Classic car values

[The_Equalizer]

On 02/04/2025 at 18:58, SiC said:

I've been watching this guy in the background recently. Very negative on the whole market but interesting to see actual sale prices versus the auction house estimates. Some stuff hits estimates but a lot is way off. Especially on old British.

 

I personally think this is great news as it puts old cars back in the hands of enthusiasts rather than speculative investments. Even if I have 3 cars that are getting progressively loosing value. 

I'd stumbled across the first video recently having been slightly drawn in by the somewhat garish "British cars are worthless". My impression was there were a few 'that did seem as bit cheap' cars and a few that we're slightly high too but it wasn't carnage. I will admit to having given up half way through having felt slightly suckered in by the title.  Appreciate this is just Geoff's style of video making mind you.

 

[R Lutz]

https://www.easyliveauction.com/catalogue/92fee72946947708deb6a3fde5bfbd99/0af8d24542e81eb9357e7ef448a6646f/the-moretonhampstead-motor-museum-dispersal-auction/?iFrameView=1&maxResults=120&currentPage=1

 

And

https://www.easyliveauction.com/catalogue/92fee72946947708deb6a3fde5bfbd99/1f1638c9faeb7c2641b7b1e9c67628d0/the-moretonhampstead-motor-museum-dispersal-auction/?iFrameView=1&maxResults=120&currentPage=1

Pick of the cars is this. It's not original but it'll be a far better way of ending your life compared to dignatas. 

https://www.easyliveauction.com/catalogue/lot/b9d1fb1aef9bf3532f2a46fa7481bbc5/1f1638c9faeb7c2641b7b1e9c67628d0/the-moretonhampstead-motor-museum-dispersal-auction-lot-416/?iFrameView=1

Cooper S with twin tanks and twin SUs. I'd have killed for this when I lived at home.

[The_Equalizer]

Caught the tail end of Hampson's auction via the web. I don't think I'm wrong in saying that prices are getting a bit a of a kick in the stones. In particular big engine stuff and things that went to that stratosphere in the last decade, but generally down across the board. Random selection of cheapness...

Tidy looking S3 Bentley with 34K on the clock - hammer of £12500.



Good looking, home market XK150 FHC - hammer of £26500!



Very straight looking Merc 190E - £2600.



Would love to know what it was like. Was anyone there?

[danthecapriman]

I’d imagine there’s some very unhappy investors at the moment if these are going down in value.

It’s like anything though, values can’t just keep going up. Sooner or later they have to hit a peak then plummet as nobody can afford it. 
With any luck mk1 Escort values will drop. Then I can buy myself a lovely Mexico and make it into a lovely 2 door 1100 base model and upset the investors even further!

[HMC]

Clearly a taste for 80s hot  hatches would be a wise place to but some dosh over the last decade. They say things you yearned after as a teen are where the appreciation is. For most of my colleagues that would be 80s/90s hot hatches. Wierdly for me that was stuff like a rover p4. Blame Practical Classics and Peter Simpson circa 1997.

https://classicsworld.co.uk/opinion/when-projects-go-full-circle/

Which are pretty much the same numerical value now (basically are now worth less in real terms) 

For someone who just wants to drive a nose heavy 50s whale, thats perfect!

[lesapandre]

The S3 is crazily cheap - the S3 is the V8 - so you get all the old school cool with a bit of go but without the later Shadow's hydraulic issues. I'm sure it was a 'no sale'.

The Merc 190 is fair enough - the internet is also awash with early 2000's performance Merc's at knock-down prices.

XK had a nice history - I doubt it sold for £26,000 but then maybe it did?

Well if you invested in old cars, Tesla, M&S shares or tech company stock - you're pretty cheesed off  - maybe someone invested in all of them.

[The_Equalizer]

12 hours ago, lesapandre said:

The S3 is crazily cheap - the S3 is the V8 - so you get all the old school cool with a bit of go but without the later Shadow's hydraulic issues. I'm sure it was a 'no sale'.

The Merc 190 is fair enough - the internet is also awash with early 2000's performance Merc's at knock-down prices.

XK had a nice history - I doubt it sold for £26,000 but then maybe it did?

Well if you invested in old cars, Tesla, M&S shares or tech company stock - you're pretty cheesed off  - maybe someone invested in all of them.

That Bentley S3 was listed as no reserve so it's a sale (you'll need to add commission (and the VAT bit), but still super cheap. However, this knocks spots off it. Admittedly very much an acquired taste and I would image it'll be a pig to sell, but £6750 for a Hooper Bodied Bentley S1:



My favourite was the green '67 E-Type roadster - partly for the green on green combo. Another home market Jag and a hammer of a whisker over £50K:



Would have to sort that number plate out in double time!

[R Lutz]

Slightly off topic, but I've been charged with selling a Morgan 3 wheeler (1930s, not current) and a well known, top-end auction house will only take it on at less than half its agreed insurance value. 

Ordinarily, I'd have done a piece in MOG mag about it as its current owner was a seconded Morgan chassis engineer and its from a famous background. But they never paid me for the last two articles I had in there last time. 

