RFU rescues a Rover 620ti! ABS borked, then fixed

[RoverFolkUs]

7 minutes ago, fatharris said:

1 hour ago, RoverFolkUs said:

Silly mileometer moment: 

(118620)
Unfortunately the alarm/central locking has shit the bed
The remote fob has stopped working, and now it sets the alarm off every time I unlock the driver's door.. it's a right game getting it to disarm, I'm hoping it's just a dead battery in the fob
I'm dreading it's something more than the battery in the fob though, sometimes the central locking operates from the key in the driver's door but sometimes it doesn't 
Joy!

Had this twice, and a reseat of the battery brought it back to life

Ah cheers, if that's sorts it I'll be happy as Larry! I'll do it when at home though to avoid getting stranded if it goes totally senile 😅

[RoverFolkUs]

Alarm foibles sorted, the remote fob was previously taking a couple of attempts before locking/unlocking, and then it stopped working altogether the other day, followed by the alarm going off every time I unlocked the driver's door with the key. 

I disconnected the battery as suggested by @fatharris and thought I might as well check the batteries in the key fob while I'm at it. They were a little low at 5.9v (2x CR2016 fitted) so I put a pair of fresh ones in which were about 6.5v. 

After reconnecting the battery, the fob now works on the first press of button to lock/unlock and no more alarm chaos. Nice easy fix! 

I was in the mood for some tinkering so did a smoke test to check for any air leaks in the intake system as I suspected there may be something as it seemed to be a little bit hesitant at times and I had only ever seen the boost guage get up to around 10psi. Turns out it had a huge boost leak from the flange between the turbo and the dump valve! 

Took the dump valve off to inspect

I found the sealing ring had gone flat so it wasn't able to maintain full boost pressure! 

I made a slightly crude paper gasket for the low pressure (induction) side, and reassembled it with some RTV and a new o-ring for the high pressure side. It looks messy, but:

It's functional! It now holds enough pressure before the smoke starts to escape via the dump valve itself which is fine. 

Went for a quick test run and I'd say there's a significant improvement, boost now reaches 14psi if I boot it, the air leak noise I heard under acceleration has gone and it now seems a lot more responsive and builds up boost nice and quickly from a lower RPM than before. It now starts to pull from around 2100-2200rpm whereas before I was noticing a bit of hesitancy before it started to boost around the 2600-2700rpm mark. 

Another free fix, and it's made a vast improvement to the car

[fatharris]

Ah decent, I only ever had 11psi max out of it!

[Gentil79]

Great work rescuing this one. Sounded really good when i saw it at Torque Moto in the 8th of March. Keep going!

[RoverFolkUs]

Well, somehow it looks like I've managed to put 1000 miles on this already! Although it will be having a bit of a break soon towards the end of this month. 

I actually gave it the first proper wash (albeit slightly half-arsed) in my ownership 😂 - that photo definitely flatters it. I do need to rectify my poor paint job to the rear arches but the rest of the paint is full of contaminants and it looks like someone has gone over the whole car with a brillo pad at some point so it's quite low down on my priorities! 

It hasn't skipped a beat at all, and it's very good at eating the miles up. Having rectified the seized shock absorber situation, allowing the suspension to actually travel 😅 it's a bit of a boat on the back roads (of which there are plenty in Sussex) but it's still nice enough on whichever road you take it on. Managed a very pleasant 2 hour trip the other week with plenty of traffic jams and I didn't feel any aches at all once I'd arrived, compared to the Focus where I probably would have. 

Economy is decent, I'm averaging 300-350 miles per tank by the looks of it, around the 25-30mpg mark combined. Not the best but not the worst either. I was barely knocking on the door of 32mpg from the Focus which is only  a 1.6 N/A petrol

As I say, it's been a very reliable 1000 miles but there have been a couple of quirks:

- It intermittently has a mind of it's own and will idle at 2000-2200rpm from cold, or 1600rpm when warm. Restarting the engine usually cures it 🤷‍♂️ doesn't change the way it drives at all when it decides to do it. Someone mentioned a throttle stepper motor reset which might be worthwhile? 

- Just the once, the clutch felt very strange. It went really heavy and felt like a spring, losing it's graduality, with it eventually biting right at the end of its travel. I could be getting this wrong, but I seem to recall @fatharris describing something similar before replacing the clutch? It only took about half an hour of driving before returning to normal and it's been fine ever since, now biting about 2/3 of the way and being positively light exactly as I'd expect it to be. I can only assume it may have got a bit warm but I certainly wasn't ragging it. I'll probably just end up keeping an eye on this, but I'm writing it down just to keep a diary of it!

