Picasso restoration.......a tale of idiocy and citroen fun

[maxxo]

anyone got reccomendations for a rust protective spray which has a decent length hose on it? i'll be filling the sills with waxoyl for some more protection over the weekend

also the subframe needs a bit of love, i was thinking just wire brush all the loose shit off and then paint hammerite waxoyl stuff on it

probably gonna spend a few hours just coating all the salt traps and anywhere the original underseal has cracked/areas of concern

surprised just how much surface crap is on the towbar mountings, not for long of course

also going to put a fair amount of rust preventative metal paint on the wheel carrier and actually grease the bolt!

i'm determined to make this car completely rot free for as long as possible

 

[plasticvandan]

Hammerite won't achieve that I'm afraid,possibly the worst brush paint I've ever used and rusts through in months.

[maxxo]

5 minutes ago, plasticvandan said:

Hammerite won't achieve that I'm afraid,possibly the worst brush paint I've ever used and rusts through in months.

was thinking that, it's applied quite weird since the last time i did it some areas it's still absolutely solid and the waxoyl in it seems to have set

other places seem to have lost the coating, i'm wondering if the water from the AC drain is causing the issues before it's properly set

[maxxo]

Just about finished "de rusting" the rear end

found this in the garage, never been opened of course and i like this stuff

I'm aware i got it on the exhaust but i'm sure it's fine

good wire brushing and a good coating of this stuff should protect it for another couple of years hopefully

i do need to get back under there with a much smaller brush to get in all the little areas but otherwise i'd say the worst of it is over

Tow bar pretty much done too, now that was rotten with all it's galvinised layer falling off, made quite a mess underneath

as i say i need to get a small brush on the little areas the big one can't reach

i'm just doing a little bit every couple of days, then i won't get sick of it

subframe is the big one i will need to get it up on stands for and does need a mega wirebrushing but doesn't look that rotten

at the same time i'll get the arch liners off and get the sills completely cleared out

[rickvw72]

Ideally you want to kill off the rust, paint, then underseal.

Have a look at buzzweld and bilt  hamber stuff, it’s brilliant. 

[maxxo]

I shall do!

i reckon that might be what i do with the subframe

i know this isn't ideal but it's at least some protection

[Prote]

On 8/12/2020 at 12:02 AM, maxxo said:

I can say for absolute certain this car really doesn't like hot days, like this week has been

My PIgasshole didn't like the recent very hot weather. Initially, I was thinking it might be fuel evaporation somewhere.

I changed the MAP sensor and the coil pack and it's all ok now - pulls like a train. A very slow train...

Perhaps the MAF on your diesel one needs cleaning with MAF spray cleaner? - that can cause uneven running. That's a cheap starting point anyway.

 

[maxxo]

870 miles covered since monday

zero issues at all, apart from the cd player failing for about 5 minutes.....thankfully it's fine now

i must admit i'm still surprised by just how smooth it is at speed, it's almost like riding on silk

500 miles left to do before monday and then i can give "pablo" a good well deserved rest

[maxxo]

3 minutes ago, Prote said:

My PIgasshole didn't like the recent very hot weather. Initially, I was thinking it might be fuel evaporation somewhere.

I changed the MAP sensor and the coil pack and it's all ok now - pulls like a train. A very slow train...

Perhaps the MAF on your diesel one needs cleaning with MAF spray cleaner? - that can cause uneven running. That's a cheap starting point anyway.

 

funnily enough i do have a spare completely unknown MAF sensor

i feel you may be right, it could be well worth cleaning it out

i do believe i have a cooling fan sensor that's a bit sensitive, as pretty much as soon as you stop it kicks in on high speed when it's up to temp......i have no intention of fixing that as i'd rather it did run when wasn't needed rather than fail to run when needed

[Prote]

28 minutes ago, maxxo said:

funnily enough i do have a spare completely unknown MAF sensor

i feel you may be right, it could be well worth cleaning it out

i do believe i have a cooling fan sensor that's a bit sensitive, as pretty much as soon as you stop it kicks in on high speed when it's up to temp......i have no intention of fixing that as i'd rather it did run when wasn't needed rather than fail to run when needed

I'd try cleaning it with the MAF spray - just make sure you don't touch or damage the sensor.

I've never heard my fan come on. The temperature gauge always stays on 2 bars. The fan does work as it spins when the air con is on but doesn't seem to kick in like most car fans where you can hear/feel it. I've been told these tend to run cool.

[maxxo]

5 minutes ago, Prote said:

I'd try cleaning it with the MAF spray - just make sure you don't touch or damage the sensor.

I've never heard my fan come on. The temperature gauge always stays on 2 bars. The fan does work as it spins when the air con is on but doesn't seem to kick in like most car fans where you can hear/feel it. I've been told these tend to run cool.