[lesapandre]

29 minutes ago, The_Equalizer said:

That Bentley S3 was listed as no reserve so it's a sale (you'll need to add commission (and the VAT bit), but still super cheap. However, this knocks spots of it. Admittedly very much an acquired taste and I would image it'll be a pig to sell, but £6750 for a Hooper Bodied Bentley S1:



My favourite was the green '67 E-Type roadster - partly for the green on green combo. Another home market Jag and a hammer of a whisker over £50K:



Would have to sort that number plate out in double time!

That's mad on the Bentleys. Back to 1990's prices.

The Hooper cars were always a little oddly shaped - but it's still a classic Bentley underneath in fairly nice condition - the owners must be disappointed - but it may of course be to close an estate hence no reserve and best price. Or they both had smokey engines.

Bargains though and will end up in the trade. The S3 is a valuable car.

A lot of folk must be nervously considering the value of what they own.

The auction houses don't like it either - less commission.

[The_Equalizer]

21 minutes ago, R Lutz said:

Slightly off topic, but I've been charged with selling a Morgan 3 wheeler (1930s, not current) and a well known, top-end auction house will only take it on at less than half its agreed insurance value. 

Ordinarily, I'd have done a piece in MOG mag about it as its current owner was a seconded Morgan chassis engineer and its from a famous background. But they never paid me for the last two articles I had in there last time. 

Perhaps you can agree a fee with the seller that would cover your costs of writing an article, then stick it in MOG mag? I'd suggest that would be a win-win.

[R Lutz]

1 minute ago, The_Equalizer said:

Perhaps you can agree a fee with the seller that would cover your costs of writing an article, then stick it in MOG mag? I'd suggest that would be a win-win.

For the owner, I'd write it up for free. I owe him so many favours. But on principle I cannot give MOG Mag copy for free. 

[The_Equalizer]

7 minutes ago, lesapandre said:

That's mad on the Bentleys. Back to 1990's prices.

The Hooper cars were always a little oddly shaped - but it's still a classic Bentley underneath in fairly nice condition - the owners must be disappointed - but it may of course be to close an estate hence no reserve and best price. Or they both had smokey engines.

Bargains though and will end up in the trade. The S3 is a valuable car.

A lot of folk must be nervously considering the value of what they own.

There were quite a number of cars that looked that had a whiff of estate sale, or some kind of job lot. If you're really interested here are the results for Hampson and this is the full catalogue. 

Yes, to values and it's a complete turn round since early Covid. I must say I'm rather excited as it puts lots of things back in range. I'm keeping a very close eye on the next few sales coming up. 

[R Lutz]

Do you think Mini values are starting to soften after a 35 year run?

 

[lesapandre]

Yes a lot came from a single collection - possibly an estate sale. The prices do read like the 1990's. Lots of interesting cars under £5000. But maybe the shine is going off the whole thing - maybe people prefer to spend their money on a better home or a nicer holiday - or just living.

[lesapandre]

2 minutes ago, R Lutz said:

Do you think Mini values are starting to soften after a 35 year run?

 

That first lot - the tarted Mini van made £5000. But generally yes they seem lowerish.

[R Lutz]

I do love a Mini, but they are shite. 

I note the price of the Land Rover Discovery TD5 in the sale. I have a very similar 2004/53 plate one to sell with full MOT, owned by my missus for 17 years, but with 183k miles on. Its a bit less than I was hoping for.

[Snipes]

I'm never getting over seeing a Manta GTE Coupe for sale recently for £30k. 

It was rust and rising values that killed my enthusiasm for them and that was 15/20 years ago. What do if you have no workshop at home, all the rentals are either £2k/month commercial premises or lock-ups that specifically exclude diy repairs?

[R Lutz]

Doing some research on classic car values and have read by one learned commentator that he estimates values are down 20-25% compared to 2023. 

[R Lutz]

18 minutes ago, Sir Snipes said:

I'm never getting over seeing a Manta GTE Coupe for sale recently for £30k. 

It was rust and rising values that killed my enthusiasm for them and that was 15/20 years ago. What do if you have no workshop at home,  all the rentals are either £2k/month commercial premises or lock-ups that specifically exclude diy repairs?

I've been writing on another forum tonight that from experience if a car has serious rot now, it's scrap. There is simply not the skills or enthusiasm to repair economically to an acceptable condition.

[Snipes]

https://www.carandclassic.com/car/C1870555

I remember the Manta club way back when happened across a car almost identical to this one and there was a genuine effort to get the seller a good price - I think it was an old boy with terminal illness or some such. It made £2200, when they routinely failed to top £1000.

[SiC]

 

https://auctions.hampsonauctions.com/auction/lot/lot-27---1965-daimler-250-v8/?lot=2309&so=0&st=&sto=0&au=30&ef=&et=&ic=False&sd=0&pp=96&pn=1&g=1

£2750 hammer price !!!!

