project 1968 MG Midget - Bodywork repair and welding

[mercedade]

Great write up Si, especially your reflections on how much you've learned from the 'mistakes' you've made. I doubt very much anyone would have avoided most of them (hence the inverted commas!) without decades of experience, and so much of what you've said tallies up with the experience of buying any car, let alone a not-intended-to-be-a restoration project.

One question - when you say this

23 hours ago, SiC said:

V5 in the last owners name should have been enough reason to walk away if seen in person. 

do you mean that the issue was you bought the car from someone who evidently hadn't owned it for long enough to even register it in their own name?

[SiC]

29 minutes ago, mercedade said:

do you mean that the issue was you bought the car from someone who evidently hadn't owned it for long enough to even register it in their own name?

Yeah. When I did a check it said the last owner acquired it on the "21-08-2010". So a long term owner. The chap I bought it from only had it a few months tops. That is a big red flag for me and one I'd usually walk away from if I was there in person.

This only came to light when inspector morose arrived to pickup and was handed the V5. Problem is that barrow-in-furness is a long way from everything/anyone. So I'd lost a chunk of money from transportation costs if I pulled out then. As I'd already mentally committed, it's much easier to give the nod to go ahead than hit the abort button. Also the seller previously said that it was a project he was going to do with his son. So I erroneously assumed from quick thinking at the time that was the previous seller.

Incidentally I found the previous advert that previous (long term) seller by googling the reg and finding a link to it on the eBay thread here. 

The blue 1100 I bought was sight unseen and a good little car. Likewise the P4 I bought unseen ended up being a good buy too. 

You win some, you loose some. A risky game though and have to be prepared to loose money from a duff purchase.

Biggest thing is that I should have bailed out at so many points before now. But the flip side is that, despite struggling for time, I've enjoyed fixing the body up on this one. Massively helped by the cheap, accurate and easy supply of panels (custom panel making is hard and time consuming).

[SiC]

Some grinding for a Friday night. Then welding to fill the holes from grinding. Then more grinding. Rinse and repeat. Finally paint.

This took a good hour and half to get to this stage. Welding is a pretty quick job. It's the prep and post finish that takes the time.

 

This is the gap I'm talking about that's between the floor and body. Huge gap that's big enough to get a large flat headed screwdriver in with it on the widest side. Probably a good 1cm at the widest. This was originally hidden (badly) with good ol' filler. Still haven't quite managed to clean all that out yet either. 

My current thought is to cut the floor on the right hand side (shit welds anyway) and then hope I can bend the floor upwards to close the gap. The other end has a gap but much smaller. Still larger than I'd like but probably only quarter centimetre or so. 

[chodweaver]

How is that gap there? Was it really that bad from the factory, or has some large scale bodging taken place on the floor or body?

Invaluable insight into restoration techniques, this whole thread. Keep it up!

[SiC]

7 hours ago, chodweaver said:

How is that gap there? Was it really that bad from the factory, or has some large scale bodging taken place on the floor or body?

The floor has been replaced previously. Just not very well. 

[SiC]

As usual, I hoped to get more done this weekend but always something that gets in the way. As the weather was absolutely fantastic, I went for a local walk with Mrs SiC.

Just as I took that picture, I received a message from my neighbour if I wanted to go for a pint. While I wanted to get on with the Midget, I couldn't say no. By the time I got back an hour or so later, things were a bit blurry and I thought it was prudent to sober up before I cut my ligaments off from my clumsiness.

First job was lining this inner panel. I tacked in place, ground back to flat and rechecked the positioning with the outer panel. 

 

Then a few more tacks and double checking again with the outer panel in place.

 

Finally a decent seam weld across.

 

Next was fixing this hole.

Cutting back the arch repair panel for both access and I'll be bashing it over the top after.

 

Using my trusted method of wallpaper lining paper to make a template (easier to bend and work with than straight cardboard while coming on a handy reel).

