Rover 827 update.... Rustival or Bust, Radiator saga....Bust most likely!

[R Lutz]

Former Rover 800 salesman here. Excellent work on the 827 - they are a car I genuinely love. However, the steel was always atrociously thin. The people who converted them into limos, hearses and the like used to say the 800 had the thinnest metal in the game, with SAAB 9000 having the thickest (as you'd expect). Ford was surprisingly good too. 

Regarding the brakes, the workshop used to dread doing brake work on them in case they 'lost the pedal'. In which case the car had to spend the night on the ramps with a bleed nipple open or something to let it bleed using gravity. I cannot recall exactly what the fix was. But I know they were a pain as they were so inconsistent. 

[Marina door handles]

Well bollocks, I won the auction at a quite low £13.60 plus £20 postage - new these things are over £200 and the cheeky fucker canceled my order......

[St.Jude]

12 minutes ago, Marina door handles said:

Well bollocks, I won the auction at a quite low £13.60 plus £20 postage - new these things are over £200 and the cheeky fucker canceled my order......

Properly cuntish behaviour that.

If you have a price set a reserve or sell it for the price you want.

[Marina door handles]

Meh just re read the add, its a fake auction "bid and I will send you a wheel nut!" fuck sake, that will teach me to got over excited before I have woken up properly, read the damned advert!!!

Might report it anyway as its not a legit way to advertise your wares..... 

[Marina door handles]

3 hours ago, R Lutz said:

Former Rover 800 salesman here. Excellent work on the 827 - they are a car I genuinely love. However, the steel was always atrociously thin. The people who converted them into limos, hearses and the like used to say the 800 had the thinnest metal in the game, with SAAB 9000 having the thickest (as you'd expect). Ford was surprisingly good too. 

Regarding the brakes, the workshop used to dread doing brake work on them in case they 'lost the pedal'. In which case the car had to spend the night on the ramps with a bleed nipple open or something to let it bleed using gravity. I cannot recall exactly what the fix was. But I know they were a pain as they were so inconsistent. 

Yep the steel is thin but that's okay as the Rover 800 club sills which are allegedly 1.2mm thick are also suspiciously thin (more like 0.8 or less)  so everything matches up in a difficult hole blowy way!  As for the brakes I haven't got around to trying my new master cylinder on the car yet, it has fresh air brakes currently.

[Marina door handles]

Casual update....

Drivers side sill is now back in primer..

And I have been having fun setting fire to and hammering at the trailing arm threaded end trying to straighten it (wont really straighten) and then cleaning the thread with a die...

In other news I have been looking at the rear anti roll bar drop links, these are NLA but I think I have found a BMW part which may work as a substitute...

And more importantly I have found this on amazon of all places which when combined with some appropriate hoses may well replace the original complicated filler pipe. I need to do some serious measuring.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Spectra-Premium-FN724-Fuel-Filler/dp/B007RW19YA/ref=sr_1_9?adgrpid=131703315011&hvadid=592973443387&hvdev=c&hvlocphy=9046462&hvnetw=g&hvqmt=b&hvrand=8984602551653398436&hvtargid=kwd-496359036632&hydadcr=22581_2214445&keywords=universal+fuel+filler+neck&qid=1695489249&sr=8-9

So progress of sorts....

 

 

[Marina door handles]

I have been slapping more layers of paint on this, now at the stone chip phase but its a tad boring. In the mean time I have been rifling through the garage and then noticed how grotty some of the bits of my MG are looking so decided on a slight spring clean....

Starting with the center console which is thick with dust....

Some inappropriate cleaner and a rag later....

Then onto the dash itself kinda forget to get a before picture so this is after obvs..... I know its not great but its better than it was honest!

Then I spotted something, I thought it was just the body of the car that was rusty, the fun part of having a metal dash is that can rust too!

Admittedly its just surface  and its only the passenger that gets to look at it but I might have to do something about it..... Maybe....

Anyway time for another layer of stone chip on the Rover.....

