The Shiters guide to Vegetables ( Running on Veg)

[Lacquer Peel]

Change those glow plugs.

[M'coli]

I did, it didn't make any difference...

[Lacquer Peel]

  On 25/12/2018 at 11:18, M'coli said:

I did, it didn't make any difference...

Were they the cheapest on eBay or a decent brand?

[M'coli]

GSF ones. It fires up fine on diesel, but it's not too happy on the veg.

[lesapandre]

Tip have you have tried it. Double cycle the heater plugs and second time the light goes off give it 2 seconds before turning the key.

[M'coli]

Yes, tried that too!

[DodgeRover]

  On 12/12/2018 at 21:35, forddeliveryboy said:

I don't even really like using supermarket oil, it only filtered to around 10u (and the smaller the particle, the more damage it can do) and is often wetter than dried waste oil.

 

It really shouldn't be, I can't ever recall putting new oil into a pan and it spitting and crackling like wet oil does and let's face it if the supermarkets could get away with adding an extra 0.5% water to their oil they would all be doing it

[beko1987]

  On 25/12/2018 at 10:30, M'coli said:

Have a festive video of a cold-start on 50/50 veg:

https://youtu.be/jpLNcf4GYfc

That's a lovely sound! There's still a massive black stain on number 13's wall from the zx and xantia years! It's fading now though, the 406 chucks out diesel clag when very cold but it's not the same

[davehedgehog31]

With my 405 I leave it on for 10 secs after the light goes out and it rumbles into life naeborr.

 

If you're ever shifting your 106 I could be your man...

[Lacquer Peel]

  On 25/12/2018 at 12:56, M'coli said:

GSF ones. It fires up fine on diesel, but it's not too happy on the veg.

Beru or Bosch Duraterm or death. They need the best glow plugs possible running on veg. A 50/50 mix should be barely noticeable.

[Scruffy Bodger]

If you've tried ALL of the basics maybe the timing is marginally out or not quite right for veg? Might be worth trying to nudge the pump a notch either way? I've run veg in various psa lumps and some prefer it more than others.

[Dave_Q]

Yo, I've bought an Audi allroad with the 2.5 V6 TDI. Its a VE lump with a Bosch VP44(I think) pump.

 

INTERNET WISDOM says the pumps don't take kindly to veg, but the manuals with the car include a supplement stating that the car is hot to trot on B100 biodiesel (rapeseed methyl ester to some DIN standard)

 

I ain't got the time to collect oil and make my own, but does anyone know of anyone who may sell their surplus bio? Yes I know its probably illegal or something but I'm not from HMRC, promise.

[Tepper]

We bought 1000L of bio in an IBC from here http://www.oil-solutions.co.uk/ and it's been spot on, it's got all the additives and stuff needed to run B100 year round. Worked out around 90p a litre by the time you pay for the IBC and delivery and everything, not sure if they'd sell a smaller quantity.

[Lord Sterling]

The Red5 2.8 TD Frontera had similar starting issues when it was used on veg. 2 to 3 starts before it fired up and then a bit lumpy idling before it settled down.

 

I haven't used veg oil in it as it isn't my motor or nowt so just been using normal diesel and a result it starts up and idles better at cold. I guess it's just a minor side effect of using veg rather than straight diesel.

[DodgeRover]

Poor starting bad idle is a result of the oil being too thick, you are risking pump damage or ring gumming.

[forddeliveryboy]

  On 25/12/2018 at 13:57, DodgeRover said:

It really shouldn't be, I can't ever recall putting new oil into a pan and it spitting and crackling like wet oil does and let's face it if the supermarkets could get away with adding an extra 0.5% water to their oil they would all be doing it

Can only report my own findings. The oil I use is dried thoroughly in the processor and polished through 0.5u filters, I've found supermarket oil variable in the hpt. Of course it doesn't spit and pop like wet oil, but there'll be a max limit which commercial suppliers try and surpass as little as possible - or it's lower profits.

 

After all, throwing wet battered fish into hot oil isn't as demanding as passing it through a high pressure mechanical injector pump. I've not had one problem with pumps or injectors over many miles since 2007, and don't want one!

