Have Ford lost it with the Transit?

[warren t claim]

10-15 years ago if a company was going to buy a van they bought a Transit.

 

Transit sales used to be higher than its three nearest competitors put together.

 

Almost all non-nationalised companies were happy to buy them in quantity.

 

Other than the DMF issues, what has gone wrong for Ford? What's turned buyers away from the nations favourite panel van?

[The Reverend Bluejeans]

The fact that there are better vans, and thus stiff competition. The Trafic has issues as well but they drive so much better. The Vito has a Merc badge and the Sprinter has given the Transit a real kicking. Even in the good old days there were better vans - the Bedford CF could carry a lot more due to being usefully wider. A lot of the success was due to Ford marketing but folks have wised up.

The current one (Mark 4?) seems to last a lot better than the rust bucket Mark 3.

[Cavcraft]

Early Mk4s ar showing their age and signs of rust now too. Tbh the price gap between the 3 and 4 is still quite large. I reckon a top condition Mk3 for about a grand is going to be a lot better than some £1500 shit heap Mk4.

[Albert Ross]

Ford lost it when the enigne got installed the wrong way, and nobody spotted it until it was too late.

[Guest]

One company I worked for had branches all over the uk and all vehicles were Fords supplied by Dagenham Motors ltd. Cars and Commercials from the management to delivery vehicles untill a better lease deal came from a manchester Vauxhall dealer (Grimshaws?) and it was all Vectras and Movanos from then. Money matters to companys now so brand favorites are out of the window.

[dollywobbler]

Mk4s don't rust? Pull the other one! Have seen plenty of them needing sills. Not sure whether they get dipped in the sea or something as from what I've heard, they can rot like a Datsun on the coast in some areas, and not at all in others.

 

Mind you, there are other shit vans out there at the moment. The current Fiat Ducato/Pug/Cit is not one I'm a fan of. Electrical gremlins and shitty cheap plastics make them super fragile, even if they can be specced up with powerful engines. The bus one I drive has a really annoying shelf just above the driver's head. I'm really not sure how they got away with that one as it seems low enough to hit quite easily in a shunt. Also the opening section of the door glass is tiny, the A pillars are HUGE, the pedal layout is just peculiar and the heater controls are the biggest mess I've ever seen.

[warren t claim]

I drive a fair few vans ans the new Transit it better to drive than the Sprinter and more user friendly as well with its twin glove boxes.

[trigger]

He had a lot of 2003-04 Transits at work but they all rusted away and got scrapped (or crashed) now we have 2007 Transit's which seem much better made and drive very nice, when they aren't in limp model or have warning lights flashing on the dash at you.

[The Reverend Bluejeans]

Mk4s don't rust? Pull the other one! Have seen plenty of them needing sills. Not sure whether they get dipped in the sea or something as from what I've heard, they can rot like a Datsun on the coast in some areas, and not at all in others.

 

 

Oh yes, they can rust. But compared to the Mark 3, they're as durable as the Pyramids. My Dad's 1986 D 120L needed a bonnet, tailagate and front wings when it was 5 years old. That one was repaired, and I bought him another one in 1992 from Blackbushe Auctions. That was a G reg 1600 80 SWB and I waxoyled it to buggery. That lasted well but the gearbox shat it's second gear syncro out after 30'000 and the diff whined like a bastard. They were just shit when you look back, cheap rubbish.

[dollywobbler]

I drive a fair few vans ans the new Transit it better to drive than the Sprinter and more user friendly as well with its twin glove boxes.

 

That's interesting. While I quite like the Transit from the wheel, I really like the VW Crafters (nee Sprinter) that we've got on the bus fleet. Mind you, bus driving is very different to van driving - as I have to keep reminding myself! The VW is great for driving smoothly and gently - must be that Mercedes-Benz heritage shining through.

[overheadvalve]

We use Transit busses at work, loser cruisers to get people to and from work we have 5. Merc's were more money and there is no reason if we lease for 3 years, the badge means nothing at all!. The mileage is quite something, 280,000 miles is probably about a mean average. On the last lease period we used VW Crafters for 3 years they were awful, plenty of problems but i could not be specific because i didn't ask. I do remember one which was *really*noisey from the top end, really tappy, bloody awful. I also remember the drivers complaining about them being worse to drive than a Tranny. We did have an LDV bus for a short while, that was a good Bus, i thought it was a shame we couldn't get them on lease.

