French future shite Peugeot 607

[Lukas]

Hi!

 

I would like to know if the Peugeot 607 2.2 HDI Automatic is a reliable car to recommend or not.

 

I have to say I like the look of those, I like the interieur, they are very cheap and good value for money compared to german cars of this class and I´m going to testdrive one today at a BMW-dealer.

 

This one:

 

http://www.gebrauchtwagen.at/detailansi ... eug=910311

 

 

Ok, they are FWD so that´s a big drawback, but if there is only very little or no torque-steer, I might live with that.

 

Do you know anything about them?

 

Lukas

[ChinaTom]

The tragedy here is that were you to settle for a RHD car, you could buy 5 or 6 of these for that price here in UK.

[Station]

Think they're great looking cars, reminds me of the 605, like a better version of the 405 - without looking like a taxi driver.

[Alexg]

Short of investing your life savings in that pensions and healthcare company called General Motors, buying Peugeot’s flagship is about the stupidest thing you can do. Spend the guts of 29 grand on one of these and after a year you will be lucky to get half your cash back. It is an ugly car without an image from a brand without top end prestige. Steer well clear.

 

[trigger]

I quite like the look of them, There's a bloke at work who has one, He's had it for years now, The interior looks pretty swanky as well.

 

Mind you €10,900 is a hell of a lot of money compared to what they cost over here!.

[AnthonyG]

Not very reliable and the handling is pretty poor - they actually were recalled at launch due to poor directional stability, highlighted by early testers.

 

How much is a early Citroen C6 in Austria? - now that's a French luxury car worth having

[Station]

 

Short of investing your life savings in that pensions and healthcare company called General Motors, buying Peugeot’s flagship is about the stupidest thing you can do. Spend the guts of 29 grand on one of these and after a year you will be lucky to get half your cash back. It is an ugly car without an image from a brand without top end prestige. Steer well clear.

 

Amusing, but he seems to compare every car to his Lamborghini Murcielago thingy. If it's not as good as his Murcielago, but it's quirky and doesn't have creature comforts like ABS, then it's crap.

[Milford Cubicle]

Not very reliable and the handling is pretty poor - they actually were recalled at launch due to poor directional stability, highlighted by early testers.

If I recall correctly the 607 failed the Swedish 'elk test' because of lift-off oversteer (GR8 4 DRIFTIN), but this was cured on production cars.

I bet they're very nice to drive actually, probably not far off a 406.

[MK5 Escort]

Future shite without doubt. It's reasonable rarity is also a bonus.

 

A friend of my father's has one and adores it. He bought an early example brand new in silver which had cream leather. He knows a few people who work for Peugeot which ate some of the shocking depreciation in discount. I remember sitting in it the day after he collected it and I can still remember what a lovely cabin it was to sit in. Ruched leather and a swanky dashboard. He then bought another brand new one in 2003 - and still has it to this day.

 

The 607 does take some stick and we know it’s days are now numbered. However, I think it's by far the prettiest Peugeot in the range (although that's not a difficult task these days with the monstrosities they build, is it?) and I've always had a soft spot for it.

 

There's an 03 plater, 2.2 HDi waft-o-matic, on eBay at the moment currently going for a shade under £1400. Extra shite points for velour interior too!

[CIH]

Nice comfy barge IMO. How about a Renault Vel Satis 3.2 v6 ?

 

 

Guarnateed 100% future shite.

[Dead_E23]

dieselnutjob has a 607 HDi auto and seems really pleased with it. I've had a poke around it and it's not a bad old thing at all. I don't know about paying 10k for one, though!

 

They're not exactly the fastest thing on four wheels, as I expect may have found out if you drove one today.

[Lukas]

Now I know a lot more!

 

I drove it and I will not buy one for 10.000 Euro. It´s nice, comfortable, quiet, not fast but reasonable quick, I think the suspension is great compared to very hard german cars, but I think I can´t live with it for more than a few month. It is beautiful, but somehow boring. It just didn´t talk to me, or in a different language, so I have to say the same thing about it that I said after the Volvo S80-testdrive: Nice, but not interesting enough for me, sorry.

[Pillock]

 

I let one of these through a gap towards me today, I must say I was impressed at how bonkers Citroen designers continue to be! It's almost like it's lovably ugly, like you just want to pity it and give it space in your garage.

[pogweasel]

Hmm, Franco-wafty shite, yes, but surely for ultimate luxo-grot it's got to be an Alfa 166, ruinous depriciation, PLUS the added fear that it will grenade itself in some horribly expensive way the second you let your guard down... but the noise, the detailing... oh yes please.

[Guest]

I think this sums up the ownership experience of an Alfa 166 quite nicely.

 

1999 Alfa Romeo 166 T.Spark

 

Looks nice, always a smart-looking car these Alfas.

 

 

Comes with spares, that's handy.

 

 

Even more spares, that's great.

 

 

Balls.

