What's the cheapest car to run 12000 miles pa?

[overheadvalve]

I can't see anyone bothering to convert an AX to lpg, or anything as small really.

 

Earlier in the year I toyed with the idea of converting a Peugeot 205 1.1 to LPG for uber cheap motoring, and but for the fact that being folded into my diesel 205 resulted in a trip to the phisiotherapist and subsequent upgrade to 190D autoshite, might just have been daft enough to do it...

 

Could you do the conversion yourself? Great if you can but i was under the impression that the insurance companies wanted a certificate to prove that someone 'competent' had carried out the conversion, i could be rong, i usually are.

When i say competent i mean as in when you need to change an old gas cooker or a gas fire to a new one, i did my last one myself but apparently i am not qualified to do it anymore.

[tonedepear]

I can't see anyone bothering to convert an AX to lpg, or anything as small really.

 

I had a gas converted 1.2 clio!

 

You'd do well to find something like that for less than a bag, mind. Ebay economy fiends (like misself) will go bat shit for it. IIRC I paid £650 BIN in the first half hour of it going on sale. When I came to move it on I saw a whisker under a grand for it, and fuel prices have only gone up since.

[overheadvalve]

I can't see anyone bothering to convert an AX to lpg, or anything as small really.

 

I had a gas converted 1.2 clio!

 

You'd do well to find something like that for less than a bag, mind. Ebay economy fiends (like misself) will go bat shit for it. IIRC I paid £650 BIN in the first half hour of it going on sale. When I came to move it on I saw a whisker under a grand for it, and fuel prices have only gone up since.

Kin ell, do you realise that this means i'm not as tight as i thought i was, or to be precise as tight as my mates thought i was?

They will be very suprised to say the least when i tell them this.

[tonedepear]

I've seen a few* skoda fabias that were supposedly either factory/dealer fit options. Big money, them.

 

Trouble is, the premium they attract now makes them too much bloody money. Bah.

 

*2

 

FWIW my awesome frugal but bareable on long journeys shite shout would be a ZX Diesel.

[Luxobarges_Are_Us]

I can't see anyone bothering to convert an AX to lpg, or anything as small really.

 

When I was looking for a large LPG car earlier this year (see 4937-page thread), I kept stumbling across ads for bloody Fiestas and Polos, so yes there are quite a few about. But a car on LPG only needs to return 32mpg (which corresponds to petrol fuel consumption of about 36-37mpg) to stay below 10p per mile, therefore it should be possible with a medium-sized family car like a S40/A4/Octavia.

 

Even when having work done by a garage, you can keep costs low by shopping around and using mongbay and/or online shops for parts.

[Cavcraft]

My 318iS has been cheap to run over the last 3 years/40k. I've bought tyres, oil, pads, discs etc for it and it's always done 35 mpg. I bought a brand new LuK clutch off Ebay for £29 last month - the pedal is getting heavy now.

 

£500 buys a LOT of car these days. Up you budget to £700 and you're into cars barely 10 years old - Astras, Vectras, Passats and other perfectly sound but unfashionable chod capable of another 5 years work without going pop.

 

This.

Plus depreciation is virtually nil, parts/servicing/repairs are dirt cheap and you'll get a pretty well made, reliable, reasonably modern car for the money. Unless it's a Passat, in which case you'll get a swimming pool on wheels. The choice of chod for around £500 or a smidge more is huge and probably comes down to preference rather than availability.

[Justin Case]

Why not go up a little, over your £500 but the overall cost should be no more ; 50+mpg, low tax and insurance, nothing is likely to go wrong, and it hasn't got very far to depreciate either:

 

http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/3135079.htm

[cort16]

Vauxhall did a 1.6 LPG Astra out the factory. That'd probably be gr84mingebags if you could find one.

[Formula Autos]

Looking at this logically, there are a few main costs involved in running a car for this sort of mileage.

 

Firstly, fuel - to maximise economy you're realistically looking at diesel, particularly as LPG seems to add to the purchase price by some margin. Probably a diesel family sized car will be a handy thing to own, but some small petrol engined cars may give the same economy. However, if you're doing 12,000 miles per annum in a slow, noisy, tinny little city car, motorway journeys will be a PITA.

 

Secondly, purchase price/depreciation - buy new/newish and you're arguably throwing money away. But new/newish arguably buys reliability, to some extent. How about raising your price limit to maybe £1500? The depreciation won't be too bad over a couple of years, and it allows you a better selection of available cars.

 

Insurance - to keep this down you're realistically looking at something as small as you could get away with using/liking on a daily basis, and a non-sporty model at that.