I'm running a bit short of metal so I'm reusing cut off old bits. This was the front footwell side panel. Nice thick metal and in the middle it's in good condition.

Cut out and fit into place.

Weld (camera getting confused by my torch pwm)

Grind

Other side had good penetration but I realised that this will be the most visible. So I ran another bead and grind down again.

Then bend the inner repair panel back over. I might cut this back a bit more before welding on. I did the other side and still left plenty to close up the arch from the outside.

[High Jetter]

After a* pint? Respect.

[SiC]

An evening job again due to enjoying the warm weather today and DIY duty in the afternoon.

Finished this side and ground back 

Did this side too. This was a pain. The angle on the bottom was tricky to get right. Bending into place but clamps didn't clamp. So push into place, flip visor and tacking. Then hoping the outer fits. Thankfully it did even though I did it by eye. 

Then painted.

 

I need to revisit this corner and put a few welds down to clean and seal it up. It's a bit of a mess right now to be honest.

The rear is messy but the back panel will be cut off. I'll have to make sure this outrigger bit fits and seals when I do the back panel though. Hammers most likely will be the solution here.

 

Lined the outer panel up again as this will be the next job (after that clean up above).

Fits okay but will need some work. Chiefly this sticks too far out at the front of the arch. Will be a bit of cutting and bending likely to get this right. Doesn't look much on camera but very noticeable in person.

Also there is a bigger gap at the front here. This is an interesting one as the other side did this too. Going around shows I would see the same on some cars. 

Pretty sure all Steelcraft panels are like this and aren't bent quite far enough down at this edge. It's a good indication if you look at a Midget here if it's had the rear panel replaced with one of these repair sections. I don't think the full heritage panel does this. 

Not a lot I can do without major surgery to the panel. On the otherside I did try twisting it to reduce it as much as possible. My metal working skills aren't good enough to risk bashing/cutting to adjust it. So I'll get it as best as possible but it could just be one of those things. I'll just blame BL build quality here and say it's normal...

[Matty]

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/166359087176?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-127632-2357-0&ssspo=aYEFJECVRc6&sssrc=4429486&ssuid=svwv9r4orxa&var=&widget_ver=artemis&media=COPY

Have you seen this? Lovely though it is, surely you can't have this money in yours when your done. Yes you've got your time, but it's a hobby job. Keep going, proper job you're doing.

[SiC]

36 minutes ago, Matty said:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/166359087176?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-127632-2357-0&ssspo=aYEFJECVRc6&sssrc=4429486&ssuid=svwv9r4orxa&var=&widget_ver=artemis&media=COPY

Have you seen this? Lovely though it is, surely you can't have this money in yours when your done. Yes you've got your time, but it's a hobby job. Keep going, proper job you're doing.

Not yet but I haven't put paint on it yet 😅

That's a Round Wheel Arch car which apparently is desirable. I like them but I prefer the bigger chrome bumpers of these pre 70s cars and why I went for this. 

[EmmaJNation]

On 14/10/2023 at 23:53, Matty said:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/166359087176?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-127632-2357-0&ssspo=aYEFJECVRc6&sssrc=4429486&ssuid=svwv9r4orxa&var=&widget_ver=artemis&media=COPY

Have you seen this? Lovely though it is, surely you can't have this money in yours when your done. Yes you've got your time, but it's a hobby job. Keep going, proper job you're doing.

It’s easily done - when I added up the cost of parts when I rebuilt my first Midget, it was about £5,500 and that was in late 80s/early 90s prices! 

[SiC]

Its been 2 years since I bought the Little Regret (TM). Grand plans as always to get stuff done. This week was all booked off work to crack on. Naturally things got in the way. Tiredness and then subsequently a chest infection are my excuses this time. Chest infection isn't the best thing to have when breathing in grinding dust and welding fumes. Yes I do have a respirator and yes I should be wearing it. However its uncomfortable and gets in the way. More bad excuses I know...

