Ford timelord

[Bren]

I bet he was over the moon he never made the final cut....

[Datsuncog]

Clive may well have thanked his lucky stars that his efforts remained on the cutting room floor - Christopher Reeve reckoned the Superman IV film killed his career stone dead.

I love how we can now link The KLF and the cast of Holby City in two easy steps...

[bunglebus]

This thread is great. Finding the Timelord would almost be an anti-climax.

[LightBulbFun]

WGU18G

7 total keepers with the last keeper acquiring it on 03/09/1987

and the most interesting one/big one "Scrapped: NO" 

thats my little gift for this thread/ @Datsuncog  

 

[Datsuncog]

On 11/5/2019 at 9:34 PM, LightBulbFun said:

WGU18G

7 total keepers with the last keeper acquiring it on 03/09/1987

and the most interesting one/big one "Scrapped: NO" 

thats my little gift for this thread/ @Datsuncog 

Well now, that's most interesting!

I'll check through my timeline again, but I believe that by September 1987 the Ford was in Sweden, or about to leave for Sweden... I wonder whether Jimmy had failed to get the V5 in his name prior to this (my understanding was he'd bought WGU from Flinton Chalk in late '86/early '87) and had finally got the paperwork sorted just before this overseas jaunt?

And no record of scrapping. Interesting indeed.

Thanks so much for checking that! The mystery rumbles on...

[LightBulbFun]

45 minutes ago, Datsuncog said:

Well now, that's most interesting!

I'll check through my timeline again, but I believe that by September 1987 the Ford was in Sweden, or about to leave for Sweden... I wonder whether Jimmy had failed to get the V5 in his name prior to this (my understanding was he'd bought WGU from Flinton Chalk in late '86/early '87) and had finally got the paperwork sorted just before this overseas jaunt?

And no record of scrapping. Interesting indeed.

Thanks so much for checking that! The mystery rumbles on...

Yeah after that write up on the 28th of sept, I just had to get it checked out  even before I got access to a proper HPI tool myself, I stuck WGU18G on my "merry go round" of regs to be run by my HPI guy

but it was only until now did I have a chance to get it run, when I finally got direct access to a HPI tool myself for Invacar research (my HPI guy was/is a busy man it would take him a good while to run regs some times)

its also to say thanks for the assistance you have given me in my Invacar thread  

(side note, it has no Import marker, but im not sure if that scheme/records go back to 1968!)

[bunglebus]

Thing is, how many people bothered to send off the logbook when they scrapped a car in pre-SORN days?

[Datsuncog]

Well, that's quite true - though I'm not taking the HPI check as gospel truth that the car's survived! But I'll certainly take the fact it hasn't been marked as scrapped to move it another increment along the 'maybe' line.

It's the ownership change well after the car was documented to have been acquired by Jimmy Cauty that particularly interests me. Now it could be that it was just a case of catching up on paperwork - or was it perhaps after the car had some major change recorded, such as a replacement engine after the Sweden debacle? I know DVLA aren't always very attentive - they've recorded a change of details as a change of ownership on me before.

[DodgeRover]

Maybe if they taxed it at the post office and they had to change the log book into their name or to a fixed address?

[treehugger]

7 hours ago, bunglebus said:

Thing is, how many people bothered to send off the logbook when they scrapped a car in pre-SORN days?

Crikey, how long ago was that? Didnt know that ever was the case.

[LightBulbFun]

56 minutes ago, Datsuncog said:

, such as a replacement engine after the Sweden debacle? 

Hmm interesting  

PM Inbound!

[Datsuncog]

On 11/7/2019 at 3:22 PM, DodgeRover said:

Maybe if they taxed it at the post office and they had to change the log book into their name or to a fixed address?

Possibly - but going by the available evidence Jimmy Cauty had owned WGU since late 1986/early 1987, and had been at the same address in Jeffreys Rd since 1979.

Pics of Drummond and Cauty posing with the car were published in the music press in mid-1987 to coincide with the JAMs' first releases, and this seems to be the first time it was documented in their possession.

It's a fair assumption though that there was still some tax on the car when it was bought - possibly even a full six or twelve months' worth - and Jimmy only changed the V5 logbook details over when it fell due again, in September 1987.

September '87 just seems to stand out since that was when WGU went overseas, and suffered total engine failure before arriving back to London on the back of an AA flatbed.

If this were a physical jigsaw, I think I'd put this piece carefully to the side - as it looks to be Something that might fit with Something Else, but I don't yet know what.

 

On 11/7/2019 at 4:07 PM, treehugger said:

On 11/7/2019 at 8:16 AM, bunglebus said:

Thing is, how many people bothered to send off the logbook when they scrapped a car in pre-SORN days?