 

Road Tax - something newish means you've chance of cheaper road tax, but you may have to spend a few grand to achieve this. Amazingly, people buy new cars on the basis of free/cheap road tax?!? On this point it's maybe better to get a £500 shitter and stump up £215 for 12 months of 'over 1500cc' road tax.

 

Repairs - There's a few variables here, not least how keen/adept you are with the spanners. If you're happy to tackle pretty much anything then french cars might be the way to go as they tend to be cheaper than their equivalents from other makes as reliability issues have come to light. They also tend (with some exceptions) to drive nicely and be good on fuel. However, if you'll be taking the car to a garage for repairs then, realistically, something Japanese is a safe bet. German cars are reportedly reliable too, but also reportedly expensive in terms of parts.

 

Using all the above logic, how about a Corolla or Yaris diesel? Probably not the most exciting, or even the most Autoshite option, but for 12,000 painless, frugal miles a year it's maybe not a bad call.

 

The Autoshite way might be to buy one of these fugly creations:

Not sure if they ever came with a diseasel mill in them though.

[Cavcraft]

Vauxhall did a 1.6 LPG Astra out the factory. That'd probably be gr84mingebags if you could find one.

 

There's a few about but they're fetching strong money and (usually) are quite a bit over Wazzer's budget. Would imagine any car with factory fitted LPG is going to be relatively expensive due to congestion and running charges.

[catsinthewelder]

I can't see anyone bothering to convert an AX to lpg, or anything as small really.

 

My work run a LPG'ed HiJet pickup, factory fitted conversion with a tiny tank that only takes 25 litres. GR8 for repeatedly having to drive 5 miles out of our way to fill it up.

 

On the plus side we offered to drop some stuff off in the village the garage is in, as the truck needed to go out there. Saw a metallic brown mid eighties Volvo 340 mothballed in a garden.

[andrew e]

LPG on a little engine is pointless, you'd despise it and be for ever spending money on new plugs. It blunts the shite out of the performance, regardless of what anyone says too. Real world (driving like Pete-M on fire) I got 27 mpg, 30 driving like I was on my test out of a straight 6 BMW. I have probally wasted weeks of my life waiting for that "one" bloody pump too. If you refuel 50 litres every two days at 15 minutes a pop from pull in to pull out you go mad

 

Paradoxially I had 2 AX diesels (Hear hear! the autoshite way) bought new with my own money (BURN HIM AT THE STAKE THE SCUMBAG FLASH BUGGER) which did 50 mpg.

 

If your doing 12,000 miles and being honest a diesel does not pay. Fuel is dearer, but engine failure bingo has far higher stakes with a derv compared to a petrol. A cheap derv is likely to have been skimmped on maintenance and hiding issues possibly too.

 

Well that barely helps does it If any shitters have the skill/talent (I'll help but your in charge!) I have a full sequential 6 cylinder stag LPG kit with a 60/50 litre fill capcity donut tank to be stripped out. £250 Warren, its done just under 90k of 2500rpm motorway work, [ebay]barely used NOT SVO BIODERV AE86[/ebay]

[dieselnutjob]

I would say 306 diesel.

[cort16]

My mate had a mk3 Astra diesel with the low pressure turbo and it was quite nice to drive and probably in budget. They do mega mpg too and are a gazillion times more livable with than the na version.

[jonathan_dyane]

Thoughts.

 

It is perfectly legal and relatively straightforward to do a DIY LPG conversion.

 

If you do it on something elderly (carb or fuel intection with no cat) and use a BLOS http://www.corrado.com.pl/warsztat/blos ... ion_ml.pdf rather than mixer you lose very little power and economy.

 

AX diesels are about the most economical thing you could get, my mother had two and got over 70mpg from the 1.4 and over 60mpg from the 1.5. The 1.4 engine is soft though.

 

My sister has a 1.0 petrol Yaris, and has never seen 50 mpg.

 

Modern diesels are FTL; the likely expenditure when it grenades more than offsets any economy advantage.

 

My 205D used to get 52 to 55mpg and I don't hang about. They're much nicer to drive and live with than an AX.

 

205's are a fair bit more economical than 306s.

[andrew e]

Try insuring an uncerted LPG... best to forget to mention it...

[Cavcraft]

Won't be in budget (unless you strike lucky) but if you can find a 206 1.4 HDi diesel I heartily recommend them. They're absolutely unbelievable on juice, never owned a car* as good.

Other recommendations: ZX, especially Volcane, BX, Astra (but make sure it's an Isuzu engined one) or for the ultimate laugh and economy try a Nova 1.5TD, assuming you can find one.

 

 

 

 

*It was a car derived van to be more precise.

[jonathan_dyane]

Try insuring an uncerted LPG... best to forget to mention it...

 

Not all insurers bother ask for it, and if they do it's just a case of paying to get the system checked and a certificate issued, which as long as you've done a tidy job is nothing to fear.

