Omegas etc- a miserable story that ends miserably

[The Reverend Bluejeans]

 

Whereas I totally disagree. I drive a 40 year old Land Rover every day, and use it for everything. Yeah, it has it's occasional faults, but £23 for a full set of brake shoes, front and rear? Gearbox gasket set £2.20. Full engine gasket set £12. Wiper blades £2 each. Complete set of front and rear lamps (headlamp sealed beams, 4 indicators, 2 sidelamps, and a pair of the interim stop/tail lamps with built in reflectors and numberplate lamp aperture, all with wiring and bulb holders) for £40-45. Tyres can be pricey, but no more than a similar tyre would cost for an Omega. Wheel bearings about a tenner, prop UJ's about £4 each. That kind of thing.

 

Why buy an under maintained, poor quality car, with poor residual values, when you can find something a little better for less money. I have a 21 year old Sierra Sapphire that I would use, if I could be arsed to get it roadworthy. It needs a little welding, 4 undented/unrotten doors

 

A Land Rover doesn't cruise quietly at 80 mph, return 30 mpg at the same time or have any of the nice to have things that even £500 bangers have - central locking, power steering. In fact, they're fucking horrible to drive. A very useful vehicle, but as a daily to do serious miles it, you can keep it thanks.

 

Why buy an under maintained, poor quality car, with poor residual values, when you can find a dented and rotten 21 year old Sierra?

 

And residual values? On a £1000 Omega?

[Albert Ross]

 

Whereas I totally disagree. I drive a 40 year old Land Rover every day, and use it for everything. Yeah, it has it's occasional faults, but £23 for a full set of brake shoes, front and rear? Gearbox gasket set £2.20. Full engine gasket set £12. Wiper blades £2 each. Complete set of front and rear lamps (headlamp sealed beams, 4 indicators, 2 sidelamps, and a pair of the interim stop/tail lamps with built in reflectors and numberplate lamp aperture, all with wiring and bulb holders) for £40-45. Tyres can be pricey, but no more than a similar tyre would cost for an Omega. Wheel bearings about a tenner, prop UJ's about £4 each. That kind of thing.

 

Why buy an under maintained, poor quality car, with poor residual values, when you can find something a little better for less money. I have a 21 year old Sierra Sapphire that I would use, if I could be arsed to get it roadworthy. It needs a little welding, 4 undented/unrotten doors

 

A Land Rover doesn't cruise quietly at 80 mph, return 30 mpg at the same time or have any of the nice to have things that even £500 bangers have - central locking, power steering. In fact, they're fucking horrible to drive. A very useful vehicle, but as a daily to do serious miles it, you can keep it thanks.

 

Why buy an under maintained, poor quality car, with poor residual values, when you can find a dented and rotten 21 year old Sierra?

 

And residual values? On a £1000 Omega?

 

The Sierra was £70, taxed, tested, and I used it for 7 months before laying it up. I have recently refused an offer of £500 for it. 3 years later. The doors have been bent back by attempted theft and vandalism prior to me buying it, and the welding required would take about 2 hours. As for 80mph, the Land Rover won't go over 65, but 50/60 is the limit for a dual purpose van anyway, but that way I don't get 3 points for speeding. 30mpg? OK, 25 is the best I return, but that's half loaded, so I challenge you to put half a ton in an Omega Estate safely. Central locking? Sierra has it, the Land Rover doesn't, but I can reach over to the only other door. Power steering? It doesn't need it. Horrible to drive? When was the last time you drove a correctly maintained (steering and suspension wise) Series Land Rover? I'd wager it was a poorly maintained vehicle, on tyres better suited to a tractor. Mine has radials, correctly inflated for the loads carried, and it has possibly the lightest driving action of any Series I've driven. And I've owned nearly 70 of them. As for residual values.... It cost me £390, has cost me £1788 to get on the road (just to get it roadworthy, including a replacement galvanised chassis, something you can't do with a modern vehicle) and it's agreed insurance value is £3750. Seems to me that I'm in profit here. I see your point, but disagree with it, there's no need to be downright rude about it. I speak of experience, not hearsay. I would readily load up my equipment, and drive 200 miles to go repair a vehicle. A year or so ago, I delivered a snowplough to Lincoln, then drove to somewhere near Leicester to collect 4 Sierra doors (they were free, and the correct colour) and drove back again, and I didn't have to lift the bonnet, and my ears weren't ringing afterwards.