All in all, I've definitely gelled with the car and it's the perfect replacement for the MG and the Focus by combining the interesting,fun and practical natures. I think it's proved itself to be reliable enough that I'll consider letting the Focus go now because that's been parked up unused for about 6 months now which seems a bit of a waste! 

[fatharris]

Yeah, you're right, it happened when we were stop/starting in traffic when fully loaded, fully cured as soon as we got some airflow through the engine bay. This only occured when trying to leave Silverstone on race day so an eternity of slipping the clutch etc to get up a hill, one car length at a time!

Never happened again and I changed the clutch shortly after, but I did keep a shorting link for the engine cooling fans switch which I never had to use, but deemed a necessary emergency solution - seem to recall it's a brown plug with two wires at the top of the engine, front drivers side 😅 may still be in the coin tray next to the ignition switch! Assumed that would have been helpful if it had ever occured again.

I do still very much miss it 🤣

[RoverFolkUs]

I've managed to liaise a bit and agree a lower price with this seller who was being a bit of a character at first, I'm sorely tempted, I think the spoiler can only add value to the car so there's not much for me to lose

I've got an Accord one on order but it's a lot smaller and I think the original rover one will look a lot better 

[RoverFolkUs]

Well well well, what do we have here

After the previous seller totally messed me around for the blue spoiler (who was asking £250, then £150!) I can only assume they were a scammer as they got cold feet and blocked me when I suggested collecting it in person....

I put up a warning post about them, then received a message from someone who said they had one lurking in the shed. £40 posted and here it is! 

I'm delighted. Can't wait to get it painted and fitted!

The accord lip spoiler has since arrived from abroad, I might as well resell that as I can't have 2 fitted at once!

[RoverFolkUs]

Couldn't help but offer it up to see how it looks

It's difficult to tell with the colour difference but I think anyone would agree it looks good! 

I must get around to repainting the rear arches the correct shade 😅

[RoverFolkUs]

There have been mystery stains appearing on the ground underneath where the Rover is parked over the past few weeks, but I couldn't find any evidence of a leak, all levels have stayed where they should be. 

I'd set off on a journey today, stopped off to get some fuel after about 15 miles and parked at the supermarket to get a few bits. When I got back, I had a sixth sense telling me I should check the oil level before I carried on so I popped the bonnet and checked. The oil was all ok but I looked down and saw coolant dripping from the front coolant rail (joins the water pump, turbo coolant and radiator hoses) at quite an alarming rate. Bugger. Looked under the car and there was a sizeable puddle 

Decided to abort the journey, topped up the coolant and instead very cautiously started heading back home trying to keep the engine as cool as possible. Stopped off half way and it was absolutely bone dry. Checked the level and it was fine, so carried on home. 

Got home, and again it was still bone dry and the level was ok. 

I can only assume it's happening when the engine is getting hotter and there's more pressure in the cooling system. Then it's evaporating due to the heat from the turbo which is pretty much next to the pipe. Only once it cools down a bit does it start to leak and form a puddle while there's still a certain amount of pressure in the system. Initial suspicion was a rotted coolant rail but since it's not leaking constantly it surely can't be that. I'm glad to have spotted it actually leaking otherwise I'd have never solved the mystery of the puddle. But it's playing silly buggers with me as it's dry now!!

Could have been much worse, I was expecting to have to get recovered home, glad it managed a cautious retreat home but it's now off the road until I find the cause of it and rectify it, I can't risk a proper FTP!

[mercedade]

I've had some experience water leak chasing on T series turbos (although apologies if they changed the layout for the 600ti).

Common areas:

• the three-legged rubber pipe that feeds coolant to the turbo  - for whatever reason, it's not actually moulded as three legs, it has one teeing off it which is hose-clamped to the 'main' hose run. That clamp can fail.
• The water pump is driven by the power-steering pump, on which the drive is a key  - this can fail, and when it does you may see water start to leak from the pump before it entirely stop spinning. Bad times.
• Rad caps are shite, as are the expansion tanks. Easily replaced with Volvo 850 or Audi items.

Sounds like you can see where its coming from which is a great start.

[RoverFolkUs]

I completely forgot to update with the solution to the coolant leak

A pressure test revealed a leak from the front lower coolant rail which joins the water pump, bottom hose and turbo coolant hoses. 

It was very crusty, but it's probably still serviceable if I rub it back and paint it. 

Fortunately a few weeks prior, someone in the owners group had another one in much better condition so I bought it just in case. Luck was definitely on my side since it then decided to give me a problem which meant I could grab it off the shelf and fit the replacement straight away 😅

I wasn't able to completely stop it from weeping when I put the pressure tester on max because the rubber hoses have gone quite hard with age so aren't clamping down very well, but under normal driving, it's been fine and hasn't lost any coolant having covered a few hundred miles since. 

