Banger Racing. Not the stolen to race thread.

[freebird]

Banger racing. As British as, erm, Fish and Chips and a Sunday roast.

Some very skilled drivers, cars prepared to look a million dollars making you think that they were "way too good to banger" when they were really rotten shit boxes and a movement that appears to be very happy to help out old car buffs by selling on all the parts that they strip from there rotten old sheds.

Yes, some cars have been stolen to race and, yes there are naughty men in the sport but we are going to ignore all of that and just look at Banger racing as a whole, a cheap form of racing where the best drivers are the most skilled and not the luckiest.

Discuss....or dont.

[Tayne]

Whilst there are many differences between competitive driving on a closed course and everday driving on public roads I feel that the desire not to crash should be one if the similarities.

And it can't be that cheap if you have buy and prep a new car every 1-2 meetings.

[dollywobbler]

Whilst there are many differences between competitive driving on a closed course and everday driving on public roads I feel that the desire not to crash should be one if the similarities.

And it can't be that cheap if you have buy and prep a new car every 1-2 meetings.

 

Ditto. Folk are paying up to and sometimes more than a grand for a car to race, especially historics. That's just not right. I'd have no problem if it really was a 'final blaze of glory' for some beyond-hope shitbox, but it isn't and sadly that is a fact.

 

Besides, who's to say that a car is beyond redemption? A banger racer is going to have a very different view on the matter than someone like Philibusmo for instance, who seems most unperturbed by a Lancia that's more rust than metal.

 

Sorry. I just don't like it.

[Cavcraft]

Great fun to watch, went to Buxton a few years back and really enjoyed it. They had some sorts if stocks racing too so it was good value for money.

If racers are prepared to spend all that time getting their cars up to spec (to race) then fair play to them. Just as there will be tossers and thieves amongst them the classic car market has its share too.

[Tonka]

The last 2 cars I raced back in 1999 were a rank rotten Triumph Acclaim bought from the local scrappy that ultimately caused me to have spinal surgery and a written-off Mk3 Escort Estate from Universal Salvage, how ironic that I saved from scrap and ran an Acclaim as a daily last year and have just bought that MK3 Escort Estate to use regularly!

 

Although many people are quick to tar all racers with the same brush where do all the MK1 & 2 Escorts, Minis and the like that get stolen go to? certainly not a banger track, me thinks either something much smoother or made of gravel........

 

In every sport there are people who play fair, are genuine enthusiasts, then there are those who don't give a f*ck what it costs but have to win whatever it takes.

 

To have a proper rational debate is an excellent idea but sadly I doubt this thread will do anything other than decend into "all banger racers are thieves" 3 pages in so I throw in this thought, should classic racing and rallying be stopped? after all they source perfectly usable cars to re-shell (RING) their damaged motor not unloved, worthless, neglected or rotten cars that the usual market has turned it's nose up at.

[freebird]

Whilst there are many differences between competitive driving on a closed course and everday driving on public roads I feel that the desire not to crash should be one if the similarities.

And it can't be that cheap if you have buy and prep a new car every 1-2 meetings.

 

Ditto. Folk are paying up to and sometimes more than a grand for a car to race, especially historics. That's just not right. I'd have no problem if it really was a 'final blaze of glory' for some beyond-hope shitbox, but it isn't and sadly that is a fact.

 

Besides, who's to say that a car is beyond redemption? A banger racer is going to have a very different view on the matter than someone like Philibusmo for instance, who seems most unperturbed by a Lancia that's more rust than metal.

 

Sorry. I just don't like it.

Yes, some people are paying up to more than a grand to race a car, some folk are paying up to a grand to buy a car to use as their everyday transport.

Amazingly tho, Cavette has just bought a daily for £100.

The point is nobody HAS to pay the thick end of a four figure sum to go and race a banger,do they? Its their money and its their choice.

Its a bit tiring to hear the same hackneyed old argument about whether or not a car is beyond redemption. Facts are facts, you think a car is saveable, buy the bloody car!

Philibusmo has saved a classic car, fair play to him, but not every car is going to find a willing buyer to restore it, you really cannot save everything.

No, I dont like classics being bangered but im a realist, you want to save an oldie, stop whinging and put your hands in your pocket.

How many cars have ended up on the track because the seller has desperately and unsuccessfully tried to find a loving owner for it?

Not too long ago, under that government scheme, some dealers were hawking perfectly good classics around because they did not want to see them go to the crusher and, TBF, many struggled to find a buyer. How many that did vetted the buyer to ensure they were not going onto a track? Not many.