Crikey, how long ago was that? Didnt know that ever was the case.

I think it was 1998 when the SORN thing came into force; I seem to remember not having to do it for my project Viva as I'd owned it since 1997.

Before then, if you wanted to take your car off the road you just cashed in the tax disc, parked it on private land and didn't drive it.

Obviously, if you were caught driving it or leaving it on the road, you'd be done for it...

[LightBulbFun]

another piece for the puzzle @Datsuncog  

 "date of last V5c issued: 6 october 1987"

very interesting to note that thats over a month after the last reported keeper change which either means the DVLA took a month to issue the new V5 after registering the keeper change, or perhaps someone was updated the details on the new V5 after they got keepership and new a V5 was subsequently issued with those updated details (ie say an address change etc)

 

[Pieman]

It's 2am and I have just read through all of this very strange yet brilliant thread.  Thankyou Datsuncog for your superb research and I don't know how I've not seen this thread before - some serious nerdery going on in here.

Seeing the banger racing links made me want to get involved too, as I have been a committed bangerack for many years and love researching the sport's history.  The story about the Timelord possibly being raced at Swaffham made me delve into my records even at this late hour - some even more hardcore bangeracks than me have managed to compile fairly comprehensive lists of any unusual or notable cars to be raced across the sport's history.

So I began reading back through the car-by-car lists for the 1990s, and eventually got to 1991, and look what I found...

If my fellow bangeracks' research is accurate, that makes the date it was raced 30 June 1991.  I will try and hunt for more info or pics - Paul Bickers has a Facebook account so may try and contact him there, or if that's too stalkerish I will contact the Bickers Action company.

(Edit) I also believe it was said above that the pics of the fucked Galaxie outside Cauty's house were taken in 1992?  If so, that means there were definitely two of them as that would have been after this one had been bangered by Bickers.

I know I'm not contributing much here but I hope it's a help.

[treehugger]

Was blitz mag going then? They may mention it if somebody has the right copy?

[Pieman]

Further research is in progress

[Pieman]

Update: I have contacted someone who may have the video of the above Swaffham meeting in his collection, he's going to see if he can dig it out and upload it for me.

[Pillock]

Holy crap. Tracking down* one of the involved parties and giving them a tough interview* is above and beyond!

This thread just keeps on giving.

[Pieman]

No pics from my contacts as yet so have put the word out on a couple of banger racing websites to see if anyone has any confirmation - if none is forthcoming I will call Bickers Action and try and talk to Paul.

[Datsuncog]

Hell's teeth, this has suddenly become a LOT more interesting...

So if the records show that Paul Bickers raced the Timelord (or at least, a 1968 Galaxie) as #284 at Swaffham in June 1991 - six months after the car's final public appearance filming the video for 3am Eternal in December 1990, possibly on a Bickers rig...

...then it does rather make me question the identity of the KLF liveried car apparently photographed by Jon Mace on Jimmy's drive in November 1991.

Unless there's been some major confusion about dates (and bear in mind there's a fair bit of contradiction between accounts), then this does seem to support the two cars theory.

I'd note also that the car on the drive seems to have fairly shonky DIY window tinting film applied, whereas the car in the video doesn't - and has possibly had the glass removed altogether?

Well done dude, this is certainly a massive help to unravelling what became of Ford Timelord! If footage exists and we can get a confirmation on the race date, then we could be close to cracking this one... or at least confirming Bill's assertion that there was more than one Timelord.

Phew!

 

[Dan_ZTT]

On 11/7/2019 at 1:32 AM, Datsuncog said:

Well now, that's most interesting!

I'll check through my timeline again, but I believe that by September 1987 the Ford was in Sweden, or about to leave for Sweden... I wonder whether Jimmy had failed to get the V5 in his name prior to this (my understanding was he'd bought WGU from Flinton Chalk in late '86/early '87) and had finally got the paperwork sorted just before this overseas jaunt?

And no record of scrapping. Interesting indeed.

Thanks so much for checking that! The mystery rumbles on...

 

Caught up on this thread last night, very much enjoyed, awesome work everyone

 

Just to add a little theory on the change of ownership thing, pretty much all touring bands are set up as a company so that they can handle the money side of things, this could be the car changing from personal ownership to being a company vehicle? I know the band probably wouldn't have cared about such things but it would have made sense from their accountants' point of view

 

[Pieman]

Paydirt!

Photo taken in the pits at Swaffham Raceway on 30th June 1991.  It certainly does look to be the same one - have contacted Paul Bickers himself and am awaiting a reply.

