Rover 827 update.... Rustival or Bust, Radiator saga....Forester prep so no Rover action sadly!

[Marina door handles]

Well no news on the wheel arch yet, I may have to get creative..

With festivities out of the way I thought I would get back on the Rover for a bit more fettling and found this on the brand new sill....

 

Look at that rust, Looks like this car needs a new sill, hang on a mo! Not sure what is going on here but I have now started scraping the primer back off and cleaning the metal below, it seams like there was something on or in the paint that was on the new sill (I only cleaned off the areas I was going to weld, there is probably a lesson there!).  So the plan is to bring the entire out side of the sill back to bare metal and then red oxide,  then primer - then make sure nothing is bleeding through, then paint it.

I have to admit I am not very convinced  of the quality of the sills supplied by the Rover 800 club, they seem thin just were you need to weld them, supposedly they are 1.2mm thick steel, I suspect their micrometer was broken when measured!  I suspect its down to less than 0.8mm in a lot of places. Problem is there isn't another source for these  so I shouldn't complain too much...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[somewhatfoolish]

On 12/7/2022 at 5:18 PM, grogee said:

Can't get a Maestro arch either. But I did find a couple of sills made to order. When enquiring about the Maestro arch they implied they might be able to do a Montego arch. NB: 14 week lead time...

https://www.classiccarpartsandpanels.co.uk/

Aren't they basically the same arch?

[grogee]

22 minutes ago, somewhatfoolish said:

Aren't they basically the same arch?

Not at the rear

[somewhatfoolish]

I never noticed that before; why the hell did BL do that? Very nearly the same, but different enough to infuriate shiters 40 years afterwards.

[grogee]

13 minutes ago, somewhatfoolish said:

I never noticed that before; why the hell did BL do that? Very nearly the same, but different enough to infuriate shiters 40 years afterwards.

I know. Same for plastic bumper v metal bumper models, different wings.

Metro Turbo had specific front wings different to every other Metro.

But BL was massively successful*, so what do we know?

[Marina door handles]

Another small update I have now scrapped back all the paint, cleaned the bare metal and gone a bit mad with kurust/genolite stuff.

The first layer of primer (red oxide) has also gone on but didn't get any pics. I just hope this does the trick...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[stuboy]

great work

[catsinthewelder]

You're doing a fantastic job, fancy a 200 to go with it?

[Motown]

9 hours ago, catsinthewelder said:

You're doing a fantastic job, fancy a 200 to go with it?

Did you say 200? Bubble shape or R8  

[Motown]

Hello there!

Ive owned a total of eight 827s three 820s and saved and restored countless others i truely wish you all the best with this and follow with interest... My trusty Mk1 827 Fastback which ive had for a number of years was recently sold to a member of this site. I have owned mostly Mk1s (XX) but as yours is a MK2 (R17) with the Honda lump the following tips should apply and be helpful if you choose to keep the car long term.

• Wheel arches fuel filler pipes and sills are available from the 800 club (Thats the Rover 800 club not the Rover 800 Owners Club)
• Fuel filler pipes are a well documented weak spot on both Mk1 and Mk2 road dirt and other shite builds up and gets trapped behind them and they rot out. Often you dont realise until its time to fill up with petrol and it leaks all over the forecourt and dumps rust in your tank killing your pump.
• Brakes are notoriously hard to bleed due to air getting trapped in the modulator and the somewhat awkward shape of the calipers especially the rears air pockets often develop in the calipers themselves. If the calipers are shot and you struggle to find new ones the rears are identical to MGF calipers  and are more widely available than 800 ones.
• Alot of parts or either very rare and pricey or NLA but there are a few alternatives such as the Honda Legend Rover 600 and previously mentioned MGF i even went as far as to import spares from America.
• The Mk2 is plagued with fusebox issues be sure to check it then check it again just to be sure the solder breaks down with age and can cause a whole host of issues from flickering lights to a completely dead unresponsive car thankfully the fusebox isnt expensive to get resoldered.
• Electric windows try and use these as much as possible or they will cease due to lack of use the switch pack/instrument panel in the drivers door may also fail meaning they will be completely inoperable again this is down to the solder/contacts breaking down thankfully they are easily fixable if you can solder.
• Rover 800 wheel nuts are notoriously SHITE and hard to find new change all of them immediately for somthing more hardy the Ford looking aftermarket ones are good. It will save you a tonne of nightmares when changing wheels/tyres at a later date I speak from exprience as ive lost count how many times ive had to drill them out.
• Never throw any relays or electricals away if broken again the most basic of parts are NLA and it makes more sense to have them repaired than replaced. I once threw away a blown headlight relay which turned out to be a very rare part it took 5 months of searching and a £200 cheque to a chap in America before i managed to find a replacement.
• Rear light gaskets break down allowing water or dampness into the boot and rear seats. purchase some 6mm neoprene off ebay and cut to size/shape using the old gaskets as a template this should solve the issue. 