I think that the VW is probably cheaper, the engines are probably made in Hungary or Bulgaria, don't they make the Audi TT in one of those countries.

So in summary i think that Ford have been undercut on price that's all, the Ford is still the best van imho.

[George-Roper]

We did have an LDV bus for a short while, that was a good Bus

[dollywobbler]

I will admit that the VWs may lose their gloss. We've got an LT on the fleet with about 128k miles on it. It feels knackered! If you owned a seven year old car with that mileage, you'd be well pissed off it if felt that crap. It's going rusty as well. That said, I drove an LT with delivery mileage on it once, and that felt pretty crap too...

[cobblers]

From my experience, the mk4 transits are still a fairly honest work van, my dad runs a transit, and he's happy with it (it's on its 3rd starter due to DMF IRON FILINGZ) but he's clueless about impending doom. It is what it is. They do the job but don't even slightly pretend they are anything other than a work van

 

Mates run vivaros/renault whatevers and having driven them, they are not bad at all. They all drive a lot better than any car I've ever owned. I wouldn't want to own one because of lego gearbox syndrome, as well as modern Vauxhall/Renault syndrome, but they do drive nice.

Despite poor rep, 3 of them are on 250-350k with nothing more than comsumables and a clutch or three. I'd be happy to do 1% of that in one of my own vehicles without having to spend £100 on something.

 

VWs are genuinely good vans (T4 and T5), but as a work van aren't worth anything near what they fetch 2nd hand. Unless you are buying new, in which case GO FOR IT, cos there is a que of people to buy a stinky bashed up 9 year old van with 180k for about 5 grand, then throw some paint, a few sheets of caravan board and some ill fitting range rover alloys at it and sell it as a REAL CLEAN DAYVAN SURFBUS and ask about £15k, claiming it was a florists van from new or something like that.

[TimothyClaypole]

A random T4 advert:

 

http://www.volkszone.com/VZi/showthread.php?t=736427

 

Needs a £20.00 part but I'll splash the cash on TWO sets of stupid wheels etc.

 

[overheadvalve]

We did have an LDV bus for a short while, that was a good Bus

No but what have you got, Freddie? No E's as i'm loved up enuf!....

Why? It was like the one in the pic.

 

It didn't go wrong, unlike the Vee dubbleyah's and it was ok to drive. It wasn't as good as a Transit but it was about £40 less a month!

scene

A random T4 advert:

http://www.volkszone.com/VZi/showthread.php?t=736427

Needs a £20.00 part but I'll splash the cash on TWO sets of stupid wheels etc.

That's Vee dubbin innit!

[Luxobarges_Are_Us]

I find it really baffling that Toyota don't seem to sell any vans in this country. I mean, if you want a reliable work vehicle, are you going to buy something from a PSA/FIAT consortium or, shock horror, RENAULT (that's what the Vauxhalls are, too) for eff's sake? Same with Hyundai- they're cheap, everyone knows that they're reliable, yet you'd struggle to spot one.

 

For some reason, Mitsubishi, a purveyor of vans with a long history in Europe, have withdrawn from the market (perhaps as part of their cooperation with PSA on SUVs?). The only Asian-branded van with semi-significant sales is the Nissan-badged Renault.

 

I really don't get it.

[gricer]

Toyota HiAce is too narrow compared with Eurovans. The old forward control Japanese vans used to sell well because they had very long load floors, but the current HiAce now has the engine ahead of the driver. HiAce is actually a nice old thing, but it's showing its age now.

 

Current Transit is officially "Mk 5" BTW. And it's still the UK's top seller.

 

/shameless plug mode

 

http://www.businessvans.co.uk for everything van-related.

 

Includes Transit shite here

 

http://www.businessvans.co.uk/advicefull.asp?id=105

 

and here

 

http://www.businessvans.co.uk/reportsfull.asp?id=117

[maxpower]

my 07 plate transit before the repo man came and took it back was the best van i have driven for yonks.... we have merc sprinters at work and they all run like a bag of nails... though that is probably down to the way people treat them

[andrew e]

I think its just choice, Transits sold 15 years ago because the fleet option was that or LDV. Easy choice. VW's were too much for mean fleet managers, and Merc's truck image/quality/running costs were shite, so it was unlikely an old school fleet manager would shout for 308's. GM had nothing to offer back then. I have no idea why the Sevel van's never took off here really, especially as the last Talbots were Sevel upto '94 and the replacement was huge and low. Renault have had a loyal following all long, especially with glaziers.