I did buy a 1995 Astra Estate for £50, got it somewhat better looking than it was. upgraded brakes, wheels/tyres and suspension, fitted newer bumpers and colour coded it, replaced the interior. That had CL and PAS, every panel told a story, it was that horrible red/off pink Vauxhall colour, and I sold it 2 years later for £200. That lasted the next owner 18 months also, and was offered back to me for £50. None of the electronic stuff gave up on it.

There are better cheaper cars out there that this omega, ones with exhausts that might see the week out. The Land Rover exhaust, from (and including) manifold to tailpipe, with all fasteners and hangers/gaskets is about £65. Sierra from manifold back? About the same. Omega? Best of luck trying to match that price lads.

[AnthonyG]

A Series Land Rover is not really comparable to a Mondeo, Omega or anything else bar maybe a tractor.

 

I have driven one - a petrol swb series 3 - and I found it awful in every way. Fine for seriously off road stuff, bloody terrible otherwise. After British Leyland got their hands on them in the 1970s they were also poorly built and unreliable, which is why Aussies and Africans now buy Toyotas, cos you don't want a breakdown in the outback.

 

A friend has several Series 2's and 3's, he wouldn't have anything else but he is constantly replacing bits of them. The reason why parts are so cheap is every LR enthusiast is changing something every weekend.

[Tayne]

.

[AnthonyG]

Good points there Mr Tayne!

[Luxobarges_Are_Us]

I agree with Tayne's post- though I have to say that a "tiny budget" per se isn't the most important requirement for me. I don't mind spending a bit of money on something that's worth it, but obviously wouldn't like to have something that needs fettling with every week. And I certanly require something substantially more comfortable than a Landy.

 

How much is an Omega exhaust anyway? National Tyres quote £117.00 fitted for both the middle and tail sections.

 

This is not a post in defence of the Omega- I haven't got any experience with them, that's why I posted this thread to begin with.

[r.welfare]

I think you should maybe do a weekend of 'mystery buying' using Autotrader and try out a shortlist of big barges to see which one fits you best on the comfort front - I suspect the French may fit your requirement best in this regard. Then flex your budget a little bit looking for something that's had a low number of owners (ideally one, if possible!) and plenty spent on it keeping it in top fettle. I suspect that may be more difficult with your LPG requirement, but I have no scientific basis for this assertion.

 

It's only my experience but I'd say the Japanese are pretty good if you want something that doesn't need a lot of fettling to stay fit in wind and limb, particularly if you're not handy with the spanners. That said you seem to have had no joy with this Accord of yours, but I suspect that had an awful lot to do with the previous owner who, you have cheerfully admitted, spent f-all on it in six years. Such an admission would have had me running a mile, but there you go!

 

What you ideally want to find - and it's irrespective of the car to be honest, as all manufacturers can turn out a good 'un or a dud, albeit the ratios do vary - is something that's had a lot of love from it's previous owner, so you can in effect be like the previous owner of your Accord if you see what I mean.

[The Reverend Bluejeans]

When was the last time you drove a correctly maintained (steering and suspension wise) Series Land Rover? I'd wager it was a poorly maintained vehicle, on tyres better suited to a tractor.

 

1990.

 

I took a lovely low mileage short wheelbase petrol Land Rover for an MOT. It was a 1979 example that the old dear had bought new and it was an exceptional example - it was so mint she got me to rub down and repaint the wheels. By the standards of 1990, it was utterly appalling to drive - ~I'll never forget how dreadful it was. I've nothing against Landies at all and still think they're amongst the best 4x4 mud pluggers, but if anyone wants to drive one 200 miles down the motorway and 200 miles back 4 hours later. Hmmm. No thanks.

 

Not when I can be cruising in a quiet and comfy 10-15 year old barge doing vastly better economy, listening to Radio 4, and all in something which cost a fraction of what a Land Rover is anything near proper condition - i.e not pissing oil out and threatening to break down every 5 mins. In that respect, they are no different to old Minis. Easy to fix, but that's just as well.