[quicksilver]

Very interesting stuff that lends credence to the two cars theory. If there was only one Timelord, how could Jimmy have intended to race it at the charity meet in '92 after Paul had already raced it the previous year? Either it survived Swaffham '91 and was put away for the '92 event but then found to be too far gone (but that doesn't fit with the photos), or more likely there was indeed a second (relatively) undamaged car sitting on Jimmy's drive and it was this one that was going to be raced in '92. The mystery deepens so let's hope Paul Bickers can shed some light on it.

FWIW, my theory is that the above car is the wrecked one used for the interior shots in the 3AM Eternal video and was kept by Bickers after filming finished, while the second was still sat at Trancentral more or less intact. Maybe both theories are true - one Timelord was banger raced and the other is still in storage somewhere. Which one was the original and where did the other come from though?

[Pieman]

I have sent the above black and white photos to a Yank nut who owns a very pristine replica Timelord which he built from another '68 Galaxie, and am going to try and get a positive ID on it.

The car pictured on the driveway is not the LTD that was also owned by the group Jesus Jones, is it?  If we could see the grille it would be a giveaway.

[Pieman]

Actually, having looked closely at the lettering on the car in the black and white photos...I think it's the same one.  I reckon someone may have their dates mixed up as to when the photos at Trancentral were taken.

[Datsuncog]

1 hour ago, Pieman said:

I have sent the above black and white photos to a Yank nut who owns a very pristine replica Timelord which he built from another '68 Galaxie, and am going to try and get a positive ID on it.

Fantastic stuff dude, thanks so much for all this digging you've been doing!

 

Quote

The car pictured on the driveway is not the LTD that was also owned by the group Jesus Jones, is it?  If we could see the grille it would be a giveaway.

Don't think so - the car on the driveway in the November 1991 shots seems to be a '68 Galaxie/Custom, like the Timelord...

While this is the arse end of the '71 LTD, JLE67K, after it was sold on to Simon Matthews of Jesus Jones.

The LTD also seems to have survived on the road since at least 1993, although no-one seems to know its eventual fate - Simon apparently lost track of it while touring with Jesus Jones, asking someone he'd left it with to sell it on his behalf, just to get it out of the way.

He mentioned in an interview that it was totally rotten underneath, so chances are it also ended its days on the oval.

Here's a pic of both cars together outside Transcentral in January 1989. From what I can uncover, Jimmy sold the LTD in spring 1989.

 

1 hour ago, Pieman said:

Actually, having looked closely at the lettering on the car in the black and white photos...I think it's the same one.  I reckon someone may have their dates mixed up as to when the photos at Trancentral were taken.

From what I can gather, the black and white driveway pics were taken by a freelance photographer with a connection to the band, Jon Mace, who took a series of snaps of Jimmy Cauty's  home at 55 Jeffreys Rd just before he moved out in November 1991. Since that ties in with an actual event I'd like to think there's a degree of accuracy, but that's not to say there's no room for confusion over dates somewhere...

I'd like to get this locked down, so I think you can guess where this is going now...

https://www.facebook.com/jonmacephotography/
 

According to some rumours, when Jimmy left London the '68 Galaxie on his drive (or, one of them) was moved to storage Norfolk.

I've heard through the grapevine from someone who claims to have viewed the car in 1993...

I agree the weathered lettering on the wing is broadly consistent across the various pics, both in the driveway shots and the Swaffham pic - though possibly the same stencil had been used, if there is credence in the two-cars theory? If there was an effort to make both cars look identical, it's possible some wet 'n' dry paper may have been used to rub away the same areas.

The plot thickens...

Incidentally, this is what Transcentral looks like today - the nearest house, with the blue door.

Seems the wall's been rebuilt since Jimmy moved out, at any rate.

[Pieman]

As someone else has just pointed out to me - look at the bottom of the doors and compare the damage below the Pyramid Blaster logo on the driveway pic and the Swaffham pic.  It's definitely the same car.

Now I need to get hold of Paul Bickers and find what happened to it after he raced it.  I strongly doubt it was put back at Trancentral with glass back in it and so on, so did he scrap it after racing it, or are the remains still out there somewhere?

[flat4alfa]

On 11/7/2019 at 4:07 PM, treehugger said:

Crikey, how long ago was that? Didnt know that ever was the case.

1998 was the shake-up year

Since around 2004 the DVLA deleted (or hide) the records when a scrap EOL marker has been issued

[flat4alfa]

1 hour ago, Pieman said:

Actually, having looked closely at the lettering on the car in the black and white photos...I think it's the same one.  I reckon someone may have their dates mixed up as to when the photos at Trancentral were taken.

I thought same

Look at the wob lift on the lower corner of front door.

 

[flat4alfa]

26 minutes ago, Pieman said:

As someone else has just pointed out to me - look at the bottom of the doors and compare the damage below the Pyramid Blaster logo on the driveway pic and the Swaffham pic. 

Oops sorry I was catching up