[Spiny Norman]

2 hours ago, R Lutz said:

I've been writing on another forum tonight that from experience if a car has serious rot now, it's scrap. There is simply not the skills or enthusiasm to repair economically to an acceptable condition.

I always enjoy watching the Bangers & Cash spin off where they'll ship a £5k car off to some top notch restorer, spend £30k on it and it fetches £15k at auction.

 

 

[chadders]

9 hours ago, The_Equalizer said:

That Bentley S3 was listed as no reserve so it's a sale (you'll need to add commission (and the VAT bit), but still super cheap. However, this knocks spots of it. Admittedly very much an acquired taste and I would image it'll be a pig to sell, but £6750 for a Hooper Bodied Bentley S1:



My favourite was the green '67 E-Type roadster - partly for the green on green combo. Another home market Jag and a hammer of a whisker over £50K:



Would have to sort that number plate out in double time!

That Jag is fantastic.

I looked at a 15 year old XK 5.0 convertible at Xmas up for 18k but didn't pull the trigger. I'm now hoping that the E Type isn't an outlier and is indicative of a trend as my bucket list is a lot closer if it is.

[R Lutz]

Just now, Sir Snipes said:

https://www.carandclassic.com/car/C1870555

I remember the Manta club way back when happened across a car almost identical to this one and there was a genuine effort to get the seller a good price - I think it was an old boy with terminal illness or some such. It made £2200, when they routinely failed to top £1000.

I used my mother-in-law to sell a new, gas flowed and big valved cam-in-head cylinder head with an uprated head gasket to the Manta club some years ago and getting the same story that the values were always on the floor. Thats crazy money.  

[R Lutz]

Just now, chadders said:

That Jag is fantastic.

I looked at a 15 year old XK 5.0 convertible at Xmas up for 18k but didn't pull the trigger. I'm now hoping that the E Type isn't an outlier and is indicative of a trend as my bucket list is a lot closer if it is.

I think I'm safe in saying your bucket list is a lot closer. 

[EyesWeldedShut]

8 hours ago, R Lutz said:

Doing some research on classic car values and have read by one learned commentator that he estimates values are down 20-25% compared to 2023. 

My back of the envelope scratchings were similar based on ACA and Brightwells (so a very small sample) - not just the pure classics but a lot of borderline AutoShite era stuff seems to be slipping too. 
Probably a perfect storm of circumstances but I feel there's a lot of folks who 'invested' in these motors now trying to divest them in a bit of a hurry - that's pushing the no reserve entries up and revealing the true price of the cars?

[R Lutz]

Cars are ultimately a depreciating asset. They require constant maintenance and become less useful over time. In fact. they are of their time. Unlike gold. Now that's an investment. 

Note: I have no gold. Not an ounce in any form. 

Edited May 5 by R Lutz
To highlight my lack of wealth.

[The_Equalizer]

On 05/05/2025 at 06:35, chadders said:

That Jag is fantastic.

I looked at a 15 year old XK 5.0 convertible at Xmas up for 18k but didn't pull the trigger. I'm now hoping that the E Type isn't an outlier and is indicative of a trend as my bucket list is a lot closer if it is.

Either would be fantastic. I remember the first XK I saw in 2006. Ice blue coupe just round the corner from where I was living and deliberately walked slowly past it each time. 

I'm pretty sure there's loads that will be in striking distance now, if not shortly. I think this E-Type (S1 coupe for which sold for £39200 all in at Bonhams) made me realise that things were seriously on the slide. It reappeared six months later on Collecting Cars after a bit of titivation and sold for £60K so it looks like someone did okay out of it.



I appreciate this stuff in in no way AS related, but it does seem across the board. 

I'll try and keep to more 'real world' stuff in future posts!

[The_Equalizer]

1 hour ago, EyesWeldedShut said:

My back of the envelope scratchings were similar based on ACA and Brightwells (so a very small sample) - not just the pure classics but a lot of borderline AutoShite era stuff seems to be slipping too. 
Probably a perfect storm of circumstances but I feel there's a lot of folks who 'invested' in these motors now trying to divest them in a bit of a hurry - that's pushing the no reserve entries up and revealing the true price of the cars?

Agreed. Here are the results from SWVA. Proper AS stuff and, to my eyes, cheap. From what I can see SWVA auction cars that are 'there for a reason' i.e. there's things obviously wrong with them judging by the MoT history. That said, the good cars such as the 1984 Daimler and 1963 Rover P4 were nicely over estimate.

Don't suppose anyone did go to SWVA? It's very hard to judge cars over the internet.

 

[Cavcraft]

Meanwhile,  the world of motorbikes (and mopeds) is still full of people telling you Fizzys are dropping in value/nobody wants them anymore/you can buy an R1 and three houses for the same price/all the  original owners are too old to ride anymore/yadda yadda yadda

Iconic Auctioneers | 1974 Yamaha FS1-E 49cc-Sold

This has made a very decent amount too, considering it's an import...

Iconic Auctioneers | 1977 Yamaha RD50 2L5 49cc-Sold

Will have to get mine back on the road.