 

Secondhand cars are so cheap now that it makes driving battered /rusty 90's stuff a little bit pointless. A mate of mine recently bought a T reg S Type 4.0 for a grand. It's done a lot of miles, but what a chariot!

 

 

P.S you should have taken the £500.

[Albert Ross]

Now see here!

I will not sell the Sapphire, because I reckon it's special and rare. Never barried, steel wheels, no screw holes in the dash or big speakers in the shelf....

 

A case in point. I have had a niggling issue with the service brakes on the Land Rover. After reversing and applying the brakes, and then driving forwards, the first brake application leads to a clunk from the rear axle, and a pedal drop. Not a serious drop, but noticeable. It's come on in the last month. This afternoon, I pulled the rear drums. Offside, no issues, but replaced the shoes anyway. Nearside, hub seal failure, leading to EP90 contamination of shoes and drum. I replaced the hub seal, (Bearing land/seal face of the hub was in good order) rear shoes, and drive flange gasket. Total cost? About £12 all in. I carry such spares because they're cheap. It took me about an hour. All fixed, no issues. If one were to investigate such a fault on a large semi-modern RWD car, one would end up with it on stands, as nobody would have all the bits in a box to fix it. Rear handbrake shoes (considering the linings separating like usual) ... disc/drum would not be contaminated, but would be internally scored by the knackered shoes.. all the little springs... the rear pads... the pad clips... the through pins... then there's the wind back tool that some manufacturers insist on if there's no inner drum for the parking brake... Just too complicated to keep on the road on a shoestring. I'll keep saying it.. modernish cars just can't be kept on the road as easily as a 30-40 year old car.

What tyres were on the 1979 Land Rover? 6.00x16 Crossplies? Was there an overdrive? Don't forget, it may well have never had the steering relay lubricated, nor the track rod ends greased, even though it was "well maintained".. some garages think low mileage means skip a few bits on service... standing does more damage then driving ever did.

As for "pissing oil out" , that's a bit silly. Mine has the original engine, and there's a weep from the crank front seal. That's a timing cover removal jobbie, so I will build a replacement engine as this one is cracked!! No other oil leaks. The gearbox drips, but it's a hastily fitted second hand unknown unit... gifted by a friend. The rear axle leaked into the drum, so didn't "piss oil out", it pissed it in!! The steering box has developed a weep, but gaskets are about 35p, so I will buy one in the week and cure it. I see a lot of leaking Vauxhalls under three years old. Crank front and rear seals, cam seals, cam cover gaskets etc.

Still, we have differing opinions, don't we!

[Guest Leonard Hatred]

I think something in between the simple mechanics of a Land Rover and a civilised car would be good for me, it's why I find Volvo 940 turbo diesels very appealing with their fully mechanical engines and proven underpinnings.

[warren t claim]

I think something in between the simple mechanics of a Land Rover and a civilised car would be good for me, it's why I find Volvo 940 turbo diesels very appealing with their fully mechanical engines and proven underpinnings.

Aren't they VW engines? Are they 4 or 5 cylinder?

[Guest Leonard Hatred]

It's a 6 cylinder version of the engines used in early diesel Golfs, they were fitted to VW LTs as well as 7/940s.

[Albert Ross]

Beautiful smooth engine, two timing belts, one each end, and don't use a windy gun to tighten the front crank nut after replacing the belt! It requires an expensive special tool to torque it up.

[Guest Leonard Hatred]

Smooth*

[dollywobbler]

Must admit, my Saab makes a fine ol' barge. It does exactly what my 2CV (and a Series Landy for that matter) can't do. Swift, quiet, completely boring to drive. Which is sometimes exactly what is wanted.

[Justin Case]

Remember that these large barges, especially German and Swedish, generally start off their lives as middle management fodder, then when they come to the end of their leases get into the hands of people like me, who buy them for about 40% of the original cost. They then get looked after for another four or five years until just before the big bills start to come through. Then they get into the hands of someone like my mate who doesn't realise the cost of parts relates to the original cost of £30k rather than the £2k he paid. From then on they move rapidly down the food chain until they end up on Ebay with rather vague descriptions (Autoshite Hell?)