Yes, it costs money to race but compared to other forms of motor sport it is far cheaper. Much of the prep work can be carried over to other cars and, even if they go through two cars a month, that can still be cheaper than HP on a new car.

Mr Sparrow is smarter than the average bear

[theorganist]

I agree with Dollywobblers point, I thought the idea of banger racing was to race old Bangers, is the clue not in the name?

 

I have absolutely no problem with banger racing it is obviously fun and an good day out if you have young children. A girl I work with takes her young children to Hednesford and they love it. I do question the skill element as it is quite easy to ram into cars, just look at your local supermarket car park!

 

If I was writing the rules of banger racing I would put an upper price limit to ensure that people dont'g go and spend over a thousand pounds on a road legal Austin Westminster. The guy who I bought my Maxi off was always getting offers from Banger Racers even though it is structurally sound, unfortunately as Maxi's are still quite cheap they seem to be quite in demand for racing.

 

It may be the minority but racing decent cars tends to cloud the overall argument that banger racers only race cars fit for scrap. In my opinion those who do only race fit for scrap cars should stand against those who do spend a lot of money on a perfectly decent car, which I know a lot of racers do frown upon.

 

Surely by now cars from the sixties and seventies are rare enough now for people to say hold on these are too valuable to be wrecked. There are loads of cheap moderns on e-bay.

[dollywobbler]

The argument that classic fans should somehow stump up to same cars from being bangered is utter stupidity. Why are classics going up in value? Because fewer are left. Why are fewer left? Because people are paying good money just so they can smash one to bits. No one classic car enthusiast can stump up and save all cars threatened with oval action, so to say "stump up or it'll be raced" is ridiculous.

 

I agree to a point that circuit and rally racers are also taking cars and turning them into racers, but there the idea is not to crash them - even if that's not always possible. Once a car is a banger, it's dead. A circuit racer or rally car could be taken back to road specification. Some historic racers have been taking to the track for decades. A banger lasts a handful of races and then it's bean tins.

 

The banger community doesn't help itself. Having pre-68, All-Westminster races and stuff like that seems deliberately staged to provoke angst in the classic car world. 100 Westminsters all destroyed. The knock-on effect is that cheap Westminsters aren't out there anymore. Hoorah for more valuable classics or boo because now I can't afford a Westminster?

 

Reliant Robins are another case in point. Where have the original Mk1s all gone? They've mainly been destroyed in racing. Thousands of them. No longer can you buy a roadworthy one for a couple of hundred quid.

 

For me, banger racing should only use cars that are condemned. Instead of going to a baling machine, they get a diversion via the oval. That isn't what happens though is it?

[autofive]

want to be in a band but can't play an instrument?

 

take up drumming. It's the 'basic'; the beating of a drumskin, instead of your wife

 

want to race on a closed circuit but have no skills or money?

 

take up banger racing. It's the 'basic' beating a car to death, instead of beating other competitors to the finish line.

[SambaS]

Cars over 25 years old could get a historic marker at the doovla, free road fund license, and it could be made illegal to destroy them other than at a licensed for the purpose breakers. Banger racing is good fun but should be for moderns. I guess that would be a similar attitude as that towards historic buildings, yes it's your money, but you cant just go tearing bits down and doing as you like.

[Luxobarges_Are_Us]

WARNING: ECONOMICS-BASED DRIVEL FOLLOWS. THIS IS NOT SCIENTIFIC ANALYSIS. DYOR, IANAL, ESP etc.

 

From a pure free-market perspective (yes, I know, this is ideologically biased but bear with me), banger racing isn't that bad because, as Ian says, it restricts supply.

 

Is there any real benefit to anyone being able to buy a perfectly good Solara for £300? I mean, if you're just after a cheap car you'll buy a 306 or a W-reg Escort. If you own an interesting old car and you know it's never going to fetch over £800, no matter how many thousands you spend on it, you are going to be inclined to keep expenditure to a minimum. A few years later, you end up in a position of all the Orions in circulation facing the crusher because by now they really are uneconomical to repair. Aggresively restricting supply through banger racing helps establish a floor in prices which incentivises people to keep their old cars in better condition, in the long term possibly saving as many, or perhaps more, cars as it destroys.

 

Discuss.

[theorganist]

But if you want to buy a Solara you are not likely going to consider alongside a Peugeot 306 are you?! A car like that is not usually going to be considered for a daily driver!

 

My first Maxi cost £200, my 1100 was £450. I would not have been able to purhcase either if they were four figure sums.

 

I don't want Maxi prices to go through the roof as I want as many people as possible to enjoy them and likewise with other cars!