[Luxobarges_Are_Us]

Try insuring an uncerted LPG... best to forget to mention it...

 

Not all insurers bother ask for it, and if they do it's just a case of paying to get the system checked and a certificate issued, which as long as you've done a tidy job is nothing to fear.

 

I would never dream of installing an LPG conversion, but this is correct. Any LPGA-accredited installer would be happy to relieve you of fifty quid or so for having a look and certifying that you haven't made a complete mess of the installation.

[daverapid]

Paid virtually nothing for this 3 years or so ago, has cost me about £50 in repairs, does between 30 and 40mpg and my insurance for 4 cars including this one with Footman James with my Owners' Club discount is less than £130.

 

 

Not only that but I enjoy it too!

[andrew e]

As an LPG owner no LPGA installer will want to know! Or say £250 to do it... £50?

 

Your having a Tin bath luxo!

[Guest Len H]

A lot of Protons were fitted with LPG, the Mitsubishi derived models are bullet proof. Mega undesirable too.

 

Rover 25/45 TD is a good call, cheapish tax on post 2001 models, reliable old fashioned diesel and undesirable, especially the 45.

[Pete-M]

As another LPG owner I have never been asked for any certification regarding an LPG install on anything I've owned.

 

I've got one for the Heep but have never needed it, or had anyone ask for one when they've bought LPG cars from me.

[The Reverend Bluejeans]

Mark 111 Golf 1.9D (non turbulence). If you can find one that isn't turning to compost, these are not quite as slow as you think and can run 50/50 pump diesel/used veg.

[Luxobarges_Are_Us]

As an LPG owner no LPGA installer will want to know! Or say £250 to do it... £50?

 

Your having a Tin bath luxo!

 

I see where you're coming from, but you're still RONG. The thing with LPG installers/repairers is that there aren't many of them, so there isn't a proper 'market' around. Maybe the first one you ring will tell you £200, but you should be able to do MUCH better if you shop around. To give you an idea about the wild differences between them, I've had three quotes when I did an LPG service (which consists of a new filter, a fault-code reader routine and making sure there aren't any hoses about to cause an explosion), from installers in (three different towns of) Yorks/Lancs. One was £73, another £125 and the most expensive one came at £215. All three were Prins system specialists quoting for the exact same procedure. If the cheapest garage can inspect the installation as part of a £73 service, I can't imagine them charging more for doing the same minus the filter!

[andrew e]

Me RONG Maybe, but not round here in the Estuary, the LPGA are like the Mafia, its akin to turning up at a Merc dealers with a bag bits from partco and saying, "Service this and stamp the book!"

 

As you have probally found out there are a lot of LPG pro's who would have quickfit apprentices embarrass them, a snap on-chest does not an engineer make!

 

Saying that it may have changed, I had a Polish engineer fit my kit spot on, using a mix of the best stuff the Poles prefered (he would have gone for minge bag cheapness had wanted too, as did half his clients) but was £450 cheaper than the mafia, so I took a chance based purely on the clean swept workshop and the fact he wiped his tools when he put them back (something I allways did, much to the amusement of the other diesel fitters ) oh, and he was fine me watching him fit a customers kit all afternoon. But no A4 certificate.

[Guest Len H]

Mark 111 Golf 1.9D (non turbulence). If you can find one that isn't turning to compost, these are not quite as slow as you think and can run 50/50 pump diesel/used veg.

 

Surely they're not up to Mark One Hundred and Eleven yet.

 

They run well on 100% veg if you sack off the standard fuel filter and fit a gauze effort nicked from a tractor.

[Luxobarges_Are_Us]

As you have probally found out there are a lot of LPG pro's who would have quickfit apprentices embarrass them, a snap on-chest does not an engineer make!

 

Unfortunately, I found out the hard way- the bandits in Derbyshire who had converted my old Granada consigned a perfectly good car to the dustbin.

 

However, the LPGA certification is useful, not because it guarantees a decent standard of work (it doesn't!), but because it ties in nicely with the insurance cartel, since declaring the modification makes your car instantly 349% more difficult to write off (good luck finding the book value for an LPG-converted Citroen XM!) and means that they won't be able to try to avoid paying out in (the admittedly very unlikely) case an accident is made worse by a gas explosion.

[tonedepear]

Try insuring an uncerted LPG... best to forget to mention it...

 

Of seven LPG converted cars* I owned, only one had a certificate and I never got asked by insurers once. Not saying it doesn't happen, just never happened to me. (And the gowf was a right Heath Robinson affair)

 

*http://mingebagcitroens.blogspot.com/

[andrew e]

No I made the mistake of owning up once, I had a lapse of concentration the following years