 

[motorpunk]

On 9/23/2023 at 1:51 PM, R Lutz said:

Former Rover 800 salesman here. Excellent work on the 827 - they are a car I genuinely love. However, the steel was always atrociously thin. The people who converted them into limos, hearses and the like used to say the 800 had the thinnest metal in the game, with SAAB 9000 having the thickest (as you'd expect). Ford was surprisingly good too. 

Regarding the brakes, the workshop used to dread doing brake work on them in case they 'lost the pedal'. In which case the car had to spend the night on the ramps with a bleed nipple open or something to let it bleed using gravity. I cannot recall exactly what the fix was. But I know they were a pain as they were so inconsistent. 

I wrote a chapter on the Rover 800 in this book - https://www.amazon.co.uk/Confessions-quality-control-balls-ups-factories/dp/1532719795

I loved them but they were shit, bodged together by people who hated their lives, it seemed.

820 Coupe for me, please. 

[R Lutz]

2 hours ago, motorpunk said:

I wrote a chapter on the Rover 800 in this book - https://www.amazon.co.uk/Confessions-quality-control-balls-ups-factories/dp/1532719795

I loved them but they were shit, bodged together by people who hated their lives, it seemed.

820 Coupe for me, please. 

I bought that years and years ago on the recommendation of somebody you asked to write for you. 

[St.Jude]

2 hours ago, motorpunk said:

I wrote a chapter on the Rover 800 in this book - https://www.amazon.co.uk/Confessions-quality-control-balls-ups-factories/dp/1532719795

I loved them but they were shit, bodged together by people who hated their lives, it seemed.

820 Coupe for me, please. 

You might be happy to know that the mentality you've mentioned here is alive and well in Solihull. According to my mate anyway who works there.

[Marina door handles]

Back to the Rover (I have stopped playing with bits of the MG).  I have nearly finished painting on the drivers side sill, yet again waiting for paint to arrive through the post..

So whilst I wait for paint, I decided to have a proper look at the fuel filler. It was a little fiddly to extract but in this case the pictures really tell the story.....

Eww! Just disconnect the rest of the plumbing...

Then properly inspect the rusty squid (as my better half described  it)....

Its actually a rare cut away model!

 

[Marina door handles]

But then it gets worse, unfortunately the mud trapped against the back of the filler hadn't only caused the pipe work to rust through but also the strut tower.....

This was all completely hidden behind the fuel filler

The hole that isn't circled is the fuel filler hole! Its all a bit awkward to  get at and access from the inside is nearly impossible, great, I really love this sort of thing.....   🤪

The devil on my shoulder keeps mentioning Copart and car take back......

Time to stop for coffee, a couple of ginger nuts and some Motorbike racing on TV. 

[grogee]

Aw balls. That's a bummer. Absolutely paranoid about taking the filler off my Maestro now, christ knows what's hiding around there. 

I mean I've got no symptoms that anything is wrong but it's steel and also NLA just like most other Maestro bits. I think I'll end up cobbling something together with aluminium pipe and various off-the-shelf hose bends. 

[mercedade]

17 hours ago, Marina door handles said:

But then it gets worse, unfortunately the mud trapped against the back of the filler hadn't only caused the pipe work to rust through but also the strut tower.....

This was all completely hidden behind the fuel filler

The hole that isn't circled is the fuel filler hole! Its all a bit awkward to  get at and access from the inside is nearly impossible, great, I really love this sort of thing.....   🤪

The devil on my shoulder keeps mentioning Copart and car take back......

Time to stop for coffee, a couple of ginger nuts and some Motorbike racing on TV. 

My first Vitesse went in exactly the same place, for the same reason (they all do).

In a nice bit of circularity :

17 hours ago, grogee said:

Aw balls. That's a bummer. Absolutely paranoid about taking the filler off my Maestro now, christ knows what's hiding around there. 