 

Today we tend to forget that Vito's come with free double sliders and tailgates, the GM/Renault/Nissan and Sevel's are really keenly priced, VW/mercs have huge resale value.

 

The Transit has the odd roof heights where you get just not enough head room to stand up in semi-high top, yet as a service engineer you don't want a MPG sapping full high top. The metalic paint "gypo" image is not great for company PR either. And they still rust to buggery (but not to Vito standards!), even if you can have a quickclear screen!

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sevel

[The Reverend Bluejeans]

I find it really baffling that Toyota don't seem to sell any vans in this country. I mean, if you want a reliable work vehicle, are you going to buy something from a PSA/FIAT consortium or, shock horror, RENAULT (that's what the Vauxhalls are, too) for eff's sake? Same with Hyundai- they're cheap, everyone knows that they're reliable, yet you'd struggle to spot one.

 

For some reason, Mitsubishi, a purveyor of vans with a long history in Europe, have withdrawn from the market (perhaps as part of their cooperation with PSA on SUVs?). The only Asian-branded van with semi-significant sales is the Nissan-badged Renault.

 

I really don't get it.

 

Jap vans sell massively everywhere else in the world though - the US, Asia etc.You don't see many Transits out there because they'd be no good. At a guess I would say that Toyota etc have enough profitable sales and can't be arsed with the UK where the only consideration is how much it costs a month.....?

Toyota don't make vans that rust and fall to bits in 5 years (and they have an image to protect), so I guess their Vans are too expensive to make properly and sell here at a competitive price.

[freebird]

If i can throw my tuppence worth in, ive been driving Transits daily for 20 odd years now and, in all honesty, they are nowhere near as good as they used to be.

All vans rust and all working commercial vehicles will, generally, lead a hard life but, i think, the proof of their durability lays in how many old uns you still see about.

The transits of the late 80s early 90s ( which i first started driving) always felt like they were hewn from granite, indestructible, could pull up tree stumps ( which i did with mine once without totally burning the clutch out) and rarely gave any problems. i can honestly say, apart from two altenators, replaced at 10,000 miles on two vans i had, there were never any issues. You got in and drove them, the end. Believe me, up here, the vans are taken places they really shouldnt be taken, places more suited to 4x4s and the like but, time and time again, they did it without fuss.

The "Modern" transit? Drives lovely, got a car interior, Mondeo dashboard and a comfortable ergonomic steering wheel BUT its a pussy!!

The BT fleet ( I work for Openreach ) did switch to Vivaros and, they arent bad. The reason they switched was, as i heard, Fords couldnt fulfill the orders, however, I think another issue was that the internal bulkhead was a problem as it fouled the drivers seat if the internal racking we have was to be fitted. This was something that was, eventually resolved, i drive one of the early new type Transits with a redesigned bulkhead that was put on trial with us...if that makes any sense at all!

Our fleet has now gone back to Transits, there were "issues" with the Vivaro anyway, such as front doors that were too heavy and people injuring themselves getting in and out.....bizzare...

New Transits? Too many gremlins, electrical and mechanical, too soft for hard graft and, in fairness, the rest of the world has caught up in terms of value for money and what it can do.

Yes the transit was, indeed, the "backbone" of Britain but now, it seems, its suffering from a crumbling of the spine.

When you are out and about, see just how many Ex BT trannys are still out there earning a living. They may be grey or resprayed but most you will recognise by the step at the back and the reg nos that show them as registered in Birmingham, normally a reg no ending in OH, OG etc.

Still loads and loads out there because they were well 'ard.

How times change, eh?

