. And then there are the idiots that just pull into the inside lane at 35mph expecting everyone brake hard.

 

Even had one woman pull out from the services one night at 1am, clear road no other traffic other than me and I move to the middle lane as I can see the car coming out of the services ahead. I get about 30 feet behind them and they move from the slip lane straight across the inside lane and in front of me doing 70!

[trigger]

 

Dear god...

[Cavcraft]

Having just this minute got back from a jaunt up the M53 I'm actually amazed there aren't more crashes like this. Some fellow northerners may know there's a 50mph limit on most of that motorway at the moment but it doesn't stop bellends pulling on to the carriage at break neck speeds, tailgaters and those arse wipes who think the speed limit doesn't apply to them.

The most incredulous thing was being followed by a marked up V70 rozzermobile and being overtaken at speeds of probably 80+ by the usual tosspots in 4x4s.

[retrogeezer]

 

Dear god...

 

 

Well, I can count about 16 'visible' cars there. That means there are 11 cars crushed between 2 of the lorries on the inside lane?

[dollywobbler]

What's interesting is one eye-witness report that 'black fog descended.' Now, I'm no meteorologist, but that doesn't sound like a natural thing. If there was a bonfire nearby though...

[Volksy]

Not sure if i'm right, pretty sure I heard this somewhere, but isn't it unnaturally foggy round bonfire night due to all the particles in the air

[simmo]

On the radio (LBC I think) they were saying that there was a bonfire near by, but then later someone that heard it said it was after the event but they may of meant after the fireworks.

[504GL]

I don't really know how truck drivers are meant to be safer. Perhaps leave a mile between them and any other vehicle? Not really practical is it? Don't know if you've ever tried maintaining a sizeable gap on a motorway but people tend to just jump into it. If you keep easing off every time it happens, you'll end up going nowhere. Happens a lot when you're driving slow stuff!

 

Worryingly, this isn't the only place I've seen people blaming the truck drivers for this accident. Like anyone knows the facts yet!

 

I agree. Pisses me off no end.

 

I like to give myself a space on the motorway which I can stop within. If someone comes into that zone I will either slow down or give them a windscreen full of washer fluid and will rest my foot on the brake pedal enough to get the brake light lit up. My wife thinks I'm confrontational, but it's my fugging space and I'm responsible for keeping myself and her safe. If I piss someone off I don't give a flying fuck, I want to stay alive thanks.

[Volksy]

If someone comes into that zone I will either slow down or give them a windscreen full of washer fluid and will rest my foot on the brake pedal enough to get the brake light lit up.

 

Then you are a danger on the roads IMHO.

[504GL]

If someone comes into that zone I will either slow down or give them a windscreen full of washer fluid and will rest my foot on the brake pedal enough to get the brake light lit up.

 

Then you are a danger on the roads IMHO.

 

Best to let them just tailgate me and hope for the best then I suppose

[504GL]

The 48-50 mph limiters are stupid, yes, but if there's a truck doing 50 mph then at least a truck doing 56 can get past it as the 50 mph truck can't do the usual stunt of never lifting off to let anyone pass. The 56 mph limiters that all trucks should have is not so stupid.

 

And a truck hitting you at 50 is going to do less damage than one hitting you at 70 or above......

[wuvvum]

The 48-50 mph limiters are stupid, yes, but if there's a truck doing 50 mph then at least a truck doing 56 can get past it as the 50 mph truck can't do the usual stunt of never lifting off to let anyone pass. The 56 mph limiters that all trucks should have is not so stupid.

 

And a truck hitting you at 50 is going to do less damage than one hitting you at 70 or above......

In certain circumstances, yes. A 38-tonne artic running into the side of a stationary supermini at 50 is still going to drive straight through it and out the other side, same as it would at 70.

[504GL]

The 48-50 mph limiters are stupid, yes, but if there's a truck doing 50 mph then at least a truck doing 56 can get past it as the 50 mph truck can't do the usual stunt of never lifting off to let anyone pass. The 56 mph limiters that all trucks should have is not so stupid.

 

And a truck hitting you at 50 is going to do less damage than one hitting you at 70 or above......

In certain circumstances, yes. A 38-tonne artic running into the side of a stationary supermini at 50 is still going to drive straight through it and out the other side, same as it would at 70.

 

Well yes, but if he's only slowing down from 50 then you've got more chance. Personally I think a big problem in the UK is that most freight goes by road rather than by rail like in a good deal of other countries. No accident is ever going to be pretty, but if we have lower limits which are still reasonable (as they are at the moment) then this can only be a good thing.

 

The UK seriously needs to think about having limits for wet and foggy conditions like they do in France.

[wuvvum]

Aye, although the wet & foggy limit in France is only 2mph lower than the normal limit here...

[Felly Magic]

Too many people see speed limits as a target, and no matter what the conditions are, they must be doing that speed (or above in a lot of cases). One thing that galls me big time though, is lorries....Too many Yorkie munchers sit on their limiters at 56, with barely 20ft between them. These people are supposed to be professional drivers.

[Polystratus]

Having just this minute got back from a jaunt up the M53 I'm actually amazed there aren't more crashes like this. Some fellow northerners may know there's a 50mph limit on most of that motorway at the moment but it doesn't stop bellends pulling on to the carriage at break neck speeds, tailgaters and those arse wipes who think the speed limit doesn't apply to them.

The most incredulous thing was being followed by a marked up V70 rozzermobile and being overtaken at speeds of probably 80+ by the usual tosspots in 4x4s.

 

Agree especially on the section of M1 I sometimes drive on - Juncs 30-28, always accidents on that bit of section, it's only a matter of time that something like this is going to happen.

[504GL]

Aye, although the wet & foggy limit in France is only 2mph lower than the normal limit here...

 

Well obviously the limits need to be lower. I didn't say exactly the same limit, just a similar way of doing things

[dollywobbler]

I wouldn't slag truck drivers off until you've had a go. Ok, so I've only driven 7.5tonners as I don't have LGV, but they're still limited to 56mph these days. It's a real eye-opener. Car drivers seem to just regard truckers as scum of the road which seems unfair as I can count many more incidents of twats in cars than I can twats in trucks. Yes, I imagine it is possible to get a bit blase about the dangers when you're pottering along at 56mph for hours on end, often for years with no incident, just as Mr Manager gets a bit blase about hurling along at 90mph while chatting to people about Blue Sky Thinking and which bird is currently the biggest babe.

 

You can't drive along expecting death to leap up in front of you at any moment. You wouldn't leave your house. You can pay attention - and this has saved me more than once - and you can try and drive properly, but when disaster happens, it happens. I count myself very lucky that no incident has occurred that has left me thinking 'this might be curtains.' You never know what's around that bend, or in front of that truck/van you're behind, or what's ploughing through the central reservation.