I mean I've got no symptoms that anything is wrong but it's steel and also NLA just like most other Maestro bits. I think I'll end up cobbling something together with aluminium pipe and various off-the-shelf hose bends. 

my rotten 800 neck was replaced with a slightly-too-short Maestro neck, using a bit of hose to fill the gap

[St.Jude]

Reminds me of my RAV4. I’ve nothing but sympathy for you with this - but on the bright side your Rover starts at least 😂😂

[grogee]

19 hours ago, Marina door handles said:

Back to the Rover (I have stopped playing with bits of the MG).  I have nearly finished painting on the drivers side sill, yet again waiting for paint to arrive through the post..

So whilst I wait for paint, I decided to have a proper look at the fuel filler. It was a little fiddly to extract but in this case the pictures really tell the story.....

Eww! Just disconnect the rest of the plumbing...

Then properly inspect the rusty squid (as my better half described  it)....

Its actually a rare cut away model!

 

Have you seen this? Fabricated filler necks, currently being auctioned. Not silly money (yet) 

 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/235221429290?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-127632-2357-0&ssspo=ce_TudnrTZ2&sssrc=4429486&ssuid=2Z40wC2iSsq&var=&widget_ver=artemis&media=COPY

 

EDIT: I re-read the advert:

"brand new £210 each delivered mainland uk can deliver worldwide many thanks pls watsapp 07404789229 pls dnt bid u will only get a wheel nut  many thanks" 

[Marina door handles]

1 minute ago, grogee said:

Have you seen this? Fabricated filler necks, currently being auctioned. Not silly money (yet) 

 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/235221429290?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-127632-2357-0&ssspo=ce_TudnrTZ2&sssrc=4429486&ssuid=2Z40wC2iSsq&var=&widget_ver=artemis&media=COPY

Seen that at stupid O'clock in the morning - put a bid in like a muppet, didnt read the add properly (its on page 3!). Its probably a fair price but I dislike the whole abusing ebay fake auction thing.  If the fuel filler was the only thing keeping the car from passing an MOT  than £230 ish (inc postage) doesn't seem too bad but I suspect it will be the need a raft of shiny new bits,  I reckon I can make up a suitable filler system for less with some off the shelf parts............... Maybe....

[grogee]

55 minutes ago, Marina door handles said:

Seen that at stupid O'clock in the morning - put a bid in like a muppet, didnt read the add properly (its on page 3!). Its probably a fair price but I dislike the whole abusing ebay fake auction thing.  If the fuel filler was the only thing keeping the car from passing an MOT  than £230 ish (inc postage) doesn't seem too bad but I suspect it will be the need a raft of shiny new bits,  I reckon I can make up a suitable filler system for less with some off the shelf parts............... Maybe....

Yeah you're probably right. I've got more time than money so I wouldn't get the 'benefit' of it fitting straight away. In your position (comfortable with welding) it should be do-able to cobble something together. 

Saying that, there have been many occasions where I've spent hours/days trying to make the cheap solution work, only to give in and splash out on the proper part. 

[mercedade]

Guy on the 800 forum made his own out of marine piping. Worth a look (unless Photofucket has nuked another thread)

[Marina door handles]

I have seen that, that rather helped me decide I could sort something out my self!

Its been a day of poking measuring and procrastinating, not helped by the fact that my Subaru gets MOT'ed tomorrow and I am trying to second guess what its going to fail on and which end of the garage I will need to get it in to! 

Anyway back to Rover prodding.......  The strut top repairs on the Rover are awkward as there is a bracket welded over the top of the rear struts which the seat belt reel is bolted too.  I think for best access I need to remove the brackety thing which means drilling out all the spot welds..

Picture with pointless red circle around the bracket...

Brackety thing without seat belt.....

You can see the rust hole and also why I will need to un stitch the top for good access. Maybe tomorrow I will get the spot weld drill bits out and use this as a distraction from worrying about the MOT ....

Regarding the fuel filler I thing I am going to use an early  Land Rover 90 filler neck as its short and has a vent line..

