1985 Ford Granada 2.8 Ghia

[nisfan]

My mk2 is the same, usually shows up after sitting a few days but if it's been sitting for weeks it takes a long time to fire. Didn't think about the float bowl emptying as that makes sense.

Mine is much the same as yours not mint but not hanging either.

 

[wesacosa]

might be worth cleaning around the base of the carb and then putting some white paper there to see if fuel is weeping anywhere.  If not its either evaporating (although rather quickly) or maybe weeping past a jet into the engine? 

obviously that's assuming the likely hypothesis that the chamber is emptying   

[rob88h]

Fuel appears to be escaping from the accelerator pump area. I’m presuming a torn diaphragm. 

This would drain a float bowl on an Weber DGAS, no? As far as I can tell the acc. pump pumps a passageway from low in the float bowl, so with a ruptured diaphragm the fuel is free to fall out overnight?
 

Durning the meanwhile I’ve re-plumbed it with new hose, clamps and a filter, taking a route away from the exhaust more similar to that on my Mk1:

I even bought a little step down double-ender 8mm to 6mm ID for the most snug return line fit.

I also tested with a vacuum across the pump (and filter) by blocking one end and pulling a vacuum across the other. It held 15 in/Hg as long as I could be bothered to sit there looking at it. So I’m pretty sure there are no engine bay hose or pump air leaks.

Im also fairly sure that anything pre-pump (tank side) would not affect fuel draining back? I could be wrong! 

 

[danthecapriman]

Nice job so far!

I don’t know if that leaking accelerator pump would definitely drain the float bowl, but it leaking like that isn’t good so changing that is a must regardless. 
Could you clean the area under that pump and lay a few sheets of clean tissue or paper underneath it overnight or for a couple of days and then come back to it and see if anything has leaked onto the paper? Obviously if it’s not been used since putting the paper under it and there’s fuel on the paper that means it must be draining from the float chamber?

Either way it needs that pump diaphragm changing.

Bloody annoying problem on these though isn’t it!?😄 I remember trying to start mine after it’d sat for a few days and it was a right pain until the float bowl filled up!

[rob88h]

I don’t think I mentioned. The engine is off in that video, so it’s just the head of Fuel in the float chamber that’s pushing fuel anywhere. 

[danthecapriman]

  On 19/08/2024 at 18:35, rob88h said:

I don’t think I mentioned. The engine is off in that video, so it’s just the head of Fuel in the float chamber that’s pushing fuel anywhere. 

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Ah, could well be then. It does look quite a big dribble, more than just whatever is still inside the accelerator pump? 
 

[cbowditch]

I've got 2 cortinas with the same engine as the Mk2 granada, also had a few granadas. Long crank from sitting is just part of the character of the car. I think we're all spoilt by fuel injection systems these days. These cars were designed to run on 4 star with a higher boiling point. The lower boiling point means the fuel evaporates in the hour or 2 after switching off when the engine is hot. After restarting when warm they run lumpy for a 30 seconds or so because the fuel in the lines is partly evaporated for the same reason

The only solution is to fit an electric pump but that detracts from the character of the car in my view.

[rob88h]

Lots of reports of TADTS… This is the fastest I’ve got it to start after sitting 24 hours, so I’m striving for more improvements:

I’ve replaced the accelerator pump diaphragm now so I’m hoping that more fuel will stay in the float bowl overnight rather than dripping out like the video further up. 

As far as I can tell the two little holes at the top are straight through to the float bowl so I’m assuming it would drain down to that height. It still leaves a decent amount in there though as can be heard from the initial cough in the latest video.

Replacing the diaphragm was a piece of cake despite the return spring containing some of the Spirit of Bellend and pertwanging off under the carb shield thing. Nae bother; retrieved, cleaned and returned.  

Let’s see how it starts tomorrow. 

[wesacosa]

No specific experience of mk2 Granada but fair bit of experience on older carb/mechanical fuel pump cars and even that cranking seems excessive for an overnight start. The Panda cranks maybe a bit longer than that when its been left but we are talking much longer than overnight, and I believe they are known for having weedy pumps which struggle to prime a dry system 

[danthecapriman]

That sort of cranking in your video is roughly how long my 1.6 Crapi takes to prime itself and fire up after sitting for a week or so. Overnight it’s much quicker.

Thats exactly how my old Granada was though. Even the starter sounds exactly the same!

[wesacosa]

I probably already asked ,@rob88h but how does it compare to the Mk1 Granada cranking time 

[grogee]

Could you put a non return valve in the carb feed pipe? 

[rob88h]

  On 21/08/2024 at 19:32, wesacosa said:

but how does it compare to the Mk1 Granada cranking time 

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I’d say the Mk1 is quicker… I only have this video which is not great proof! But I’m ashamed to say I haven’t started it up in over a year - and when it was running, it wasn’t a daily thing so I probably accepted some slow starts.