 

My advice is get something with zero appeal in the company car park and long-term ownership; so, Japanese or South East Asian, and as large as you can afford is the way to go, with the added bonus of the rank of 'Hero of Autoshite'

[Albert Ross]

LS400 on gas anyone?

[The Reverend Bluejeans]

Now see here!

I will not sell the Sapphire, because I reckon it's special and rare. Never barried, steel wheels, no screw holes in the dash or big speakers in the shelf....

 

A case in point. I have had a niggling issue with the service brakes on the Land Rover. After reversing and applying the brakes, and then driving forwards, the first brake application leads to a clunk from the rear axle, and a pedal drop. Not a serious drop, but noticeable. It's come on in the last month. This afternoon, I pulled the rear drums. Offside, no issues, but replaced the shoes anyway. Nearside, hub seal failure, leading to EP90 contamination of shoes and drum. I replaced the hub seal, (Bearing land/seal face of the hub was in good order) rear shoes, and drive flange gasket. Total cost? About £12 all in. I carry such spares because they're cheap. It took me about an hour. All fixed, no issues. If one were to investigate such a fault on a large semi-modern RWD car, one would end up with it on stands, as nobody would have all the bits in a box to fix it. Rear handbrake shoes (considering the linings separating like usual) ... disc/drum would not be contaminated, but would be internally scored by the knackered shoes.. all the little springs... the rear pads... the pad clips... the through pins... then there's the wind back tool that some manufacturers insist on if there's no inner drum for the parking brake... Just too complicated to keep on the road on a shoestring. I'll keep saying it.. modernish cars just can't be kept on the road as easily as a 30-40 year old car.

What tyres were on the 1979 Land Rover? 6.00x16 Crossplies? Was there an overdrive? Don't forget, it may well have never had the steering relay lubricated, nor the track rod ends greased, even though it was "well maintained".. some garages think low mileage means skip a few bits on service... standing does more damage then driving ever did.

As for "pissing oil out" , that's a bit silly. Mine has the original engine, and there's a weep from the crank front seal. That's a timing cover removal jobbie, so I will build a replacement engine as this one is cracked!! No other oil leaks. The gearbox drips, but it's a hastily fitted second hand unknown unit... gifted by a friend. The rear axle leaked into the drum, so didn't "piss oil out", it pissed it in!! The steering box has developed a weep, but gaskets are about 35p, so I will buy one in the week and cure it. I see a lot of leaking Vauxhalls under three years old. Crank front and rear seals, cam seals, cam cover gaskets etc.

Still, we have differing opinions, don't we!

 

 

It doesn't matter. It was slow, noisy and uncomfortable. I have no desire to drive one ever again. I don't care how easy they are to work on, or how cheap parts are. They are an utterly hateful mode of transport - IMO of course.

 

I forgot - I drove another in 1995, a V8 Safari thing. The heater was quite good.

 

 

Sorry, but a cheap, clean and tidy modern ish saloon wins every time. Want to move half a ton? Rent a Van.

[Cavcraft]

I'd have thought stuff like the LS400, 'big' Jags etc are probably more likely to cause agro than an Omega/Granada etc as following the likely list of previous owners you can (mostly) bet the last couple haven't had the money to service and maintain them properly. Seen quite a few cheap LS400s over the last few years and am willing to bet they're cheap because they have problems no-one wants or can afford to sort out.

 

The only reason that Omega is £995 is because of the LPG. Without that it's a £350 (at best) car unless a low mileage, fully serviced and historied minter, but as discussed earlier for that sort of money and because of the LPG it should be a reasonable car. The exhaust issues and lack of tax would worry me though: if the front pipe and cat have gone it could be silly money and no tax will probably mean he won't let you give it the full on road test drive it (and you) need.

[Pete-M]

I'd have thought stuff like the LS400, 'big' Jags etc are probably more likely to cause agro than an Omega/Granada etc as following the likely list of previous owners you can (mostly) bet the last couple haven't had the money to service and maintain them properly. Seen quite a few cheap LS400s over the last few years and am willing to bet they're cheap because they have problems no-one wants or can afford to sort out.