 Dont let any of this put you off the cars are very reliable very comfy and still fairly quick by modern standards. As for the C27A Honda Lump you could riddle it with machine gun fire and drive it through Rufford Ford and it would still work it will easily reach 200k with very little attention.

il search my loft to see if i have a brake master cylinder for you if you still need one. Feel free to drop me a message if you need help with anything

[Marina door handles]

Thanks Motown,  lots of info to take in there. I will contact the 800 club directly about wheel arches as there is nothing on their parts page. I do hope if the do arches they are better quality than the sills.  

I think I am okay for a master cylinder, I will be following all the advice when it comes to bleeding the brakes! 

[Marina door handles]

19 hours ago, catsinthewelder said:

You're doing a fantastic job, fancy a 200 to go with it?

Thanks but erm no thanks! 

[Motown]

6 hours ago, Marina door handles said:

Thanks Motown,  lots of info to take in there. I will contact the 800 club directly about wheel arches as there is nothing on their parts page. I do hope if the do arches they are better quality than the sills.  

I think I am okay for a master cylinder, I will be following all the advice when it comes to bleeding the brakes! 

Yeah sorry to bombard you all stuff thats worth knowing though  

[Marina door handles]

February update time, I am clearly not rushing this....  The sill has now been cleaned back and is re primer'ed and appears much happier, this took a couple of attempts as the low temps in the garage caused one painting session to go wrong possibly not helped by switching to a different brand of primer half way through.  So I changed back to the original brand and cracked out the hair drier to pre warm the can and sill panel. Success I think.

With that starting to look half decent I moved on to the inner wheel arch as it was  crusty. I cannot get hold of a replacement wheel arch let alone and inner part so had to get creative.

And the inner...

Choppy choppy time...

New inner section, made up folded cut and formed, not the sexiest looking thing but it fits. 

Then the outer which I had to do in sections. Not helped by blowing a hole in part of it..... I had some how flicked the welder onto its 2nd power level which is a bit too much for thin body work. 

Hole filled and cleaned up...

And inner lip welded in place, followed by some primer just to keep things protected...

Its definitely going to need a bit of filler to look okay, I hate filler! I am getting dangerously close to having a car with MOT safe metal work, its just everything else that may let it down.......  Oh and I tried Motowns suggestion of Ford wheelnuts, it works they even look the part, cheers!

 

 

[2flags]

You are doing a fantastic job on this car. It's great to see them being saved.

[Marina door handles]

Well Toss Weasels I have found a thing, not a good thing. Whilst working further up in the wheel arch I decided it would be advisable to cover the fuel filler pipes (because of the risk of stray hot metal burning through the pipes/rubber). After faffing about I discovered this...

It appears that the breather has separated away (rusted away) from the main filler pipe, see the little red circle. Considering how many bits appear to be NLA on these cars this is probably going to be a bit of a challenge. Fortunately this looks like a fairly simple bit of plumbing, I wonder if I can find alternative part to fit?

 

 

 

[St.Jude]

4 minutes ago, Marina door handles said:

Well Toss Weasels I have found a thing, not a good thing. Whilst working further up in the wheel arch I decided it would be advisable to cover the fuel filler pipes (because of the risk of stray hot metal burning through the pipes/rubber). After faffing about I discovered this...

It appears that the breather has separated away (rusted away) from the main filler pipe, see the little red circle. Considering how many bits appear to be NLA on these cars this is probably going to be a bit of a challenge. Fortunately this looks like a fairly simple bit of plumbing, I wonder if I can find alternative part to fit?