This episode is getting this rear panel attached. I lined it all up, ground back the paint on the edges and punched holes around the arch to plug weld.

 

Then painted the inside of the panel to cover any scratches from when I was moving it in place.

 

Day after the paint had dried and I lined it up ready

 

Tacked in place

However the two panels weren't quite flush. I didn't cut off enough between the two panels to quite get them lined up properly

 

Today I rectified this by running a thin cutting disc along and retacking.

Clamps helped keep the panels in place and aligned. I also used a ruler from a right angle to push against the panel to ensure as best as possible they'd stay flat to each other

Then cleaned up the welds 

 

I now need to go along and fill all the gaps in with tacks. This is a very slow process as I need to zap the tack then blast with compressed air to stop the panel getting too hot.

Being thin metal, it'd be really easy to put too much heat through and warp the hell out of it. Slow and patience is whats needed - not something I can easily do when I'm in the flow.

This is where a less reputable restoration shop could easily cut corners here by stopping here and just slopping filler all over it. No one would know until it cracked or needed replacing again. But I'm not being paid by the hour on this and I want it done properly. So I'll be back to it in due course and finish it. Hopefully not in another few months (but I'd expect so tbh).

[SiC]

You can never have enough clamps when welding. 

I probably went a bit too quick on the top. I get into a habit of doing short weld runs thinking it'll be okay. Its not badly warped but it's definitely not dead flat.

 

Also plug welded the door shut.

 

The gap at the bottom of this panel is enormous. These steelcraft panels have a much bigger gap than the original.

I think on the other side I must have reshaped it to close the gap a bit more.

 

Not sure what I'm going to do with this. Maybe cut the bottom and try extending it. That's the limit of my abilities though as it may end up being too obvious and messy. Especially as the panel is visible.

Plug welded around the arch. This was a horrible job as gravity doesn't like welding upside down. One of those jobs that I wish it was on a rotisserie or if I had a proper spot welder. Maybe I'll get one, one day. 

 

Then nearly 3 hours of careful, noisy grinding. Still a bit more to finish off but most of its done. I'll probably have to put a few welds in to fix holes and then grind again.

 

It's pretty flat but not quite as flat as the other side unfortunately. Not the most visible on camera but possible to feel by hand. I think I must have put too much heat in. Or it was always like that from previous work to me - remember it had a whole heap of filler on so it would have been hidden. Hopefully a skim of filler will finish this off flat and invisible. 

 

[SiC]

I sliced this bit up to bend downwards to try closing the gap up a bit more. 

I used a set square steel ruler to set the gap. 

Then welded

 

Gap is definitely smaller but tbh it's still larger than the other side. However at least it's now a consistent gap along the edge.

 

Ground back the welds

 

Going to need a skim of filler to finish it off but it's better than it was.

 

Then set to work welding up the holes on the top section. Blew through the panel a few times and had to patch up the holes. Tried my best but I did end up putting a bit too much heat into it.

The tail end is just about acceptable.

 

But I'm really not happy with the door end. Not quite sure what to do here so I'm very welcome to any suggestions. Worse case I could chop it out and redo with a replacement panel. But that feels a bit drastic. 

I've tried bashing it into shape but the lump is pretty tough to bend. Once the primer dries, I'm going to get a straight edge on it to see if it could at least be skimmed with filler. 

[Matty]

If you're struggling where the metals thin and blow through, if you've a lump of brass you can hold over the rear of the hole, it'll allow you to fill the hole in easily. Obviously won't bond to the brass but it gives you kind of a backstop to work against and as a bonus the brass will absorb a bit of the excess heat too.

[SiC]

I've just attacked it with a flat sanding disc. Pretty sure what's happened here is that I put too much heat through initially welding the panel on and warped it. Then sanded flat but that too much off. I rewelded but that made it lumpy. 