 

The only reason that Omega is £995 is because of the LPG. Without that it's a £350 (at best) car unless a low mileage, fully serviced and historied minter, but as discussed earlier for that sort of money and because of the LPG it should be a reasonable car. The exhaust issues and lack of tax would worry me though: if the front pipe and cat have gone it could be silly money and no tax will probably mean he won't let you give it the full on road test drive it (and you) need.

 

I'd avoid LS400s as I've seen far too many of 'em with loads of expensive faults - everything on an LS400 is expensive to fix. The dashboard failing to light up is a common one (and worse than it sounds as they've got the 'black hole' dash). Cam wear is common on old ones, brakes, shocks and bushes wear quickly just with the sheer weight of the things. climate control systems pack in expensively, exhausts are mental money and nobody will pay much for the complete car so everything you spend fixing it is just like setting fire to money.

 

The Omega is in a similar boat, but the bits aren't as expensive. There's a lot more chance of finding decent Omega bits in a scrappie for pennies, too. If it's an LPG one you're after, don't forget that while LPG is cheap as chips to run, you do lose a bit of power so if you're looking at something that isn't exactly pokey in the first place..

 

Snot hard to find a well maintained Omega for a few hundred quid, I've considered them a few times but almost every one I've been to look at has had the infamous Omega 'dancing sunroof' syndrome. As I don't like sunroofs, this is enough to put me off.

[The Reverend Bluejeans]

An LS400 would be a laugh if it were little more than Bridge money (i.e £400) with a longish MOT. The clack-clack-clack of a shagged cam lobe, the gentle blow of a holed exhaust and the sheer nastiness of a 20 year old mousefur/schoolteacher-slip-on-grey-shoes leather interior allied to startling performance.....they do shift along a bit.

 

For 400 quid you'd run it for as long as it ran (which could be a long time) and when it dies, you'd do a 'U R BIDIN 4 A WHEELNUT' Egay breaking add to reclaim 2-300 sheets before putting the rest of it on the scales.

 

 

And WTF is a dancing sunroof? Reminds me of that Randy Newman/Muppets song ' "Who needs money when you're funny? The big attraction everywhere will be Simon Smith and his dancing Omega Sunroof"

 

 

Sorry Pete.

[Spottedlaurel]

My advice is get something with zero appeal in the company car park and long-term ownership; so, Japanese or South East Asian.....

 

I'll stop you there, Camry 2.2 perfectly fits that description. The engine was slightly too large to fit comfortably into our company tax classes when they came out, so chances are most of those still around will have been privately owned, and they're the sort of car where people keep them a long time. No HGF woes, yes they have a cam belt but it doesn't seem to be too much hassle/cost to get that changed if necessary. Loads of room under the bonnet to replace other stuff, and I won't bore you with how good they are otherwise. They're proper built-in-Japan cars too, the saloons anyway.

 

Like any car, experience with them will very much be dictated by how well the previous owner has looked after it but the risks seem much lower than many of the cars mentioned above.

[Luxobarges_Are_Us]

My advice is get something with zero appeal in the company car park and long-term ownership; so, Japanese or South East Asian.....

 

I'll stop you there, Camry 2.2 perfectly fits that description. The engine was slightly too large to fit comfortably into our company tax classes when they came out, so chances are most of those still around will have been privately owned, and they're the sort of car where people keep them a long time. No HGF woes, yes they have a cam belt but it doesn't seem to be too much hassle/cost to get that changed if necessary. Loads of room under the bonnet to replace other stuff, and I won't bore you with how good they are otherwise. They're proper built-in-Japan cars too, the saloons anyway.

 

Like any car, experience with them will very much be dictated by how well the previous owner has looked after it but the risks seem much lower than many of the cars mentioned above.

 

A Camry would be superb, but you have more chance of winning the lottery than finding a 2.2 Camry with an LPG conversion for sale.

[Pete-M]

And WTF is a dancing sunroof? Reminds me of that Randy Newman/Muppets song ' "Who needs money when you're funny? The big attraction everywhere will be Simon Smith and his dancing Omega Sunroof"

 

Sorry Pete.

 

Omegas, for some reason had this stupid rotary dial for how open you want the sunroof. Which has gone wrong on most of the Omegas I've seen in the last couple of years, resulting in the sunroof randomly opening / tilting / closing whenever it feels like. Quite unnerving. Think it's just a fuse pulling operation to cure it

 

[Spottedlaurel]

Why worry about LPG? You'll easily crack 30mpg in a 2.2. And anything fitted with LPG is just going to cost more in the first place, will you really save enough to warrant it?