 

 

 

Someone on the Rover 800 Faceache group has a new one of these for sale. It was posted about 2 days ago so if you have a look at the recent posts you'll find it.

You don't happen to have an ignition coil for an 827 btw do you? lol

[Marina door handles]

2 minutes ago, St.Jude said:

Someone on the Rover 800 Faceache group has a new one of these for sale. It was posted about 2 days ago so if you have a look at the recent posts you'll find it.

You don't happen to have an ignition coil for an 827 btw do you? lol

Thanks for the heads up, I will take a look at facebook....

Sadly I don't have a spare ignition coil.

[Marina door handles]

Just checked face ache, the filler seems to be available at a price..... 

 

 

 

....... £250! Fuck sake really? I had a look at an MGF one on Rimmer's and that was a mere £70 I shall have to do some thinking....

This is a reconstruction of me thinking....

[St.Jude]

11 minutes ago, Marina door handles said:

Sadly I don't have a spare ignition coil.

Boo!

7 minutes ago, Marina door handles said:

Just checked face ache, the filler seems to be available at a price..... 

 

 

 

....... £250! Fuck sake really? I had a look at a MGF one on  Rimmers and that was a mere £70 I shall have to do some thinking....

This is a reconstruction of me thinking....

the best thing about them is that they all rot. The one on Faceache is £220 apparently. 

Pity it’s not broken lower down as a bit of rubber would sort it. But it looks fucked so yeah it’ll be a new one, or hopefully get a fairly good one from a breaker.

[Marina door handles]

To be honest if this was the only thing keeping the car off the road it would be a no brainer but its going to need new discs and pads all round, new tyres all round, probably some suspension bits drop links, bushes, ball joints and then it really needs a new windscreen.... No doubt I will find more and that's just to get it MOT'ed.  And I have been told I am at risk of redundancy (I work for Cazoo) so my wallet has gone on strike! 

I might try and protect the area as best as possible and carry on with the body repairs for the mo, just add it to the list of issues......

 

[motorpunk]

Oh man, what an ungrateful bastard heap of a car. Good luck with the redundancy risk. 

[bub2006]

Back in 2009 I had a 414SLI and the reg ended in NWE too.  I think it was L186 NWE and it was the same colour as your 827 too. Strange how pictures can stir up memories!

[Marina door handles]

Small update, much faffage not much progress. I have been test fitting trim parts and I did finish the welding higher up in the arch...

And then I started looking at the main section of wheel arch I may have picked a rusty  scab and decided I would have a proper look at replacing the whole arch...  Also a little while ago I purchased a do it your self wheel arch kit by mistake (how hard could this be?). Firstly I attempted to make a cad version of the wheel arch. This didn't go fantastically well. So I decided to offer up the repair kit up...

I guess I may be able to make this work but also this might just end up as one terrible mess. I think I need to get more clamps so I can force it to follow the shape. If I manage to make a good copy of the old  wheel arch I will cut the old one out and weld in the new but I am not convinced I will get to that stage, not with this bendy kit thing anyway! 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[St.Jude]

1 hour ago, Marina door handles said:

Small update, much faffage not much progress. I have been test fitting trim parts and I did finish the welding higher up in the arch...

And then I started looking at the main section of wheel arch I may have picked a rusty  scab and decided I would have a proper look at replacing the whole arch...  Also a little while ago I purchased a do it your self wheel arch kit by mistake (how hard could this be?). Firstly I attempted to make a cad version of the wheel arch. This didn't go fantastically well. So I decided to offer up the repair kit up...

I guess I may be able to make this work but also this might just end up as one terrible mess. I think I need to get more clamps so I can force it to follow the shape. If I manage to make a good copy of the old  wheel arch I will cut the old one out and weld in the new but I am not convinced I will get to that stage, not with this bendy kit thing anyway! 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I’d be tempted to make the arch off the car. Using CAD (wallpaper lining, in my opinion, is the best medium for this), cut one piece as an arch top, so the slanty bit from the outer edge of it that goes to join the body, then a thinner strip to act as the lip under the arch. If this makes sense?