[RoverFolkUs]

Took the Rover on its first adventure in my ownership and it happily covered more than 300 miles over a long weekend visit to the isle of wight for the annual takeover event. 

I know the car still isn't looking it's best, but it didn't stop me from grabbing a few beauty* pictures!

It handled the trip perfectly well and even achieved a nice mileometer moment on the way back to the ferry port

The only problem I faced was the clutch again, when queuing (for nearly a couple of hours) to get into the event, through a combination of hilly roads and stop start through fields, the clutch behaved weirdly again, a heavy pedal with a higher bite point. Eventually it had got so hot it was starting to slip through the field. Once cooled, the pedal feels returned to normal and I can't get it to slip anymore when tested. 

This leads me to think the friction material and/or pressure plate are of poor quality and can't handle the heat very well. It does judder very slightly on pulling away but it's always done that for me. I would say the bite point has always been a little higher than I expected for a clutch that has recently been replaced (with no adjustment, it's all hydraulic)

I'm currently debating whether to bite the bullet and fit an LuK clutch kit or just leave it until it starts slipping. I think it will be fine for a while since it was only replaced last year or so, but if it continues to misbehave after waiting in queues with lots of stop start traffic I think I'll have to consider replacing it. 

[High Jetter]

Looks great! If you see an old skinny guy driving anything Daihatsu,  buy him a drink, will refund if it's the right guy.

[DodgeRover]

If it's a hydraulic clutch could the build up of heat be boiling the fluid?

[RoverFolkUs]

13 hours ago, High Jetter said:

Looks great! If you see an old skinny guy driving anything Daihatsu,  buy him a drink, will refund if it's the right guy.

T'was last weekend, didn't see anyone matching that description 😃

4 hours ago, DodgeRover said:

If it's a hydraulic clutch could the build up of heat be boiling the fluid?

That usually has the opposite effect, pedal going soft/to the floor and being unable to select a gear

[DodgeRover]

Binding up due to the heat then maybe?

[RoverFolkUs]

Oh, joy

It's still on some 30 miles later with a few engine restarts so it's probably not just a blip

[vaughant]

On 23/05/2025 at 21:01, RoverFolkUs said:

A pressure test

My go to tool now with any sort of coolant issue, fantastic things, solved some really weird faults on a few cars now that didn't highlight at all in normal running.

[fatharris]

10 hours ago, RoverFolkUs said:

Oh, joy

It's still on some 30 miles later with a few engine restarts so it's probably not just a blip

Oh bloody hell, that infernal light.

It's ABS5 on that, not the more common setup on the 600s so information is sparse at best. Paperclip test time for you then, it's the connector above the pedals and the ECU can be separated from the module and replaced without breaking into the hydraulics. I think I created a topic on here about it to act as a repository for ABS useful information.

Sad to see the clutch issue is still there, the one time it happened, I changed the clutch shortly afterwards and never had it again.

Still looks bloody great though.

[RoverFolkUs]

8 hours ago, fatharris said:

Oh bloody hell, that infernal light.

It's ABS5 on that, not the more common setup on the 600s so information is sparse at best. Paperclip test time for you then, it's the connector above the pedals and the ECU can be separated from the module and replaced without breaking into the hydraulics. I think I created a topic on here about it to act as a repository for ABS useful information.

Sad to see the clutch issue is still there, the one time it happened, I changed the clutch shortly afterwards and never had it again.

Still looks bloody great though.

Thank you, that's the blue 2 pin connector isn't it? Just by chance I was hoovering it out the other day and spotted that connector so I suppose that's handy timing 😅

The clutch issue hasn't resurfaced in normal driving, so I think I'll just leave it for now and monitor how it behaves 

[RoverFolkUs]

Just read the codes and it's come up with code 1-5, helpfully @fatharris posted this when he was having troubles before 

So looks like it may be a duff speed sensor, or perhaps wiring to it. A happier result than another failed ECU

[fatharris]

Rear ABS sensors?

I'd have rather the ECU, the rear sensors are a notorious pain to source and replace on these, and the ECUs don't need any form of coding :lol:

[RoverFolkUs]

3 hours ago, fatharris said:

Rear ABS sensors?

I'd have rather the ECU, the rear sensors are a notorious pain to source and replace on these, and the ECUs don't need any form of coding

Gah, bumhats. I'd got my hopes up because I'd checked eBay beforehand and there were some NOS front sensors for about £30 each and some aftermarket Bosch rear ones (listed for a 620Ti) for around £70

But they're completely different. As you point out, with this having a different model of ABS system to other 600s, it seems these sensors are unobtainium, every search result is coming up as the incorrect type. Spoke to the local factors and they said it's after the changeover year and they list nothing for it. 