[Luxobarges_Are_Us]

Why worry about LPG?

 

I'm not that bothered about fuel economy. LPG is the only way to get a parking permit for Sheffield city centre where I live.

[Spottedlaurel]

Ah, well in that case look for the V6 versions as it’s a bit more common to see them with LPG.

[garethj]

You’re limiting yourself severely by getting one with LPG. If your budget is £1500 (is it, I forget now?) then how about a £500 car and a new LPG kit?

 

I’ve run a few big old cars and can heartily recommend the older RWD Volvos, my 740 is really tough, 240s should be the same. If you don’t need an estate, you get a lot of saloon car for your money. Later 940s are a bit heavy on the electronics, and electronics aren’t Volvos strong suit. 850s are supposed to be quite good and a more modern drive, we’ve got an S80 and it’s very comfortable but with 110,000 miles it’s not as reliable as my 170,000 mile 740 which is twice the age.

 

We had a Mitsu Galant that was nice, auto boxes can be a weakness on Japanese cars of that era and the bearings went on our manual car, but otherwise it was a very nice drive with the V6. 2.2 Camrys look nice and seem to go for years, I’d expect them to be similar to the Mitsubishi in terms of a wafting drive and reliability.

 

If an LPG kit for a grand is viable, it opens up a world of opportunity for you. FWIW I’d stay away from a Lexus, lovely when they’re going well but $$$$ if it doesn’t and worthless when it happens too.

 

As for the pro-Land Rover posts I can overlook the fact they’re noisy, thirsty and BL standard, because it’s fun to drive. It’s the fact they’re ££££ for a shitter that bothers me. I wouldn't recommend one to someone who's after a luxurious barge though

[Luxobarges_Are_Us]

You’re limiting yourself severely by getting one with LPG. If your budget is £1500 (is it, I forget now?) then how about a £500 car and a new LPG kit?

 

I don't really have a pre-set budget...If somebody showed me a near-pristine mid-to-late 80s CX/Laurel/Granada with a folder full of invoices and a recentish, sequential LPG conversion, I'd have no problems paying three grand for it. However, there's no bloody way I'd pay 3 grand for a clattered 2002 S-Type just because it's got LPG. Or £1295 for a 200k Volvo S40 with "FULL AND UP-TO-DATE HISTORY" (capitals copied straight from the advert) which only consists of bloody stamps!

 

I reckon you can get a conversion done for a grand if you look hard enough- the problem with the £500 car + conversion option is that, in all likelihood, a £500 car, even if it's solid, will have a number of things that need fiddling with...just like the Accord I've got now (even the battery is shite- it went flat because I forgot one bloody courtesy light on for a few hours). More expense, more agony, and more chances of getting it wrong (I've had a car pretty much ruined by a dodgy LPG conversion that wasn't even cheap- I know more about the whole process now, but it's been traumatic enough for me to want to buy something that's already in place).

 

The latest on the search is that a V6 Camry has been found. I'm going down to Leicester to have a look, but will also try and get a bodyshop to look at that Merc. I also viewed a 2002 Omega 2.2 that's local and quite mint, up for £1495, which I'm seriously considering although it again is a bit low-spec (no cruise or leather) so it kinda spoils the barge experience.

[garethj]

Peter on here sniffed out a lovely Merc for about £500, something you could park outside the Savoy. My Volvo was £400 even though it’s the desirable (all relative innit) estate with 7 seater option. Mint condition saloons are worth sod-all and can be reliable if you buy a good one. As I said, it’s holding out for an LPG that’s limiting your choice. Pete-M’s Jag looks lovely for the money if you can add LPG and still be in budget. Don’t forget that any old car might have LPG issues so might have to factor in a few quid for a service or incorrect installation.

 

As I’ve done some management workshops I’ll encourage you to look at “the elephant in the room†and “think outside the box†for a “win-win scenarioâ€Â. How much would it cost to buy a parking permit versus a free one for LPG cars? Is this like some car buyers who pay £250 a month on finance because their car needs £300 work for the MoT....?