Thats how I built the inner tub of my RAV4. I think it’d be easier to that than faffing with loads of tiny strips of steel.

[Marina door handles]

5 minutes ago, St.Jude said:

I’d be tempted to make the arch off the car. Using CAD (wallpaper lining, in my opinion, is the best medium for this), cut one piece as an arch top, so the slanty bit from the outer edge of it that goes to join the body, then a thinner strip to act as the lip under the arch. If this makes sense?

Thats how I built the inner tub of my RAV4. I think it’d be easier to that than faffing with loads of tiny strips of steel.

Not a bad shout,  the more I look at the kit thing and its little thin strips the more I think its a crap idea! 

[St.Jude]

3 minutes ago, Marina door handles said:

Not a bad shout,  the more I look at the kit thing and its little thin strips the more I think its a crap idea! 

You’d make a good copy of the arch profile with lining paper, as it’s thicker than paper but bends more easily than cardboard. Then do it on the bench (tacking it) then you’ll have a good solid arch with less welds to grind down.

[grogee]

@Marina door handles I'm sorry to hear about the threat of redundancy, it's a horrible thing to have hanging over you. I remember a previous employer once texting me to ask if I was buying a house (I was) and then ghosting me when I asked why he wanted to know. Shortly afterwards I was 'let go'. 

Fortunately found an alternative job accidentally while looking for temp work and never looked back. 

I hope you manage to find something more secure so you can keep feeding your Rover habit.

[Marina door handles]

Still no news on the Redundancy situation so whilst off shift I have been thinking about job hunting but mostly back in the garage under the Rover....  I have been eye balling the wheel arch and have decided that the best course of action was to carefully remove the lip and cut away the rotten remains of the inner arch. From there I can fab up a new inner and work out how much out outer arch really needs replacing.

Probably not the best view but hopefully you can see what I am trying to achieve? Or maybe not... 

To get better access I figured I would "just remove" the near side suspension, hah hah several hours later and its only partially off even now. Basically the main retaining nut/bolt for the main arm is so corroded its just a blob of corroded crap at each end. I could weld a nut on the bolt end but I cannot get at the nut as the fuel tank is in the way, I cant drop the fuel tank  because of the cunning way I have supported the weight of the car using  ramps and a 3 ton axle stand (I cannot risk the inner jack points as they are crumbly and are next on the repair list.

Anyway, I pulled out the shock, removed the brake caliper and disc, then dropped the arm as far out the way as I could. This is annoying as the arm really needs re bushing, so I will have to get it off, just not right.  On the suspension front I have found the shock absorber is knackered , no surprise there and the anti roll bar drop links don't look too clever so they have all gone onto my MOT list. 

All the space..

Before I tackled the suspension I made a thing.....  I decided to try and fab up a section of wheel arch. 

After much offering up, prodding and poking and thinking and procrastinating...

I decided I didn't like it very much and decided on a different approach, yes I am going to set fire to the car.....

Okay maybe not but it has crossed my mind.  I also did eventually make some wheel arch progress, spot the difference...

The pictures are the wrong way round, but in the second pic there is some green sharpy, ie the target areas and in picture one some new metal welded in and ground back, I just need to keep plugging away. 

Apologies for such a long rambling thread but I find it helps motivate myself when I can look back at what I have done, if it helps spur anyone else all the better! 

 

[Marina door handles]

Yet more bzzzzzzzz, rizzzzzzzzzzzzzzz, snip snip, bang, bank, clonk Yyy-Ouch! And employment update......

Actual work first, I am no longer at risk of redundancy wooot! Until the next round... 

Back to more important things the wheel arch repairs have really progressed. I have completed the inner arch repairs, what a ballache that was, welding in what is still a confined space. But firstly I finished the outer arch (apart from the lip, which I am leaving till last -ish).

 

 

 

You get the idea! Then onto the inner.  With the new metal work I haven't/couldn't copy what Rover have done, the original inner folds around about 180degrees and is spot welded to the lip of the outer. Its a lovely rust trap and it was much more straight forward to seem weld the the new sections of inner to the outer wing above the lip. 

Sorry rather crap pictures but there you go some progress. I still haven't decided what I am doing about the fuel filler, I am kicking that issue down the road! 

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