 

Also the less there are on the road the less knowledge there is likely to be and possibly less chance of spares as the demand will drop and it is likely parts may just be disposed of. Someone said once it was okay as long as one example of every car survives, well I don't ever want to be the only one driving an Austin Maxi around.

[Cheggers]

I don't want Maxi prices to go through the roof as I want as many people as possible to enjoy them and likewise with other cars!

 

It's a very fair & worthy idea, but we need to accept that demand for "our kind of cars" is somewhat limited. It goes back to the point that Luxobhaji made so well about supply & demand, today (even for the humble Maxi) supply greatly outweighs demand so they're prime oval-fodder. If you take the "ideal world" example to its logical conclusion, eventually there'll be one left for everyone that wants one and none left for the banger boys. Right now, something has to happen to all the rest...if they don't find their way to the oval they'll only end up getting fragged or rotting away as a garden ornament.

 

Yes, I also hate to see those rare occasions when a genuine "only one left" gets raced, but currently there's also no shortage of old barges that won't be missed.

[dollywobbler]

In conclusion, all I'll say is I don't like banger racing and no amount of defence is going to change that. It's the same as me not liking modern art. I'd rather people did something more constructive with their time.

[The Reverend Bluejeans]

I dislike 'classic' banger racing intensely. If it's strong enough to oval, it's strong enough to be repaired and used on the road. The sad thing about seeing 50's and 60's car bangered now is that these cars were old bangers when I was a nipper. They've survived the original banger/scrapyard cull, lasted 40-50 years only for some rigger booted moron (RBM) smash it up for fun.

If it's an A60 that's been rotting in a scrapyard for 15 years then there is a case for it. However, when the RBM's start smashing up rare stuff like Mercedes 600's and pre war Yanks, that takes it to a whole new level.

 

At the end of the day, there's no need for it. There are more than enough shagged Mondeos and XJ40's etc to destroy.

[RedSparrow]

Didn't take long!

Well done for trying freebird.

 

I used to enjoy watching banger racing but what I don't like is meetings of one classic marque and prizes for the rarest thing raced. It's for these reasons that I stopped going entirely, from previously being a regular spectator at Arlington.

[Spiny Norman]

My only real issue is when people refer to demolition derbies as "RACING".

It's not a race, and it involves very little of what racing drivers would call skill.

[Tonka]

And I foolishly thought it would last to page 3............

 

OK so banger racers are selfish destroying perfectly usable classics, well what about the 1000's of cars sat rotting on driveways, in fields, barns etc that belong to selfish people who won't ever get around to putting them back on the road because they don't have the ability or funds or are too far gone yet won't let somebody else have the pleasure of either restoring them, stripping them to save others, or killing them off "in a blaze of glory" half these cars will end up over the bridge in year's to come either because the local authority or unsympathetic relatives get the job of clearing out.............at this point agreeing to disagree might be the best policy as there will always be two schools of thought on this matter and there are valid points on both sides of the arguement.

 

[Angrydicky]

This is what banger racing should be. Knackered 10 or so year old shit that is ready for the scrapyard and is cheap to buy/easy to find.

 

 

 

Destroying perfectly restorable 40+ year old motors is most definitely not on and paying £1000+ for cars to race surely defeats the whole point of 'banger' racing (i.e. motorpoint on a tiny budget). A lot of enthusiasts are being priced out of the market by racers paying silly money for stuff like Westminsters, P5's etc.

[Luxobarges_Are_Us]

I don't want Maxi prices to go through the roof as I want as many people as possible to enjoy them and likewise with other cars!

 

But ridiculously low prices actually deter people from enjoying them to the max! You have to be a hardcore shitist in order to respect a car that's worth a quarter of its annual insurance premium.

[dollywobbler]

And I foolishly thought it would last to page 3............

 

OK so banger racers are selfish destroying perfectly usable classics, well what about the 1000's of cars sat rotting on driveways, in fields, barns etc that belong to selfish people who won't ever get around to putting them back on the road because they don't have the ability or funds or are too far gone yet won't let somebody else have the pleasure of either restoring them, stripping them to save others, or killing them off "in a blaze of glory" half these cars will end up over the bridge in year's to come either because the local authority or unsympathetic relatives get the job of clearing out.............at this point agreeing to disagree might be the best policy as there will always be two schools of thought on this matter and there are valid points on both sides of the arguement.

 

 

I forgot that two wrongs make a right. Silly me.

 

And I bet for every banger racer that breaks a car for parts and sells them on, there's another two who think "selling parts is a load of hassle. I'll get better money for just weighing the stuff in."

