2003 Citroen C5 estate.....the end

[maxxo]

i should also add, 2 days ago, it beeped randomly at me

saw the yellow "service" light flash on

by the time i looked at the screen it was gone, tried to use "check control" in the menu but nothing

it could have been a good clue, but i had also used the washers so maybe the fluid sensor acted up

[Noel Tidybeard]

pedal sensor- as car is fly-by-wire there is no mechanical link between pedal & cruise control which is why car behaves normal with cruise switches

[myglaren]

I think on yours it has a throttle cable that operates a potentiometer.

One of mine when I bought it was pretty rubbish and, among other things, tightening the throttle cable made a substantial improvement.

[maxxo]

erm right

it did it again and i couldn't accelerate through it on cruise

i can smell it running from behind at idle

and lastly, just filled up on a tank i only got 430 miles before the light came on

31 mpg according to my calculations

hmmmmmmmmmmmm

[maxxo]

does this sound, well, off to you all?

just sounds different

[AnnoyingPentium]

20 minutes ago, maxxo said:

erm right

it did it again and i couldn't accelerate through it on cruise

i can smell it running from behind at idle

and lastly, just filled up on a tank i only got 430 miles before the light came on

31 mpg according to my calculations

hmmmmmmmmmmmm

Sounds like it's running rich, as your evidence would definitely suggest. Start checking sensors etc that dictate fuelling as per the message I sent you on Facebook.

[maxxo]

went out in this tonight with my father and lexia running, me driving, him monitoring

fuel corrections on the injectors, fine

however

take a note of the eccelerator pedal position, especially towards the end and the turbo pressure setting and measured

fuel pressure is a bit all over, but going to ignore that for now

we bother agreed, turbo

i feel there may be either a wastegate solenoid, or something like that wrong with the turbo system

or, a tired turbo that's starting to give up after 180,000 miles

disregard gearbox now, did several 100% throttle pulls even up a hill and it behaved perfectly

[RoverFolkUs]

Check for a boost leak, you won't always hear or feel them, but they'll be bad enough to cause issues under load. A smoke test through the inlet would be a good thing to try. 

Any smoke? A boost leak will also make it run rich - as the air (boost) will obviously be leaking out - so less air supplied than expected. 

Check the throttle pedal position readings at idle/stationary, that would confirm if it's potentiometer related. A potentiometer is going to fail both with and without load, not one or the other. 

Are those "0" points on the acc position occuring randomly or are they points where you've let off the throttle? 

[maxxo]

so it's develped to the point now where it's up to temp you have a noticeable lack of power down low in the rev range

if you accelerate hard you have nothing until around 3,000 rpm when you get a decent amount of black smoke out the back and you shoot off

juddering in 2nd unlocked i think may be the same issue

rear bumper has soot on the lower section

turbo sounds a bit louder than before? not sure if i'm just noticing it more

but no boost under 2.5k rpm at times when warm, the hotter the engine the worse it is

full throttle acceleration up a hill to 90 ish, lacking in power at times and then boost comes back, lots of exhaust smoke

[maxxo]

2 minutes ago, RoverFolkUs said:

Are those "0" points on the acc position occuring randomly or are they points where you've let off the throttle? 

points i've let off the throttle, i was on an industrial estate so had lots of chances to accelerate hard, stop etc

[RoverFolkUs]

Defo check for boost leaks. You're describing classic symptoms there. 

A garage probably wouldn't charge much more than 0.5-1 hour labour to do one. If you're lucky they might do it for cash at the end of the day

1 minute ago, maxxo said:

points i've let off the throttle, i was on an industrial estate so had lots of chances to accelerate hard, stop etc

In that case, pedal readings look fine to me 

[RoverFolkUs]

Turbo assistance is usually quite low down in the rev range, once you're at the higher revs the turbo assistance is less efficient/required

[maxxo]

Just now, RoverFolkUs said:

Defo check for boost leaks. You're describing classic symptoms there. 

A garage probably wouldn't charge much more than 0.5-1 hour labour to do one. If you're lucky they might do it for cash at the end of the day

In that case, pedal readings look fine to me 

doesn't seem to have one, pressures held fine just took ages to reach

i think there's an issue with the wastegate

[maxxo]

1 minute ago, RoverFolkUs said:

Turbo assistance is usually quite low down in the rev range, once you're at the higher revs the turbo assistance is less efficient/required

it was asking for 1.8 bar of boost, it couldn't get more than 1.2

[maxxo]

if worst case it needs a turbo, i'm happy to do that

[RoverFolkUs]

Yes it will likely be one or the other. Surprised you haven't got an underboost code 

It's not going to be a gaping boost leak, otherwise you'd have no turbo at all obviously. 