Yes i believe that may be a good idea, i'll get some during the week

interesting fact, only the pre 2003 models ran at 2 bars......later ones like mine run at 3 bars

talking about air con i reckon i might get mine properly regassed soon, i used a bottle of gas last year and i'd just rather it was done properly

[Prote]

1 minute ago, maxxo said:

Yes i believe that may be a good idea, i'll get some during the week

interesting fact, only the pre 2003 models ran at 2 bars......later ones like mine run at 3 bars

talking about air con i reckon i might get mine properly regassed soon, i used a bottle of gas last year and i'd just rather it was done properly

My air-con didn't work when I got the car. I re-gassed it with a bottle of EZ-Chlll from Halfrauds and it still didn't work. Then one day the compressor kicked in and it's been ok since. Typical Citroen unpredictability.

[Prote]

My next fix is the sunroof. It works fine but makes funny squealing/squeaking sounds as you drive along. Am guessing the seal has compressed it and the heavy glass roof is moving up and down.

[maxxo]

4 minutes ago, Prote said:

My air-con didn't work when I got the car. I re-gassed it with a bottle of EZ-Chlll from Halfrauds and it still didn't work. Then one day the compressor kicked in and it's been ok since. Typical Citroen unpredictability.

Mines always worked, but it was weak when i got the car and i feel that's probably due to it sitting for 8 months before i saved it

i've contacted a local citroen specialist, simply because i want it doing correctly

[maxxo]

3 minutes ago, Prote said:

My next fix is the sunroof. It works fine but makes funny squealing/squeaking sounds as you drive along. Am guessing the seal has compressed it and the heavy glass roof is moving up and down.

lucky you having the sun roof!

saw a picasso the other day with the fabric roof, of course i thought that was absolutely fantastic and i got insanely jealous

[Kiltox]

10 minutes ago, maxxo said:

Mines always worked, but it was weak when i got the car and i feel that's probably due to it sitting for 8 months before i saved it

i've contacted a local citroen specialist, simply because i want it doing correctly

A Citroen specialist won’t know shit about air con - find an air con specialist. 
 

not joking - so few people actually repair their air con in this country that you won’t get proper service from anyone apart from places that spend their entire day working with it. 

[maxxo]

2 minutes ago, Kiltox said:

A Citroen specialist won’t know shit about air con - find an air con specialist. 

there isn't any i trust

the reason for the specialist is my dads best friend runs it and knows what i'm like

[maxxo]

Had a good chat with the citroen specialist today

well mainly about my dad and south cleveland garages but it's booked in for tuesday morning

i'm aware the air con is pretty cold at the moment but i'd rather it had the correct amount of gas and lubricant and i do tend to get a bit of hissing when it first kicks in

[beko1987]

It's winter soon, you don't need air con! 

[maxxo]

14 minutes ago, beko1987 said:

It's winter soon, you don't need air con! 

you've evidently never driven a picasso

they steam up like crazy

[beko1987]

3 minutes ago, maxxo said:

you've evidently never driven a picasso

they steam up like crazy

My xsara seems to as well. Trick is to bang the fans on full with the window open, then drive the first few miles peering out of a tiny porthole down by the dash. 

The speed and load heats the engine up mega fast and after a while it'll suddenly clear the screen. 

Its perfectly safe* and very effective 

 

(if mine passes its mot it'll go in for a re-gas for identical dehumidifying reasons!) 

[maxxo]

1 hour ago, beko1987 said:

My xsara seems to as well. Trick is to bang the fans on full with the window open, then drive the first few miles peering out of a tiny porthole down by the dash. 

The speed and load heats the engine up mega fast and after a while it'll suddenly clear the screen. 

Its perfectly safe* and very effective 

 

(if mine passes its mot it'll go in for a re-gas for identical dehumidifying reasons!) 

I assume like mine yours takes ages to get up to temp in the winter, which is incredibly annoying as i live near a dual carriageway and i hate merging with a cold engine

many times during the winter i have had to pull over as the de-icer has somehow frozen to the windscreen leaving me completely blind

mine has a lovely screaming blower fan, only in the winter which confuses me

[maxxo]

This litle beauty arrived today

i'm very impressed with just how good it looks

[maxxo]

so a clonking whilst changing gear

and a almost rattle type noise when the flywheel judder kicks in

which engine mount do we reckon? no doubt the awkward one underneath, but i need to fix it before it deteriorates further as it could hurt old pablo

as i say this car isn't about profit, it's about keeping one going in the hard world we live in at the moment, plus i don't want it to have any issues for anyone who wants to purcahse it next year

quick question, what do we think of tinted windows? considering getting the rears done to keep the interior slightly cooler to try and help the body computer and electronic devices more comfortable on summers days

[Prote]

16 hours ago, maxxo said:

So a clonking whilst changing gear and a almost rattle type noise when the flywheel judder kicks in

which engine mount do we reckon? no doubt the awkward one underneath, but i need to fix it before it deteriorates further as it could hurt old pablo

 

My 2001 Picasso (1.6 petrol) wth 80k had (and still has) a clonk when letting the clutch in. It's an odd rattle/thump/clonk. I've had the following replaced as it driving in stop/start traffice everyday drove me mad:

• 3 engine mounts with decent Febi parts
• new droplinks
• new clutch (LuK) with new release fork and nose cone
• new gearbox oil

It's definitely a little better but still there most annoyingly when letting the clutch up in first. I still have a little clutch judder too. I think that's probably a slightly warped face of the flywheel.

