Date of First Registration

[keef]

I know DVLA can be a pain to deal with, so thought I'd ask if anyone on here knows the answer.

 

What exactly does the date of first registration relate to? The chassis number, the number plate? Something else?

 

I ask because one of my fleet was manufactured in 1974, but first registered in 1977. I had assumed it was because it is an ex RAF car, but I have documents with it's original "M" plate on. Just to muddy the waters it wears a private plate issued in the 1950s! I also have documents showing the current plate dating back to 1974.

[DSdriver]

The M plate would have been correct for a 1974 car. I would suggest that when the car was put onto the computer database someone hit the wrong key.

Four and seven are adjacent on the numbers keypad.

Has the car ever had a registration with a date letter appropriate for 1977?

[DodgeRover]

When the car was registered in '74 it was allocated an age related plate for some wierd reason. No idea why most people would have preferred the current one that would normally have been allocated.

[keef]

  On 25/11/2018 at 10:24, DSdriver said:

The M plate would have been correct for a 1974 car. I would suggest that when the car was put onto the computer database someone hit the wrong key.

Four and seven are adjacent on the numbers keypad.

Could be that. Very odd though.

 

  On 25/11/2018 at 10:24, DSdriver said:

Has the car ever had a registration with a date letter appropriate for 1977?

Not to my knowledge, but I wonder if it spent a while abroad, it would have been given a new reg on returning?

[keef]

  On 25/11/2018 at 11:09, DodgeRover said:

When the car was registered in '74 it was allocated an age related plate for some wierd reason. No idea why most people would have preferred the current one that would normally have been allocated.

Eh? Aren't all new cars allocated a age related plate when they are FIRST registered?

 

Did you mix your 4 and seven up?

[lesapandre]

74 - 77...is there an issue sometimes these things are inexplicable as its an admin glitch ? Still tax/MoT exempt? One scenario is it sat in a dealers for a few years - took a long time to shift or was kept in the showroom for sentimental reasons - they just liked it there?

[RayMK]

It was standard practice for cars/motorcycles permanently entering the UK for the first time from BFG (British Forces Germany) to be registered according to the entry date. The V5 would record the 'appoximate date of manufacture.'  I know this because my dad's 1966 Taunus 17M was registered ALM505H on entry in 1969 and my 1967 Peugeot moped became SKM26H on the same day (I rode it back to the UK from Rheindahlen to Nocton Hall, Lincs.)  The car was scrapped by a subsequent owner many years ago but my moped is in the garage.  This may have only applied to imports previously registered under the forces system in Germany but I don't know how they deal with them now.  Cars previously bought and registered in the UK would acquire a BFG registration when used during a German posting and revert to their original UK number on permanently returning to the UK.

[barrett]

When did it get its private plate? If it was back in 1977 then, that's why

[DodgeRover]

  On 25/11/2018 at 12:01, keef said:

Eh? Aren't all new cars allocated a age related plate when they are FIRST registered?

 

Did you mix your 4 and seven up?

Nope not prior to 83, there used to be an awful lot of newly registered Marina pickups that started life as a new shell and a written off saloon.

[keef]

  On 25/11/2018 at 12:12, lesapandre said:

74 - 77...is there an issue sometimes these things are inexplicable as its an admin glitch ? Still tax/MoT exempt? One scenario is it sat in a dealers for a few years - took a long time to shift or was kept in the showroom for sentimental reasons - they just liked it there?

No, it appears to have been registered on an M plate in 1974. Shortly after this it got a personalised plate and has worn this dateless plate ever since. The personalised plate was actually issued some time in the 1950s!

[keef]

  On 25/11/2018 at 13:42, RayMK said:

It was standard practice for cars/motorcycles permanently entering the UK for the first time from BFG (British Forces Germany) to be registered according to the entry date.

Yes, I initially thought this might be the reason the car wasn't registered till 1977, but as I say it appears to have had the "correct" M plate in 1974. Perhaps DVLA have lost the link from the original plate to the current Dateless) one?

[keef]

  On 25/11/2018 at 13:50, barrett said:

When did it get its private plate? If it was back in 1977 then, that's why

Yes, that would be logical, but it appears it got it's private plate in 1974.

[Momentary Lapse Of Reason]

Date of first registration is just that - the date that it was first registered on!

DVLC ,as was, used to put a current date registration of vehicles getting first registered or re-registered.

So a. say 1974 car being cast by the Armed Forces and registered as a civilian car in 1977 would get a 1977 registration.

Similarly cars that had been previously registered with B.A.O.R. , Channel Isles, I.O.M., etc would end up with a registration for the year that became UK registered not the year of the car's build.

 

In the 80's the policy changed so a vehicle must never wear a registration that made it appear younger than it was.

If an exported vehicles previous registration is known it will be reassigned that registration when re-imported. (however not fool proof)

 

I have two vehicles that got plate-raped in the 80's.

One is a 1960 re-registered on a D reg the other is a 1963 re-registered on a C reg, both re-registered by DVLA's local offices.

Both of them I did V888 on, so I know their original registrations and when it was changed etc.