EDIT: I did get given a brand new Vivaro, the bloody thing absolutely flew when wound up, however, inside, at the back where it mattered, it was physically smaller. As soon as the opportunity arose, I changed it to the transit ive got now. Vivaros drive nicer but the Transit is more, ummmmm "sporty"

[jonny69]

I've driven two Transits in the last 5 years and I didn't like them. I guess ultimately it's down to what you use them for but I always find the LWB Sprinter to be the van I need. I can't stand the way the Transit feels like you're driving a truck; you're miles up in the air and it feels huge for what it is. In the back it's a bit too short and not high enough.

 

Vito's get a lot of stick, but I used to quite like them. Nice little van that used to go well and was quite comfortable. I gather they don't like getting old though.

 

I had the misfortune of driving a bottom-end Renault Trafic a couple of times as well. Now that was a bag of shit and I hated driving it. Struggled over 60mph and it was impossible to judge the outside proportions so I nearly trashed it a few times.

[stuboy]

the mk5 was the best at the time, the the mk6 came but sadly they were rubbish, rotted away, engines died...then the mk7 picks up the pace better now

[The Reverend Bluejeans]

I liked the original Vito better than the current one, but the build quality is so poor. The Trafic is the van I like best - the car like driving position, handling and decent 'go' in the more powerful versions.

[trigger]

My old man's had a lot more problems with his "new" shape 56 plate Transit 330 then he ever had with his 1996 2.5Di Transit before or even his B reg Transit 2.0 petrol before that.

 

Most of the faults though have been electrical related or split boost pipes, or DMF failure after 70000 miles or seized water pumps...

[Cavcraft]

Mk4s don't rust? Pull the other one! Have seen plenty of them needing sills. Not sure whether they get dipped in the sea or something as from what I've heard, they can rot like a Datsun on the coast in some areas, and not at all in others.

 

 

Oh yes, they can rust. But compared to the Mark 3, they're as durable as the Pyramids. My Dad's 1986 D 120L needed a bonnet, tailagate and front wings when it was 5 years old. That one was repaired, and I bought him another one in 1992 from Blackbushe Auctions. That was a G reg 1600 80 SWB and I waxoyled it to buggery. That lasted well but the gearbox shat it's second gear syncro out after 30'000 and the diff whined like a bastard. They were just shit when you look back, cheap rubbish.

 

I don't know, to be honest.

The competition for the Mk3 Transit was crap(per) at the time: Fiat/Peugeot vans seemed quite frankly awful, LDVs were crap, the less said about Ivecos the better and Mercs were bloody horrible to drive, especially with the 'hit and hope' magic wand gearbox that was like stirring porridge.

 

Don't get me wrong I've driven some absolutely bloody horrendous Transits that made me want to cry, kill someone or drive off a cliff but the 2.5DI engine is generally brilliant and pretty much bullet proof. Older 'pre-new gen' ones could rot like merry hell and all Mk3s suffer from comically bad wheel arch and wing rot but they're actually mostly pretty good to drive.

The incredible array of diffs set them apart: some would struggle to hit 60mph flat out but accelerate like a scalded cat, others didn't accelerate especially well but would go on to some damned good top speeds and others were anything in between.

The lwb single rear wheel 6 studders for example would sit at 80mph all day long but always seemed to be looking for another gear, where as from experience the SWB single wheelers were just about perfect with decent acceleration and good top speed plus seemed easier and nicer to drive.

They have a few faults (bodywork, diffs etc) but they really were best in class in their day and even now are actually a better bet than newer vans it would appear.

[danthecapriman]

Ill add my views since I have a fair bit of big van experience, both driving, maintaining and owning them.

 

The current Transit is still the best in my opinion and it is still the best selling van over here. I drive big vans for my job as a power distribution engineer, so they get loaded up to the limit and driven hard across all sorts of terrain in all weather, day or night. The company I work for used to have Sherpa/Freight rovers, these were ok but not good to drive and not that reliable either, they also at the same time used the Dodge 50 and the later Dodge/Renault version, these were strong vans but very slow, noisy and rusty. They then started to use Transits the mk3 and 'smiley' type with the DI engine which were excellent, strong, reliable, almost car like to drive compared to the older vans and they stuck with Transits ever since. Until recently anyway.