  On 21/08/2024 at 20:16, grogee said:

you put a non return valve in the carb feed pipe? 

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I have thought about this (or an electric pump), but I am hopeful things should be able to be improved by just getting it all into fine fettle. 
 

One problem is I don’t really know how the system works in full details, so diagnosing bits and bobs is just educated guesses. Like: is the pump supposed to check valve when the engine is off (I think not as it depends on where the pump stroke stops), does the pre-pump fuel delivery side have anything to do with it, such as a blocked vent or cap keeping a slight vacuum in the tank pulling fuel back, fuel or air leakage from the back (I’ve found some more hoses I should replace), the return line in the sender not being below the fuel level letting it all siphon back etc etc. 

[danthecapriman]

That mk1 is a beauty!

Those hoses in the pic look so old they’re becoming fossilised!😄

[HMC]

I love how it seems to shake the ground when it fires up 🔥 

[Noel Tidybeard]

an essex v6 does sound betterer than a cologne

[rob88h]

These are actually both Colognes. I’ve a 2.3 in my mk1 (LHD, French market, so not a Dagenham build) and a 2.8 in my mk2. 
The mk1 sounds fruity in that video thanks to “a less than solid” exhaust. 

[rob88h]

I THINK IT MIGHT BE FIXED**!
I couldn’t resist poppin’ the hood on the way past it this morning on my way to work. This is  18 hours since start up. Usually the filter is empty whenever I’ve checked over 12 hours. Can’t wait to get home to see how she starts. 

EDIT: repairing the leak on the acc. pump/ big carb air leak is the change leading to this result. 

[Lord Sterling]

Nice Granada Rob. Plus you're keeping it in the Ford family and in it's spiritual home.

  On 02/07/2024 at 23:25, Noel Tidybeard said:

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I literally used to live around the corner from this garage in Moseley, it partly even featured in a 80s Crimewatch episode as a chase after a bank robbery passed by there.

Sadly now just an M&S "Food Hall" 😟

[wesacosa]

how did the starting up go?

[Peter C]

  On 22/08/2024 at 19:35, wesacosa said:

how did the starting up go?

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Bump.

[rob88h]

I didn’t get any chance to start it yesterday… cliffhanger…, so it sat for 48 hours. 

I gave it one pump on the throttle, turned the key and whoosh!

Here’s the old acc pump diaphragm (leak path):

Based on the stories above I wasn’t expecting it to be this good.
I have also read that depending on where the mechanical pump stops in its stroke can help with effectively check-valving the fuel line. I prefer the theory that now I have a more airtight carb I’m holding fuel in the feed line in the same way that making a syringe air tight by putting your finger over the end gives drawing the plunger resistance. 

Next jobs are fitting rear seatbelts so I can  use it as a daily with the kids, and servicing the engine; oil, plugs, aux belts. 

[grogee]

  On 23/08/2024 at 10:47, rob88h said:

fitting rear seatbelts

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Will you get these from a breaker car? I wonder if Mk3 would fit? 

[rob88h]

  On 21/08/2024 at 18:59, rob88h said:

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I really enjoy the fact that YouTube auto captions the running V6 as "[Music]"

[rob88h]

  On 23/08/2024 at 13:59, grogee said:

Will you get these from a breaker car? I wonder if Mk3 would fit? 

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Breaker 😉

Productive evening! I’d already acquired all the bits from eBay; belts, buckles and c-pillar trim (they’re  different to allow for the shoulder pivot). 

I’d already stripped the rear in prep in-between problem solving the fuel leak start up issues.

The rear 6x4’s have seen better days…!

Even though I bought most of the parts from a breaker, I didn’t get the rear parcel shelf as I was confident I could modify mine successfully. The belts pass through from the boot, so you have to cut the parcel shelf. While it was out I contemplated recolouring it - I even had a very close match on the garage shelf. In the end I decided against it as a mint parcel shelf would look odd against the faded seat back and headrests and I kinda like the whole general patina of this Granada. We don’t want to make things unevenly nice next to not nice.

I outlined where to cut by climbing in the boot  thankfully I didn’t get stuck in there.

With the gubbins all fitted it’s looking factory. Pretty pleased. 

The Mk1 is different in the boot and can’t take this sort of seatbelt, so it’s going to inherit the lap belts that came out of this one. Not sure if Mk3 belts would fit, but I did read on a Granada Forum that e36 belts fit somehow. 

[rob88h]

Welcome to Essex

[rob88h]

[rob88h]

Look like a scene from CrimeWatch UK

[grogee]

  On 30/08/2024 at 06:37, rob88h said:

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Brentwood? 

[rob88h]

  On 02/09/2024 at 06:54, grogee said:

Brentwood? 

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Dunton. Brentwood (Warley) has been sold off and turned into flats.