Anyway I've got even bigger problems now 🤣🫠

I'll get my copper tongue out and get welding to fill this mess up with fresh welds. 

[Matty]

Definatly coming along though. And you haven't thrown the towel in and walked away, which is what 90% of people in this position seem to do. Be belting to see this back on the road 👍

[SiC]

Redid the left bit which wasn't so bad. Looks lumpy below (which it is) and I can't get much to the back of it to bash it out. But it's below a straight edge, so a skim of filler should sort it.

The right .... well I've made my bed and now I need to sleep in it. 😅

A small patch that hopefully look seamless once finished with filler + paint. At least it's solid. 

[SiC]

2 hours ago, Matty said:

Definatly coming along though. And you haven't thrown the towel in and walked away, which is what 90% of people in this position seem to do. Be belting to see this back on the road 👍

Sometimes I think I really should have done! You could have a had a nice recently rebuilt 1275  🤣

[jim89]

14 hours ago, Matty said:

If you're struggling where the metals thin and blow through, if you've a lump of brass you can hold over the rear of the hole, it'll allow you to fill the hole in easily. Obviously won't bond to the brass but it gives you kind of a backstop to work against and as a bonus the brass will absorb a bit of the excess heat too.

Or copper👍🏼. 

Length of 22mm copper pipe with the end hammered flat can be most useful for poking inside panels to do the same trick 👍🏼.

[Joey spud]

I can feel your pain although on a slightly smaller scale. I thought distortion of panels when welding was bum wash and only happened to idiots. 

I mean how hard could replacing the bottom of a Minor door actually be ?

Despite carefully lining everything up and using gentle tack welds before slowly fully welding the joint I managed to give myself a world of pain. The join was ok but I had managed to introduce high spots a low spots along it's length that required hitting with a hammer and bock of hard wood to try to improve before I could even think about troweling on many layers of "Big Boy Easy Sand" filler (from Toolstation and good stuff actually) that I seemed to end up mostly sanding off before reapplying again.

I was doing this up the shed in December so it was a bloody cold and miserable task. Eventually after covering the contents of the shed with a thick layer of white dust I was able to get a half decent finish untill I put a straight edge along the bottom of the door and discovered the door now had an inward bow to it.

Now it's fitted and has the finishing strip below it it's a bit visible but I never set out create a shiny show winner so it's perfectly fine for me.

All I can advise is it's easier to fill a low spot than try to blend in a high one and using a misting of paint as a guide helps to avoid you going mad chasing  perceived imperfections.

[SiC]

I think I'll be bashing it with a hammer and a block of wood first too. Even if it's to get it lower than before and the main part of the panel. 

[Joey spud]

18 minutes ago, SiC said:

I think I'll be bashing it with a hammer and a block of wood first too. Even if it's to get it lower than before and the main part of the panel. 

Exactly. Is there a chrome trim fitted above this join ?

I also struggled with my lower quarter panel fitment I only tacked it on and then used tiger seal on the inside to bond it to try and reduce distortion but still struggled to get a satisfactory finish.

But still ended up digging out my filler and years old filler further up the panel,dressing the join/seam back further and trying again before I was half happy.

To be honest I don't think the car will ever get a decent repaint while in my ownership so my imperfections are less obvious.

[SiC]

2 minutes ago, Joey spud said:

Exactly. Is there a chrome trim fitted above this join ?

Yeah I forgot to mention this. At least if there is a bit of a bulge, then the chrome should possibly hide some of it. I will need to drill holes for the chrome though,  so the filler can't be too thick!

3 minutes ago, Joey spud said:

To be honest I don't think the car will ever get a decent repaint while in my ownership so my imperfections are less obvious.

I was intending to go for a pro paint job but I fully expect it to be pricey. But at least they should have the skills to filler/paint bits like this and sort it. 

Just annoying as the other side is perfect! I think I ran on much lower heat settings than this side. 

[SiC]

Still bad but at least it should be fixable with filler now. The chrome strip should also hide anything left. 