Probably make up the rest in hose...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Marina door handles]

This morning I have been doing what I should have cracked on with yesterday...

Bracket removal time, carefully mark up were it should go back and then get the spot weld drill bit out.

Then get the long drill bit out to reach the awkward spot welds...

Then dug a couple of persuaders out and attacked it and off it came...

Ta dah no bracket and easy access to the rust hole.

Been a bit busy with house stuff this afternoon so didn't get any further. I did spot something I hadn't realised, just like Subaru's the Rover routes its brake lines inside the body of the car.

So its virtually ready to Rally! It also means that the main stretch of both brake pipes front to rear is not rusty and wont need replacing! Tiny silver linings and all that.........

Thanks for reading.

 

 

[Marina door handles]

Update time on the Rover and the Subaru.

Firstly MOT fun with the Scoob, it failed on a couple of items that genuinely surprised me (to be honest apart from checking the lights and tyres I hadn't been very thorough). Firstly a brake fluid leak from the drivers side front caliper, errr yikes! Turns out it was from the nipple and was a micro leak, no loss of pedal but it was letting out just enough fluid to leave a damp area on the caliper.

I cleaned the caliper and carefully nipped it up, then utterly hammered the brake pedal, even left footed brake stomped it for good measure....No more fluid lost all good.

The second fail was the passenger side wheel bearing which was loose or maybe worn.. Odd these were only changed 2 years ago and the mileage has been pretty low and they were FAGs ?

At this point I had run out of car faffing time and I was due back on shift at work...  ordered a new wheel bearing and parked it for the time being.

So five days later, back off work (I work an odd shift pattern, longish days but blocks of 4 or 5 days off) and back on the Subaru...

Any way I pulled wheel off and checked the hub and found a loose hub nut!

Sorry couldn't resist ,not that kind! This kind....

Yep your eyes do not deceive they were staked but maybe not staked hard enough and its vibrated loose, all I needed to undo it was the socket for minimal leverage not even a ratchet required (these are supposed to done up to 137lb/ft!). So the fix was to do it back up and re stake it with maximum prejudice, which was good as the new bearing was still in the post.....

So I sent it back to the tester.... Pass, Woo hoo!

So that's 2 out of my 5 cars actually on the road....

Back to the Rover fettling

I am still focused on the rust hidden at the the top of the rear strut tower. I attacked it with a variety of angry wire brushes

Then decided that I needed to access to under the tower and to do that I would need to cut it off, erk.... So out with the spot weld drill bit and a slitting disc for the grinder...

Going for it, getting a bit mediaeval 

Off! Now you can see (thanks to a slightly blurry picture) why I needed to do that.....

Yeah not much progress but I now have a clear plan, I will be welding in new metal on the inner wing (now I have access), then plating the strut top that I cut off (the good metal left is surprisingly thick possibly 2and a bit mill) and then weld that back on easy! And all because the fuel filler is a mud trap, nice.

That's all for the mo......

 

[Marina door handles]

Small update...

The strut top is now plated up, the holes are no more...

Has the heat distorted it too much to be welded back on?

Well no it should fit might need a bit of persuading but seems okay..

The next thing to try and tackle is were the inner wheel arch around the fuel filler hole has crumbled to dust, the big issue is that its such an odd shape or at least it was....

I have been trying to cad it but apart from making a card board mess I am not getting very far...

The thing is its not exactly structural, for starters its got the filler hole in it so its just a bigger hole than it should be! The real issue is its supposed to keep mud, water, salt etc out of the inner wheel arch.  I am starting to think I might make the surrounding area strong and then try and create something in glass fiber to keep the mud out? Not sure will mull it over....

 

That's all for now!

[R Lutz]

You have my admiration just for tackling it, let along the repair.

[RoadworkUK]

This has made me very nervous indeed about the 800 quietly slumbering away in my garage on SORN. At least I think, think, that the garage is watertight...

You're doing the Lord's work on yours. Wow.