 

If the OP wants he can do a V888 request

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/v888-request-by-an-individual-for-information-about-a-vehicle

State that you are looking for the registration history of the car and do not wish to know details of former keepers.

(Since GDPR DVLA have got grumpy about letting you know names and addresses of former keepers but they do give information like

"on the 32nd Julember 1767 registration changed from ABC123D to EFG456H"

[keef]

  On 25/11/2018 at 14:26, DodgeRover said:

Nope not prior to 83, there used to be an awful lot of newly registered Marina pickups that started life as a new shell and a written off saloon.

I think we are drifting further away from the original question/subject.

 

I don't think the car has ever been written off and as far as I know shares the original body.

[keef]

  On 25/11/2018 at 16:05, Momentary Lapse Of Reason said:

Date of first registration is just that - the date that it was first registered on!

--- snip ----

(Since GDPR DVLA have got grumpy about letting you know names and addresses of former keepers but they do give information like

"on the 32nd Julember 1767 registration changed from ABC123D to EFG456H"

I am only the fourth registerd keeper and the second keeper appears to be the first keeper, just under a business name, if that makes sense?

 

I wonder if the first reply is correct and that DVLA just typed a 4 rather than a 7? The current dateless plate probably doesn't help, but as that was issued to a then "M" registered car in 1974, you would think that would be picked up by someone by now?

 

I think I will try a FoI request on the date the plate changed as DVLA refuse to do one on the more general vehicle history request.

[DodgeRover]

  On 25/11/2018 at 16:07, keef said:

I think we are drifting further away from the original question/subject.

 

I don't think the car has ever been written off and as far as I know shares the original body.

The point I was trying to make was that something odd had happened, when it was registered in '77 the DVLC local office would normally have allocated a brand new registration number for that date so it should have been on an S not an M plate as that was the current number being issued. Normally they didn't care about the age of the vehicle everything got a 'new' reg number.

[keef]

  On 25/11/2018 at 17:12, DodgeRover said:

when it was registered in '77 the DVLC local office would normally have allocated a brand new registration number for that date so it should have been on an S not an M plate as that was the current number being issued.

It was registered in 1974, hence the "M" plate.

[Momentary Lapse Of Reason]

  On 25/11/2018 at 16:18, keef said:

 

I think I will try a FoI request on the date the plate changed as DVLA refuse to do one on the more general vehicle history request.

 

In a one make club I am a member of people have successfully got a V888 on more general history request answered since GDPR using the wording I put in my earlier reply.

(DVLA have been very hit or miss since GDPR but as they return your cheque uncashed if the particular clerk you get that time decides not to answer...)

[keef]

  On 25/11/2018 at 19:56, Momentary Lapse Of Reason said:

DVLA have been very hit or miss since GDPR

 

They are quick enough to insist we follow rules; they should have to do the same.

[DodgeRover]

  On 25/11/2018 at 17:20, keef said:

It was registered in 1974, hence the "M" plate.

Not if it says the date of first registration was '77?

[keef]

  On 25/11/2018 at 20:16, DodgeRover said:

Not if it says the date of first registration was '77?

Hence my original post.

[DodgeRover]

I'm not following but my take is it's a 74 car, not uk registered until '77, for some reason it's wearing an M plate not an S.

Does it have the line 'declared manufactured 1974' on the special notes section of the logbook?

 

Ah hang on I've noticed the last line of your original post so you have documentation it was in the UK in 74 and wearing the M plate?

[keef]

  On 25/11/2018 at 22:40, DodgeRover said:

I'm not following but my take is it's a 74 car, not uk registered until '77, for some reason it's wearing an M plate not an S.

No, dateless (1950s) plate!

 

  On 25/11/2018 at 22:40, DodgeRover said:

Does it have the line 'declared manufactured 1974' on the special notes section of the logbook?

No. New V5s, don't seem to have a "built in" field either. But comes up as such on DVLA website checker thing.

 

  On 25/11/2018 at 22:40, DodgeRover said:

Ah hang on I've noticed the last line of your original post so you have documentation it was in the UK in 74 and wearing the M plate?

Yes.

[keef]

As no one has answered my original question, can I ask if anyone on here has a personalised registration? What is the date of registration on the V5? Is it the date the car got the personalised plate?

[MorrisItalSLX]

Date of first registration is the date it was first registered, it should not change regardless of personalised plates or date of manufacture.

 

What I think has happened was your car was issued its M plate when it was purchased new, but it was only registered for the first time when the RAF sold it, hence date of first registration being in 1977.

[keef]

  On 26/11/2018 at 05:12, MorrisItalSLX said:

Date of first registration is the date it was first registered, it should not change regardless of personalised plates or date of manufacture.

Thanks for clarifying that. It makes sense as I couldn't see DVLA changing the date each time a plate was swapped, but ......

 

  On 26/11/2018 at 05:12, MorrisItalSLX said:

What I think has happened was your car was issued its M plate when it was purchased new, but it was only registered for the first time when the RAF sold it, hence date of first registration being in 1977.

Perfect sense; thanks.

 

I'll double check the invoices etc. I have to make sure the vanity plate wasn't on them any earlier than 1977. It is possible it wore it's personalised plate before being officially registered of course.