[davehedgehog31]

Apologies for my ignorance on this subject - I'm looking for advice on processing waste oil. 

 

At the moment I'm running my Bosch pumped 405 on 30/70 Veg:Diesel. My veg has been bought fresh. 

 

I have come into a small source, only about 1-2 gallons a week from my work, of used cooking oil. As far as used oil goes, it should be pretty clean. I'd just be looking to use this to supplement my existing running, working up to a 50:50 winter split. 

 

How should I be looking at processing a small quantity like this? Is pouring it through some kind of filter into a bucket going to cut the mustard? Or do I need to be thinking about removing water etc etc. Any advice on how I should go about making this fit to burn in small quantities would be appreciated.

[Scruffy Bodger]

If you can let it stand somewhere warm for a week or so to settle off the oil. Then carefully tip the good stuff off without disturbing the shit/water at the bottom, don't get too greedy and try and get all of it out.

 

Ideally you want to filter it hot, a second hand tea urn would be perfect for this. Then strain it through a decent cotton tea cloth and pour it in the car.

 

Even better is to get the person giving it to you to drain it off hot through a tea towel, that's how I used to run mine and had zero problems. My mate was a chef at the local golf course.

[davehedgehog31]

  On 27/12/2018 at 15:53, Scruffy Bodger said:

If you can let it stand somewhere warm for a week or so to settle off the oil. Then carefully tip the good stuff off without disturbing the shit/water at the bottom, don't get too greedy and try and get all of it out.

 

Ideally you want to filter it hot, a second hand tea urn would be perfect for this. Then strain it through a decent cotton tea cloth and pour it in the car.

 

Even better is to get the person giving it to you to drain it off hot through a tea towel, that's how I used to run mine and had zero problems. My mate was a chef at the local golf course.

 

Cheers mate - I've got a big outside storage cupboard, it's part of the house and has my living room on one side and my neighbors on the other side so it gets some residual heat. I'll maybe set up a little processing station in there if my source is steady.

 

Will need to get the bikes that never fucking move out the road first.

[M'coli]

  On 25/12/2018 at 19:38, Dave_Q said:

Yo, I've bought an Audi allroad with the 2.5 V6 TDI. Its a VE lump with a Bosch VP44(I think) pump.

 

INTERNET WISDOM says the pumps don't take kindly to veg, but the manuals with the car include a supplement stating that the car is hot to trot on B100 biodiesel (rapeseed methyl ester to some DIN standard)

 

I ain't got the time to collect oil and make my own, but does anyone know of anyone who may sell their surplus bio? Yes I know its probably illegal or something but I'm not from HMRC, promise.

5 years ago there was a place in Batley that used to sell proper biodiesel, but I don't know if they're still going.

[forddeliveryboy]

  On 27/12/2018 at 15:08, davehedgehog31 said:

Apologies for my ignorance on this subject - I'm looking for advice on processing waste oil.

 

At the moment I'm running my Bosch pumped 405 on 30/70 Veg:Diesel. My veg has been bought fresh.

 

I have come into a small source, only about 1-2 gallons a week from my work, of used cooking oil. As far as used oil goes, it should be pretty clean. I'd just be looking to use this to supplement my existing running, working up to a 50:50 winter split.

Hot filtering means any molten fats pass straight through - inadvisable unless you're planning on heating the oil to the same temp in the car before passing through the filters. If you don't, fats which are solids at ambient will steadily clog up the tank strainer, lines and filter.

 

Not dewatering or properly filtering the oil will lead to internal wear and corrosion of the injector pump and injectors - it's probably best you browse the vegoiling forums and search for 'hot pan test' and 'sock filters' at the very least. Used oil is full of small particles, tea towels will let most pass straight through. The smaller they are, the harder and sharper.

 

If your car were some disposable VAG which was going to the crusher within the year then it'd hardly matter, having breakdowns and a bill for rebuilding or replacing a 405's IP would be daft given all the info is freely offered, especially when you're still spending hundreds/thousands on diesel. If you've no other option but to gravity filter then a tea towel is irrelevant anyway, just leave the oil in a warm place for at least 2 months and take off the top 20-90%, depending on how good the waste oil is. Whatever you pour into the car must be crystal clear.