Thank you for the heads up about the difference in ABS systems, it's saved me an awful lot of time!

Pulled out the boot carpets and compared readings between the sensors, I measured about 1k ohms from the NSR sensor which is about right for an inductive sensor like this. However the OSR is reading near open circuit, around 10 megaohms. So the fault definitely lies there. 

The wiring does detach from the sensor so I've tried seeing if I can find the sensor on its own (I've had luck with this before where the individual sensor can be found, but manufacturer specific brackets or wiring makes them unobtainium otherwise) - sadly no joy with Google lens. 

All of the ones on eBay are this type and they're completely different

[RoverFolkUs]

In other news, I've ripped out the absolutely abhorrent wiring spaghetti caused by the sodding aftermarket Bluetooth system. I've left the dongle and microphone in situ but removed all the control modules for it and ISO adaptor, plugging the car's loom directly into the head unit. I was a bit annoyed about the ABS sensor situation so getting in the car and hearing "BOOOOOOOOOP" was a welcome distraction for something to tackle and relieve my stress 😂

I've got a Bluetooth FM transmitter in the 12v socket which does everything, the above setup is a complete waste of space and the flashing lights while driving at night were getting more and more irritating 

Sadly the electric aerial has stopped working again, it doesn't seem to do anything at all. I've still got the old unit which used to whirr away but not move so I'm hoping I can take both apart and make a good one out of the two. 

[Wibble]

2 minutes ago, RoverFolkUs said:

Gah, bumhats. I'd got my hopes up because I'd checked eBay beforehand and there were some NOS front sensors for about £30 each and some aftermarket Bosch rear ones (listed for a 620Ti) for around £70

But they're completely different. As you point out, with this having a different model of ABS system to other 600s, it seems these sensors are unobtainium, every search result is coming up as the incorrect type. Spoke to the local factors and they said it's after the changeover year and they list nothing for it. 

Thank you for the heads up about the difference in ABS systems, it's saved me an awful lot of time!

Pulled out the boot carpets and compared readings between the sensors, I measured about 1k ohms from the NSR sensor which is about right for an inductive sensor like this. However the OSR is reading near open circuit, around 10 megaohms. So the fault definitely lies there. 

The wiring does detach from the sensor so I've tried seeing if I can find the sensor on its own (I've had luck with this before where the individual sensor can be found, but manufacturer specific brackets or wiring makes them unobtainium otherwise) - sadly no joy with Google lens. 

All of the ones on eBay are this type and they're completely different

I feel your pain. I spent over a year searching for a rear ABS sensor for the Senator. Eventually stumbled across a thread from a Lotus Carlton group, saying Opel Kadett E sensors fit. £12 instead of the £150 quoted everywhere else that didn’t actually have any stock. Good luck!

[RayMK]

@RoverFolkUs Apparently, the Rover 600 is a reskinned European Honda Accord.  Any chance that these have the same rear ABS sensors?  Even if they are, they may be impossible to source.  You may have already drawn a blank with Honda as you've consulted with knowledgable 600 experts who tend to be aware of alternative sources.  Can the signal from the working sensor be fed to the ECU via left and right inputs? Semi ABS on the rear but no warning lights could be a sort of win 😀.  I suppose swapping the rear brake assembly for the later type, even if it's possible, would require a lot more effort and still be a risk of the electronics not being compatible.  

[RoverFolkUs]

35 minutes ago, RayMK said:

@RoverFolkUs Apparently, the Rover 600 is a reskinned European Honda Accord.  Any chance that these have the same rear ABS sensors?  Even if they are, they may be impossible to source.  You may have already drawn a blank with Honda as you've consulted with knowledgable 600 experts who tend to be aware of alternative sources.  Can the signal from the working sensor be fed to the ECU via left and right inputs? Semi ABS on the rear but no warning lights could be a sort of win 😀.  I suppose swapping the rear brake assembly for the later type, even if it's possible, would require a lot more effort and still be a risk of the electronics not being compatible.  

Give this man a medal!!!!

Just searched for Accord MK5 abs sensors, this looks like the one with the orange plug. They even had a coupon which got it down to £32.95. Ordered.

If this works, I owe you a pint! 😂

[High Jetter]

Man with Rhonda has a Rhevelation!

[RoverFolkUs]

7 minutes ago, High Jetter said:

Man with Rhonda has a Rhevelation!

For some reason I (wrongly) assumed the Hondas would use the same type of sensor that was incorrect, I just assumed it was a Rover quirk because it was produced longer than the accords and I understand this has a later ABS system fitted 

That'll teach me for assuming 😂