[warren t claim]

At the end of the day that Alfa 166 is 12 years old and many cars that age are in a similar state of disrepair.

[Negative Creep]

Still would though

[Lukas]

http://www.gebrauchtwagen.at/detailansi ... ug=1002735

 

 

That´s the cheapest used Citroen C6 available in Austria by now. But I don´t like the styling somehow, can´t say why. Manual too... Can´t affort it, so no problem.

[Lukas]

I got some PMs from members asking me if I´m an FWD-hater, so I´ll explain it here too. No, I am not a simple "hater", I am very confident in my point of view why FWD is only the third choice so I have explained it here:

 

http://oldjapanesecar.proboards.com/ind ... 540&page=6

 

Go to the end of page six, but maybe some can´t be bothered to look at OJC.com so I will quote my article here:

 

It´s a "driving comfort"-thing. I don´t want to drift or something like that, but there are a few points that always made me hate FWD-cars, especially when they have more horsepower than a Cuore. Driving comfort is not only good seats or electric windows, it is more than that.

 

Please let me try to explain it:

 

* At first, one of the big differences is the mounting of the engine in the body. If you are a careful driver, you can feel the difference between a lengthwise mounted engine like this (like all the RWD-cars, only Audi compares it with FWD or quattro nowadays)

 

 

and a transversely (I don´t know the right word in english) mounted engine like that (like most FWD-cars)

 

 

If you step on the accelerator, you can feel the movement of the engine in the engine-bay. Of course it moves only a little bit, but you can feel it!

 

A lengthwise mounted engine moves from the left to the right, that movement is not noticeable, except when the car is standing still.

 

But an engine that is mounted transversely (?) into the engine bay moves back and forward in the car when stepping on the accelerator or stepping on the brake. You can feel this movement a lot more than the left-right-movement, the comfort of the ride is higher on a car with lengthwise mounted engine. Of course only a little bit, but in this class, those little things are important too. This may not be important when driving a little car to Tesko, but an executive car has to be more sophisticated.

 

* The second point is the feel when cornering and accelerating. With a RWD or AWD (Subaru, Audi) car, the steering is a lot more precise than in a FWD-car because on a FWD-car, the front tires must move the car from left to right (or opposite ) and forward too. And this is the bad thing: When the front tires have to deliver all the accelerating AND turning forces you will always feel it on the wheel when going through a corner.

 

On a RWD-car, the front tires (and you can only "feel" the tires on the front through the steering wheel ) only have to deliver cornering forces from the steering to the street, no driving forces like accelerating. This is the second big difference in the feel when you drive a FWD or a RWD car. The feel on the steering wheel of a RWD-car when going to the corner is more precise because of this facts.

 

An AWD-car uses all four tires to deliver accelerating forces to the street, so the front tires only have to deliver half the forces than the wheels on a FWD-car, so the feel on the steeringwheel when cornering is better too, compared to FWD.

 

* And the third point is the feel when accelerating hard. Even on a completely straight street, you can feel the difference between FWD and RWD.

The FWD-car is "pulled" forward, the RWD-car is "pushed" forward. You can feel this difference on hard accelerating, not only in the steering wheel but also in the movement of the car.

 

A RWD-car rises it´s hood a bit and is pushed forward, at a the FWD-car it tears/tugs at the steering wheel.

 

These are the little things that make an executive car an executive car, these little trifles decide between "good" riding comfort and "excellent" riding comfort.

 

As I said, it´s not important in a cheap little car with a few hp for short drives around town, but in an executive car with a lot of horsepower and torque like the Sonata 2.2 CRDI VGT or the Grandeur 3.3 V6, it´s a big drawback!

 

I hope you can understand my points, it is very hard for me to tell this in english, it took me nearly an hour to write this message because in english it is a lot harder for me to make my points clear.

 

Lukas

I hope all of you that sent me angry PMs would understand that and all of you recognise that I have a point of view and I´m not only a simple "hater".

 

L

[ChinaTom]

Who the hell sent hate-mail regarding that? That's not cricket. An interesting point of view maybe, and not shared by many also maybe, but this is A-S and that's kind of the whole point.

 

I like RWD as the transmission tunnel stops the detritus in the rear footwells from rolling around.

[pogweasel]

I agree that doesn't sound like behaviour becoming of the AS membership.

 

I like RWD purely because I am a childish moron and going sideways makes me grin like a twat.

[Timewaster]

I got some PMs from members asking me if I´m an FWD-hater

 

I hope all of you that sent me angry PMs would understand that and all of you recognise that I have a point of view and I´m not only a simple "hater".

 

L

Name and shame! Not autoshite behavior

[Guest]

 

I like RWD purely because I am a childish moron and going sideways makes me grin like a twat.

+1

[fiatdaft]

fwd can go sideway's aswell !

[barrett]

Whoever sent this hatemail needs to be exposed and strung up on a burning Marina. Or something.

does seem funny though, if you've got something to say, surely you can say it in public, eh?