[DodgeRover]

^^^ was just about to post similar. Filter at the coldest temperature you will be running at otherwise the fats will solidify in the lines when the temperature drops overnight.

Save the cloudy stuff from the bottom of cubies and re filter when temps are higher in the summer and use it then or give it to a biodiesel producers

I think I cold filtered down to 1 micron when I was running WVO, your car fuel filter is normally 5 or 10 micron.

 

Keep a plastic bottle of the mix you are running on outside so you can check it hasn't gone thick or lumpy if we get a cold snap.

 

A proper light bulb left turned on under the tank will stop fuel gelling at that end, won't help the ice cold lines and pump though. Personally if you get a cold snap forecast I would go back to a higher percentage diesel.

[DodgeRover]

  On 27/12/2018 at 22:09, M'coli said:

5 years ago there was a place in Batley that used to sell proper biodiesel, but I don't know if they're still going.

Biodiesel for use as heating oil isn't dyed red would you believe.....

[overrun]

Here's my guide:

 

Find the right vehicle and pour it in. I've been running a 2.9TD Rexton on it for two years, it hasn't even seen a fuel filter. 

[Scruffy Bodger]

If my post wasn't clear, obviously you still let the stuff cool and don't put it straight in the tank as that would be fucking stupid. You still need to let it sit somewhere warm afterwards for a period of time and then pour the good stuff off the top after it has all settled out. I used to put mine next to the oil boiler at my mums in winter.

I did thousands of trouble free miles using the above technique with zero problems running 100% in warm weather or a mix of diesel or petrol added dependant on temperature. 

You read all sorts of horror stories on the net but Bosch pumped XUD's love veg, just use some common and don't put anything that looks suspect in the tank.

Saying that I've also seen a ZX run on contaminated hydraulic oil that looked like fucking custard. He had to change his fuel filter regularly but so what, they are cheap. At one point the bloke supplying him had to stop as he was getting through so much oil his supplier was worried not enough was going to be recycled and he'd fall foul of the powers that be.

[red5]

  On 26/12/2018 at 14:23, DodgeRover said:

Poor starting bad idle is a result of the oil being too thick, you are risking pump damage or ring gumming.

 

It can be. in this case it's 1 glow plug working and the fast idle cam being disconnected from the spiders nest™

 

And i still have the new fuel filter for it Mo.

[Scruffy Bodger]

  On 25/12/2018 at 14:26, Lacquer Peel said:

Beru or Bosch Duraterm or death. They need the best glow plugs possible running on veg. A 50/50 mix should be barely noticeable.

 

Hadn't heard of Bosch Duraterm, ta. My 405 seems to have dropped a couple of plugs in the last few weeks. I'll forgive it though as it appears to be on its original heater plugs from the manufacturer. 24 years isn't bad going 

[forddeliveryboy]

Plugs are the one item which can suffer from running on veg (probably the higher temperatures, but it could be repeated two and three cycles from cold, so it helps if they're easy to access - VW TDis are dead easy, IDI engines can be a struggle. Best not to leave dud ones too long, as mentioned above poor starting and lumpy running from cold can lead to ring gumming. Bosch Duraterm are best, but watch out for fakes on ebay.

 

By far the best approach if you run 90%+ veg through winter is to have a mains preheater - they're as little as £30 and less now, which at 10ppl is saved within 200 miles.

[320touring]

After running the Merc completely out of fuel, a word of warning..

 

Most diesels don't take kindly to being ran dry - Veg is much thicker than Derv so the pumps need to work harder to suck it up.

 

Luckily for me, the old mechanical pump in the Merc, coupled with a good battery meant that she sucked it through and fired up with no problems.

 

I cycles it a max 30secs at a time and let the starter rest in between to stop it overheating

[320touring]

Also hoping to have a vegtastic filtering setup in place later this week in conjunction with Davehedgehog31 - nothing fancy, but should drop costs significantly