I've just done an S-Max and Freelander this week. Both were still boosting but down on power. the Freelander was smoking like fuck. Both had splits in one of their intercooler hoses

Assuming the wastegate is vacuum operated it's worth checking the vacuum hoses. 

Turbo itself as a last resort

[maxxo]

i'd agree with boost pipe, but only when it's properly hot and then staying like that even as it cools down with normal driving.....

wastegate is ECU operated with a vacuum valve i believe, they're £50 for a new one which i might try

normally even i wouldn't delve this deep into diagnosing an issue, i'd normally bail

but i bloody love this car

[Rusty_Rocket]

I'd advise you to take it to a proper diesel specialist, if you ever want to fix it.

Internet experts and £50 here and there will lead to tears before bedtime, I promise you!

[Jds1]

Sounds like either the boost solenoid or swirl valve / air doser. Yours is the 2.2 isn't it.

https://frenchcarforum.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?t=26777&sid=cb75bf636084640da373177e8d4f1166&start=45

[maxxo]

5 minutes ago, Jds1 said:

Sounds like either the boost solenoid or swirl valve / air doser. Yours is the 2.2 isn't it.

https://frenchcarforum.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?t=26777&sid=cb75bf636084640da373177e8d4f1166&start=45

2.0 so the simpler engine

wastegate solenoid is what I’m starting to suspect now

which is a lot better than a gearbox!

[RoverFolkUs]

19 hours ago, maxxo said:

wastegate is ECU operated with a vacuum valve i believe, they're £50 for a new one which i might try

Correct, you'll need to check the vacuum supply to the valve.

The wastegate is vacuum operated, but the valve is in line to divert the vacuum to atmosphere or the wastegate, depending on what the ECU commands. 

If the valve is faulty they'll usually be stuck closed and you'll have no boost at all. 

However a difference depending on the engine being hot/cold cannot be explained by a split vacuum hose 🤔

[maxxo]

2 hours ago, RoverFolkUs said:

Correct, you'll need to check the vacuum supply to the valve.

The wastegate is vacuum operated, but the valve is in line to divert the vacuum to atmosphere or the wastegate, depending on what the ECU commands. 

If the valve is faulty they'll usually be stuck closed and you'll have no boost at all. 

However a difference depending on the engine being hot/cold cannot be explained by a split vacuum hose 🤔

i think, it might be worn

thermal expansion comes in to play at time and it sticks, only sometimes

but it's getting worse

funnily enough it didn't act up once today

[maxxo]

did a new thing today

didn't completely lose power but felt a bit meh

moderate acceleration, not hard enough to kick down but enough to get up to speed quickly.....from 50-70

seemed to almost hesitate for a bit and kicked out some smoke

grey smoke......not clag

hmmmmmm

[maxxo]

which one is which? i'm aware one is for the EGR and the other for the turbo

they both look fine, no split pipes and traced them all down as far as i could and there was no faults with them as far as i can see

unless the solenoid has failed? that's the only thing i can think of

80 odd miles done it today, yes it felt a bit lacking at times but it was fine and economy was reasonable too

no real smoke issues as far as i could see

 

otherwise, the car is doing great still

will need a wheel balancing and discs/pads at some point

i'm really stumped on this now

[maxxo]

uh oh!

driving along today, it felt fine

went to accelerate and my god it was slow, glanced at the rev counter oh shit why's it going up

managed to get it to do it on camera, you can just see the revs increase slightly.....never used to that and i don't think it partially unlocks the converter at those speeds (i think it just kicks down)

fun, i thought

anyway, lost loads of power around the same time too but then it came back, then went away etc

it got me thinking, mostly about the juddering

so i pulled into the local industrial estate and did some experiments

experiments with, well, sad findings

this was full throttle......

i noticed it juddering a bit too

i then put the transmission in "snow" mode whichs locks in 2nd

this was foot to the floor

you may hear a low pitched thud noise, no, that wasn't the road surface that was the whole car juddering

Fuck with a capital F

 

so, what do i think is the issue?

i think i've got 2 issues

i think the wastegate solenoid is worn out and causing a lack of boost when hot, that i don't mind, easy to fix

however, as my discovery in snow mode.......

i've certainly got a gearbox problem

[maxxo]

this is now most likely for sale

sensible offers are welcome

just want an easy sale

 

[maxxo]

well, it's the end of this project

the car is unfortunately being picked up for scrap tomorrow

i just can't justify the costs to repair what needs doing

i'm really truly sorry, i tried, i really did

but, this is terminal

 

LDS leak, autobox is about dead, suspected EGR issue.....then a few little service items

[maxxo]

i'll admit, i'm really really upset

not devastated, worse, truly sad about this

[Jim Bell]

You couldnt have done any more man. 

Best thing to do now is buy another one and do it all again. 

[AnnoyingPentium]

Whit @Jim Bell said...

It's the end of one era, and the start of another one... with another C5, of course.