[Negative Creep]

 

 

I like RWD purely because I am a childish moron and going sideways makes me grin like a twat.

+1

 

Same here. I prefer the feel of rear wheel drive even when I'm not tying the OMG RWD DRIFT JDM SPEC INITIAL D DK YO!!!!!1! routine

[Lukas]

I sent them both a reply, but I will not post their names here because the two members know it anyway and PMs are personal, so that was it. But thanks four your opinion on that and that you let me explain why FWD is just the third choice for me without thinking I´m a stupid hater.

 

L

[dieselnutjob]

Mine is also a 2.2 HDI automatic and I'm happy with it.

It has had a few problems though.

The cambelt snapped on the previous owner and I also see bills for a new drive shaft and electric window regulator in the pile of receipts.

The car is now up to 80 something thousand miles and is a very early one actually built in December 2000.

Problems I've had.

 

Tyre pressure sensors seem to leak as they get old. It's not the sensor itself but the rubber sealing washer. If you try to remove the sensor to change the washer it usually destroys the sensor. Sensors are now only £25 each new though so not such a big deal. You need some heavy duty dealer diagnostic equipment to program in the new sensors though (which I have).

 

I had to top up the aolys fluid (for the particulate system) a year back which prompted the purchase of the diag equipment, and now the filter seems to be nearly permanently blocked anyway and so a new particulate filter is needed which is expensive. I might well just disable the system completely as I think the economy will improve.

 

The 4HP20 ZF transmission is tough, but also "sealed for life". It would appear that this "life" is about 100,000 miles. I don't believe in "sealed for life" so I have started doing periodic fluid changes. I hope to make it last a lot longer. It's not that easy to change though. Also you can't change the filters unlike BMWs with the same transmission, only the fluid.

 

The motor that controls the heater flaps got messed up with the result the you basically can't demist the windscreen. Everytime I resyncronised the motor/cogs it would work for a month or so until it messed up again. I have now modified it and gotten it to be reliable. The official fix is to buy a new heater flap mechanism with a modified design which looks a total b$!!d to fit. My method works and was quite easy to do.

 

The automatic wipers would go a bit mental, and automatic position replaced the intermittent setting on other Peugeots so when it goes mental your stuffed unless it's raining heavily enough for constant wipe. Rain-x on the screen seems to make them work nicely though. Also the wipers starting creaking so I had to take the arms off and work some oil into the spindles

 

There seems to be a lot of rust on subframe / suspension components which is a bit worrying. I think I might have to do some preventative hammeriting at some point. I suppose it is 9 1/2 years old.

 

A reversing sensor failed and I had to get the bumper off to replace it. Was a bit pricey too. I used it as an opportunity to fit a removable type towbar.

 

I've also had exhausts and batteries etc but that doesn't count in my opinion.

 

I now have a front suspension clonk and the MOT man said it will need a track rod end and an anti roll bar drop link. He also said the front shocks are leaking but didn't fail it. It will get the track rod end and drop link this summer. Not sure about the shocks as they seem to work well.

 

The rear cigar lighter doesn't work because the central computer won't switch it on and appears to have no way of being programmed to make it switch on. Eventually I'll probably just wire it direct to a relay and cut out the computer control.

 

The LCD screen for the satnav/radio has missing lines and apparently they're all like that so used parts are no good. New ones are £400...

 

But you know what, for a what I paid for it and considering it's age and mileage I don't think that's too bad, apart from the timing belt. Peugeot paid the bill for the engine rebuild by the way, even though the warranty was out.

 

I wouldn't be surprised if the handling isn't as focused as the rear drive stuff but then I only paid half the price and I don't care anyway. What I need is an ultra comfortable cruiser for driving in congested London streets and around the M25 (the bit with roadworks).

 

What I like about it.

The tiptronic and very intelligent auto trans.

The big comfortable heated seats.

The auto everything.

The fantastic JBL stereo.

The quietness.

The conservative yet French style/feel that Peugeot occasionally get right.

 

If this had a Jag, BMW or Merc badge on it people would quietly accept the odd failure and pay the garage bills. It seems that only an enthusiast like me will bother looking after a Peugeot though. In a few years they'll all be basket cases and then they get scrapped because an old car with loads of minor faults and no working toys is not worth saving when eventually a big fault happens.

 

This is mine

[dollywobbler]

I'm a FWD nut myself. Guess it's just because I have spent 99% of my driving time in FWD. I don't want tail out action, I want safe point and squirt.

 

But then a 22 year old colleague has always driven RWD and wasn't a fan of his VW Golf as 'it just keeps scrabbling all the time!' Maybe preference is based on power as my cars generally don't have any...

[Mr_Bo11ox]

Hey fair play to ya DNJ. I take my hat off to you for not getting fazed by that lot, especially the bit about having to buy a fancy diagnostic gizmo to re-synchronize the tyre pressure sensors!!! Now that demands respect. Can I ask how much the gizmo cost?