[theorganist]

And I foolishly thought it would last to page 3............

 

I thought it had been quite a calm debate to be fair. It is not surprising that on an forum for old cars there will be those who do not like banger racing.

 

As for the parts situation, one of the most valuable parts needed for old cars from what I can see are body panels. They are obviously going to be useless after a few trips around the oval.

[Tonka]

I guess I'm sat on a pointed fence here, I've raced and sold parts to older cars owners, I've bought and saved cars that had been bought by mates to race or would have ended up there or over the bridge like the Acclaim but how ironic is this, I've just served a customer who asked if he can have the Escort when I've done with it "I'll give you £150 for it to race at Scunthorpe"......!

[dollywobbler]

I guess this is a bit like asking ramblers whether they like off-roading. As a 'good' off-roader, I still got treated with the same animosity when I tried to defend my hobby (not that I ever tried doing this on rambling forums I hasten to add!). I'm perfectly willing to accept that not everyone involved in banger racing is an idiot, or just out to piss people off. One reason I quit 4x4 ownership though is because I started feeling that the good guys were in the minority. You'd try your best to show yourself as responsible and that you care for the environment, but then you find greenlanes where lots of people have gone off-piste and you wonder why on earth you bother. I decided I couldn't be bothered anymore.

[trigger]

When i was younger I enjoyed going to the odd race but now I'm older and more into classic cars I've become wiser to the horrors that go on on the track, just ask Mr Bickle what he thinks of banger racers.

 

To be fair most of them hate the one who steal cars to race as much as we do as it gives their sport a bad name, I've seen threads over on Ovalchat where they have kicked off over a stolen car getting raced, The trouble is there's massive prizes now for the rarest and most interesting cars, especially at events like Firecracker so they are going out of their way to get the stuff.

 

I went to a classic car show last year at Foxhall Stadium where there was a classic Rover P4-5 banger meet and it was quite eye watering seeing what was raced, although 99% of it was shite.

 

Rover P5 3.5 Coupe Banger Car by Trigger's Retro Road Tests!, on Flickr

 

1961 ROVER 3LTR saloon. by rustdreamer, on Flickr

 

Rover P5 3.5 Coupe Banger Car by Trigger's Retro Road Tests!, on Flickr

 

Rover P4 Banger Car by Trigger's Retro Road Tests!, on Flickr

 

Rover P5 3.5 Coupe Banger Car by Trigger's Retro Road Tests!, on Flickr

 

1949 Rover P3 Banger Car by Trigger's Retro Road Tests!, on Flickr

[RedSparrow]

Looking at the roofline of that 1675 DD car, it looks to be a different car altogether...

[Vin]

Regardless of rights and wrongs of banger racing, on a personal basis, I've never really seen the attraction in destroying things for pleasure

[Spiny Norman]

what about the 1000's of cars sat rotting on driveways, in fields, barns etc that belong to selfish people who won't ever get around to putting them back on the road because they don't have the ability or funds or are too far gone ...

 

This is probably the most convincing defence of what is often seen as the indefensible that I've heard.

 

I used to frequent a couple of the more 'classic' oriented car forums and I always found it really funny how they'd tolerate, even celebrate the sighting of these rotted out hulks that were often photographed lurking in driveways or outbuildings, beyond any hope of recovery or even useful salvage, yet spout massive amounts of butthurt when it came to banger-ists (or God forbid Top Gear ) demolishing a 'classic.

 

Obviously I've got no time for the pilferage and wanton destruction of often savable and rare old motors that sometimes goes on. By all means use up some of the stocks of the freshly decommissioned Mondeos and Vectras etc that are littering the nation's scrapyards but in what way is it more fun to trash a 1960s Wolseley rather than a 2003 Laguna?

 

Not taking sides, just an opinion.

[face]

I went to a banger meeting once, about 20 years ago.

 

Some bloke I sort of knew was a keen banger racer. Every race he just hung back at the start, waiting for the guaranteed smash-ups. He then positioned himself to 'guard' a stricken car thus gaining qualification to the next round.

 

And repeat etc

 

Also a high count of fat, horrible, cheap airfield-market tracksuit wearing birds eating sweets and chain-smoking Lambert and Butler Golds pushing their kids around in buggies through the muddy fields.

 

Yuck.

[Spiny Norman]

Potentially stupid question time...

 

Is there much banger activity in Scotland?

 

I've never been aware of there being much truck with it up here. You don't seem to hear of old cars getting nicked off driveways by pikey types with hiabs (or even bought legitimately for banger-ing), it might just be my sheltered life but is there much activity away from the SE of England?