I had a 52 plate LWB high top, rear wheel drive type with this company and it took some serious abuse over the years but it was fine with the exception of the diesel pump leaking (but it still worked) at about 130K and occasional DMF and associated starter problems every now and then. It was just starting to rust in a few places when it went back to the lease company a year ago, but it was still a good van, in fact so good I almost bought it myself for my own use! When that went back The company got a batch of Sprinters and Fiat Ducatos to trial insted of Transits and I was lucky and got a Sprinter. The reason was apparantly Ford wouldnt do a 'deal' on the new vans or something similar!

The Fiats are utterly shit, poor drive, crap cabs, not that well made or reliable and are front wheel drive! needless to say they didnt get many and stopped getting any more of them pretty sharpish!

The Sprinter is a world away from the Transit, Its faster, smoother, way more comfortable to drive and looks nice -but thats just my opinion! However, they arent that well put together, have a few reliability/quality issues like sudden loss of coolant causing the engine to overheat and dodgy battery leads that chaif on the seat base and then spark away (one was totally burnt out because of it!) they dont tow very well, we tow 2 ton oil bowsers and the transit does it effortlessly but the sprinters struggle at times. The suspension is too soft so when you go across curbs and rough ground (all part of the jobs needs) they bounce and rock violantly! and they are not very strong, the nature of my job means the vans can be knocked about a bit and the transits can take it but the sprinters just fold up!

The company have now had to go back to Transits, as nothing else can do the job as well. They dont get such good deals with Ford either so its not a decision they have taken lightly. (We have thousands of big vans up and down the country!)

 

As far as my experiance working on them and owning them goes, I have worked on loads in my previous job and Transits were always the best. I ave owned a few 'smileys' and currently have a mk2 petrol and cant fault them! They rust but so do all vans!

Interestingly the old 2.5DI transits are still pretty desirable used vans, I sold my last one, a V reg 190 LWB, it had rust but was still very good and was low mileage (80K) and had people queing up for it, most of them wanted the old DI in preferance to the newer ones, even when the price was similar. Because they are so reliable and cheap to run compared to other vans.

If I wanted a big van of my own for work it would be a 2.5DI 'smiley' anyday, even over much newer vans.

[MK5 Escort]

In my opinion, the last ‘decent’ Transits were the last of the MK3’s ‘smiley face’ jobbies which went onto W and X plates. I’d have one of them any day, despite the rust issues and I wouldn’t personally touch the Transits that followed.

 

Where I worked up until just over a year ago, we had 52 plate and 05 plate Transits which replaced a whole bunch of late nineties jobbies which had served the firm very well with minimal fuss. Both sets of the then latest model were simply atrocious. If I were to list all the faults that I could remember, I would be typing them out all night. I don’t recall a month going by when there wasn’t at least one in dock or en-route into a dealers on the back of a low loader. We were on first name terms with two of the dealers.

 

I personally drove two of the 05 plate ones and thought they were very ‘baggy’ things to drive. Unresponsive throughout the rev range, unbelievably noisy at 60-65mph and a very high driving position which was enough to give me backache after barely more than an hour. One of the regular drivers was forever moaning about it and I could only sympathise with him. Strangely enough, the one and only 52 plate that I drove was notably quieter, even though it was supposed to have the same unit under the bonnet . All were Manchester registered and in Dark True Blue (some badly resprayed this colour from standard white because Ford couldn't source the amount we needed).

 

My experience of the latest revised model in my current job isn't that much better either. We have a selection of 10 and 60 plate examples. Both are heavily used on a daily basis (I know two of the 60 plates have done in the region of 70k) and one is already on it’s second engine - thankfully replaced under warranty with about 200 miles to spare...

 

I like the last generation Vauxhall Movano / Renault Master / Nissan whatever-it-is. Crap dashboard for sure and an even worse radio, but generally reliable from my own experiences. Deceptively spacious on the inside too. The company my father worked for until recently has a 53 plate Movano 2.2DTi which had done in the region of 208k when he left a few months back. Barring the odd electrical glitch and general wear and tear items, they’ve never had an issue with it. A solid old workhorse which had not only served the firm well (and continues to do so) but also helped with various personal house moves, building works, tip runs e.t.c...

[CIH]

Since moving down to Hemel I see quite a lot of those slightly odd looking Nissan/Mitsi/Isuzu forward control mini-trucks;

 

 

We look after a few '05-ish LWB Transit minibushes for a transprt firm. They're ok, but seem tired and are visibily starting to rust.