[Marina door handles]

9 hours ago, RoadworkUK said:

This has made me very nervous indeed about the 800 quietly slumbering away in my garage on SORN. At least I think, think, that the garage is watertight...

You're doing the Lord's work on yours. Wow.

Don't be nervous  - just remember to not look too closely under the NSR wheel arch and definitely do not look at the fuel filler, it will probably be fine! 

[Marina door handles]

Its Rover time.... 

Predictably I am still on the body repairs and yes its that inner arch area behind the fuel filler. I did consider other ways of sealing the area but I decided that my best option was to stick with metal, better the devil you know well..

I decided to break it down as much as possible, templated and then made up a simple top section in steel and work  from there.

Pictured below is the top arched section  in steel and a card template of the awkward inner section.

I then followed that up by making a rough inner section and marked up some holes to match the outer filler, so I could screw it in place.

Before the inner section looked rather hollow...

After

Once I was reasonably happy with the shape of it the next step was to weld the two sections together...

Yep that looks suitably odd, then another trial fit....

Not too bad, at this point I re fitted the top of the strut to see how that lined up...

Hmmm will need some finessing! Back to the inner part, it definitely has some issues, quite obviously a nice big gap that has been conveniently high lighted by a red circle... 

So I cut out a little triangle infill bit and welded that in.

And after a bit more finessing (hammering and trimming in reality), re fitted it again..

That's a bit more like it. 

Hopefully in the next instalment I will have received a new hole cutter (through the post) so I can cut a neat 60mm fuel filler hole in this part, then I will be in a position to weld this weird looking panel in place.

Thanks for reading....

 

[grogee]

22 hours ago, Marina door handles said:

Its Rover time.... 

Predictably I am still on the body repairs and yes its that inner arch area behind the fuel filler. I did consider other ways of sealing the area but I decided that my best option was to stick with metal, better the devil you know well..

I decided to break it down as much as possible, templated and then made up a simple top section in steel and work  from there.

Pictured below is the top arched section  in steel and a card template of the awkward inner section.

I then followed that up by making a rough inner section and marked up some holes to match the outer filler, so I could screw it in place.

Before the inner section looked rather hollow...

After

Once I was reasonably happy with the shape of it the next step was to weld the two sections together...

Yep that looks suitably odd, then another trial fit....

Not too bad, at this point I re fitted the top of the strut to see how that lined up...

Hmmm will need some finessing! Back to the inner part, it definitely has some issues, quite obviously a nice big gap that has been conveniently high lighted by a red circle... 

So I cut out a little triangle infill bit and welded that in.

And after a bit more finessing (hammering and trimming in reality), re fitted it again..

That's a bit more like it. 

Hopefully in the next instalment I will have received a new hole cutter (through the post) so I can cut a neat 60mm fuel filler hole in this part, then I will be in a position to weld this weird looking panel in place.

Thanks for reading....

 

Heroic welding there. This thing will be mega when you've finished. Top skills

[Marina door handles]

Update time again, so more pictures that probably make little sense and some waffle.........

The hole saw arrived in the post so I could make a  neat hole for the filler.

This worked rather better than I expected...

And the view from the other side.

The next stage was what I thought would be a final fit but I found a gap in one corner so had to add another tab to the panel.

Looks even weirder from underneath but at least there are no gaping holes now!

So finally time to take a deep breath and start to weld the panel into place! But lets do a quick before and after.

Plug welding commences....

Look Ma no  hands, sorry I mean no tiny bolts...... And it stays in place!

At this point I had enough of crouching in the boot of the Rover, pins and needles had set in, in one of my feet, this is soooo much fun! Anyway progress of sorts, next time I will attempt to weld the bottom half of the panel in.

Thanks for reading. 

 

 

 

 

[Marina door handles]

A brief update, a little more welding, grinding and fun with paint.

Arty shot of welding to the lower section...

Red oxide on for protection.

Then weld through primer for the bits that are going to get a bit hot and bothered by the zappy sparky stick...

Next time I am off work I may get to weld the top section back on.....