My trusty old-school mechanic friend suspects it's just backlash in the gearbox - in his experience alloy gearboxes are more prone to wear like than older boxes. It clonks too when changing between gears on the move, but not as noticeable.

The front shocks failed so I had those replaced along with strut mounts, (track rod ends renewed too) so there's very little else that can rattle or clonk apart from the gearbox.

My friendly MOT put it on the ramps on his lunch break and levered/crow-bar'd everything and says there's no movement at all on any balljoints/wishbones/CV joints.

Apart from the clonk being a bit annoying, I've given up trying to find the cause....

[maxxo]

4 minutes ago, Prote said:

My 2001 Picasso (1.6 petrol) wth 80k had (and still has) a clonk when letting the clutch in. It's an odd rattle/thump/clonk. I've had the following replaced as it driving in stop/start traffice everyday drove me mad:

• 3 engine mounts with decent Febi parts
• new droplinks
• new clutch (LuK) with new release fork and nose cone
• new gearbox oil

It's definitely a little better but still there most annoyingly when letting the clutch up in first. I still have a little clutch judder too. I think that's probably a slightly warped face of the flywheel.

My trusty old-school mechanic friend suspects it's just backlash in the gearbox - in his experience alloy gearboxes are more prone to wear like than older boxes. It clonks too when changing between gears on the move, but not as noticeable.

The front shocks failed so I had those replaced along with strut mounts, (track rod ends renewed too) so there's very little else that can rattle or clonk apart from the gearbox.

My friendly MOT put it on the ramps on his lunch break and levered/crow-bar'd everything and says there's no movement at all on any balljoints/wishbones/CV joints.

Apart from the clonk being a bit annoying, I've given up trying to find the cause....

I fear mine will be exactly the same, not sure if i even full believe it is engine mounts

doesn't feel to be getting any worse so in some ways i don't see the point in spending any money on something which might not even cure it

i've got about 2 months until MOT time, which i am absolutely dreading because i very much doubt it will pass

in that time i need to get tyres and brake lines.....as far as i know

I have a feeling yours will be a lot better underneath than mine, as mine has a fair amount of broken plastic stuff

oh and i also learned why theres damage to the underside, apparently it was driven over a bus stop kerb. which is always a nice thing to hear..........

[Prote]

I wouldn't be suprised if it's something you can't fix easily. I'm not intending to keep the car for years and years so I'm not interested in getting a replacement gearbox. I've had a few old cars with clutch judder and driveline shunt that I could never cure, and throwing money at them never helped.

It's worth getting underneath to check the lower rear mount that's sort of halfway along (has a driveshaft going through it).

I understand the bolt on this mount was notorious for working loose and I think I read that a modified bolt was produced. Although most recommend using a thread-locking Loctite on it.

Yours is a diesel? Does it have a dual-mass flywheel that might be past its best?

Underneath mine is pretty good. I'll see if I can get somes pics..

[maxxo]

Decided i'm pretty much going to ignore it for the time being, if it gets worse then i'll fix it

nope no dual mass which i'm quite thankful for

sometime soon i need to attempt to sort the cold start issues before winter fully sets in as it's really quite annoying

must admit i'm very tempted to just put a new battery in so i have the power to crank for as long as it needs

i know it will be an awful job to fix whatever is wrong with it, but i'm going for the battery first as it's easy then the starter

[Prote]

Under my car.

Apart from minor surface corrosion on some of the subframe bits, the only bit I can see is paint flaking on what I assume is a rear anti-roll bar? That's an easy fix with rust-convertor and some underseal. For 80k and being 19 years old it's doing remarkably well.

 

[juular]

Older diesels with solid flywheels can sometimes make a hell of a racket from the gearbox. I had a 2004 vivaro that I was convinced had a collapsing input bearing but it was in fact just lash within the gearbox. At idle it clattered like there was another engine under there. Engaging drive gave you a loud crack, followed by a sound like a board being dragged along the road as the revs climbed.  I checked a few vans and they all seemed to do it. 

Solid flywheels designs also have big manly springs in the clutch that rattle like a bastard at idle and tend to click as the drive is picked up.

Any chance you could record it?