Ignore the paint runs. 🤣

 

[SiC]

Had this hole to fill. This is the same on the other side where a previous restored made a hole. Not entirely sure why but the old patch of course wasn't welded properly.

Small piece cut to shape.

Weld and grind. Loads of grinding to get the bottom bit a nice curve. This is visible in the door jam so I wanted it looking tidy.

 

Then paint to protect.

 

That pretty much finishes this outer side now. Of course still will need filler and paint but that is a job in its own right.

 

Next bits are welding the floor pans. Even though they have welds, I don't have a whole lot of confidence in them.

These welds need cleaning and redoing while I'm here 

 

Here too. 

 

Then the middle needs sorting. Especially the big gaps along the floor and side. Not sure exactly what I'm going to do. Probably fillets and weld. I really don't want to cut the floor off as that's opening myself to a whole world of pain and extra work. 

Then this rear section needs doing.

I'll need to brace the top with some square bar. Also get the doors in to keep it rigid. It's double skinned where a replacement piece has been welded over the top of the original. There shouldn't be a flat section at the bottom either. My replacement panel (which I need to find!) should allow me to cut this whole back piece out from half of the fuel fillet hole downwards and replace it. 

 

After that it's on the home straight. I'm going to plug weld the passenger side sill as I don't have a whole lot of confidence in those welds. I didn't replace that sill (I wish I had tbh) and the usual case of anything the last restorer touched, I'm doing again. 

Likewise underneath I've found a few suspect welds on patches too. So need to weld underneath. Tbh I'm seriously considering taking the engine, gearbox and diff out. This will allow me to pretty much roll it on its side and give me far better access underneath. Also allows the engine bay to properly be stripped, cleaned and sorted ready for paint. 

 

 

[Marina door handles]

It definitely is "getting there", welding thin steel is something of a test of patience and its so easy to warp or blow through.  Still I prefer welding to filler-ing and painting, way more satisfying.

[motorpunk]

I feel like we’re all learning together as this project progresses. I like the detailed pics. Good luck. 

[SiC]

I've done some stuff! Actually this was a few weeks months ago and I hadn't bothered writing it up. This was in-between doing stuff on the Z4, 330i and I think E320 & Golf GTI. I did take some photos though.

First job was to unbury it. It's a useful dumping ground shelf for parts when fixing the moderns on the drive. But not very helpful when you want to work on it.

I started off by picking at some crap welds. Like most of the previous work on this car they just popped off. How this car hasn't fallen apart like a clown car I do not know.

I can't find the photos of the left side but this essentially was covering a big hole.

I plug welded this back on to make sure it was attached to the internal braces. Original this would have been spot welded on. 

 

Right side was a covering a big area that didn't need patching. Once pulled off, I cut down to fit it better and leave the original factory on show.

Then welded up.

I also went round the interior and put beads on any iffy welds. Also pulled off patches and cut to a more appropriate size.

There still are a few bits of stuff to grind down and finish a few patches up. I'll get back to them soon. 

[SiC]

Today I set upon the rear. The back panel was going to be chopped out.

Welded a simple brace in to stop it caving in. Didn't go crazy on the tack this time as I'll need to cut it off and clean up when finished.

 

Removed the exhaust. This one irritates me as it points the wrong way. The temptation to put a cherry bomb as a replacement on here is strong.

Rear is basically looks to be a cut from another shell that has been badly grafted on. Does make a few handy clear cut lines though. Note the straight bit at the very bottom. This should be curved.

Chop chop chop

Final chop and clean up on the bottom half.

 

The removed metal is double skinned. Not because it's supposed to be, but because it's been bodged with an extra sheet steel piece. 

Lining up the new panel to see how it fits. This new panel is heritage so original pressings.

However it's going to need some fettling on the corners by the lights to fit properly.

Let's see how long it'll take for me to get around to welding this panel on now!